Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

[just-us-2]

ok, but what connects all that to "the Nicolatians" ?

how do i know any of that is the doctrine of the Nicolatians, and not the prosperity gospel? or idolization of charismatic gifts? or non-divinity of Christ? or humanistic ascendancy to divinity? or will-worship? or legalistic Judaizing? or agnosticism? or some odd gnosticism? or any of 1000 other errors?

how do you know one particular false teaching is 'doctrine of the Nicolatians' ?

I am putting together an explanation of that so be patient and you will see how it all fits. I just don't want to post something that isn't documented or explained well enough by conclusion of facts because we have an abundance of self-important self-proclaimed "Bible teachers" in here who like to show others how smart they are by asking irrelevant questions and making irrelevant assumptions and accusations. I do my best to give them nothing to attack.

 

[just-me]

ok, but what connects all that to "the Nicolatians" ?

how do i know any of that is the doctrine of the Nicolatians, and not the prosperity gospel? or idolization of charismatic gifts? or non-divinity of Christ? or humanistic ascendancy to divinity? or will-worship? or legalistic Judaizing? or agnosticism? or some odd gnosticism? or any of 1000 other errors?

how do you know one particular false teaching is 'doctrine of the Nicolatians' ?

Okay.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" denied the God given instructions to Israel, and separated themselves from Judah having their own king.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" adhered themselves to pagan practices known as the "doctrine of Balaam."
Fact. This could only be done by rejection and distortion of the word of God.
Fact. The "House of Ephraim" is completely scattered throughout the entire world without repentance.
Fact. This means that if there is no repentance there is no change in their false doctrine that influences the entire world by now.
Fact. The "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is in a New Testament church.
Fact. Pergamos has been infiltrated with both doctrines in relationship to the history of Ephraim's rebellion against God.

Conclusion. Both doctrines work in coordination with each other in that the law of God needs to be made void in the church in order to introduce the doctrine of Balaam which is the doctrine of compromising with ungodly practices within the church.

Fact. Jesus quorted the law to Satan three times out of the records of Deuteronomy, which is part of the law
Fact. Obviously the law has power because it is God's words.

Conclusion. Satan only has an avenue to infiltrate the church when just one part of God's word is distorted and/or rejected.

It is documented by others, that the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is the systematic removal of the law of God and distortion of scripture to allow Satan to sit in the midst of the congregation, and propagate His agenda instead of God's.

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." (Revelation 2:13)

Sound familiar? The church holds the faith but is seduced by false doctrine, and eventually adamantly practices the rejection of the law and proving its irrelevance by distortion of God's Word.

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate." (Revelation 2:14-15)

So within the ranks of the congregation, there are those who underhandedly distort and try to make void certain parts of God's word in order to deceive the church, and compel the masses to compromise the truth with falsehood.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" denied the God given instructions to Israel, and separated themselves from Judah having their own king.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" adhered themselves to pagan practices known as the "doctrine of Balaam."
Fact. This could only be done by rejection and distortion of the word of God.
Fact. The "House of Ephraim" is completely scattered throughout the entire world without repentance.
Fact. This means that if there is no repentance there is no change in their false doctrine that influences the entire world by now.
Fact. The "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is in a New Testament church.
Fact. Pergamos has been infiltrated with both doctrines in relationship to the history of Ephraim's rebellion against God.

Conclusion. Both doctrines work in coordination with each other in that the law of God needs to be made void in the church in order to introduce the doctrine of Balaam which is the doctrine of compromising with ungodly practices within the church.

Fact. Jesus quorted the law to Satan three times out of the records of Deuteronomy, which is part of the law
Fact. Obviously the law has power because it is God's words.

Conclusion. Satan only has an avenue to infiltrate the church when just one part of God's word is distorted and/or rejected.

It is documented by others, that the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is the systematic removal of the law of God and distortion of scripture to allow Satan to sit in the midst of the congregation, and propagate His agenda instead of God's.

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." (Revelation 2:13)

Sound familiar? The church holds the faith but is seduced by false doctrine, and eventually adamantly practices the rejection of the law and proving its irrelevance by distortion of God's Word.

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate." (Revelation 2:14-15)

So within the ranks of the congregation, there are those who underhandedly distort and try to make void certain parts of God's word in order to deceive the church, and compel the masses to compromise the truth with falsehood.

I knew it would not take long for this to become another law thread. You just could not resist could you.

You have no biblical proof that the nicolations taught what you think they tought, only conjecture, and a few non biblical sources.

why do you even bother. You can not answer the guys questions, just show some humility and be honest, and say you can not answer him biblical It is just what you believe.

is this so hard to do?

 

[just-me]

I have eternally-grateful on ignore just like Elin, and 13 others that like to debunk certain parts of God's word as relevant for born anew Christians. I didn't read your post eternally-grateful. It's better that way so arguments don't involuntarily and spontaneously happen. Read my signature.

 

[Elin]

I have eternally-grateful on ignore just like Elin, and 13 others that like to debunk certain parts of God's word as relevant for born anew Christians. I didn't read your post eternally-grateful. It's better that way so arguments don't involuntarily and spontaneously happen. Read my signature.

Sounds like lotsa' folks aren't buyin' what you're sellin'.

 

[Elin]

Okay.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" denied the God given instructions to Israel, and separated themselves from Judah having their own king.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" adhered themselves to pagan practices known as the "doctrine of Balaam."
Fact. This could only be done by rejection and distortion of the word of God.
Fact. The "House of Ephraim" is completely scattered throughout the entire world without repentance.
Fact. This means that if there is no repentance there is no change in their false doctrine that influences the entire world by now.
Fact. The "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is in a New Testament church.
Fact. Pergamos has been infiltrated with both doctrines in relationship to the history of Ephraim's rebellion against God.

Conclusion. Both doctrines work in coordination with each other in that the law of God needs to be made void in the church in order to introduce the doctrine of Balaam which is the doctrine of compromising with ungodly practices within the church.

Fact. Jesus quorted the law to Satan three times out of the records of Deuteronomy, which is part of the law
Fact. Obviously the law has power because it is God's words.

Conclusion. Satan only has an avenue to infiltrate the church when just one part of God's word is distorted and/or rejected.

It is documented by others, that the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is the systematic removal of the law of God and distortion of scripture to allow Satan to sit in the midst of the congregation, and propagate His agenda instead of God's.

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." (Revelation 2:13)

Sound familiar? The church holds the faith but is seduced by false doctrine, and eventually adamantly practices the rejection of the law and proving its irrelevance by distortion of God's Word.

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate." (Revelation 2:14-15)

So within the ranks of the congregation, there are those who underhandedly distort and try to make void certain parts of God's word in order to deceive the church, and compel the masses to compromise the truth with falsehood.

Good insight into the kind of exegetical leaps and faulty logic you use to arrive at your discreditation of Christianity in favor of your doctrine.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have eternally-grateful on ignore just like Elin, and 13 others that like to debunk certain parts of God's word as relevant for born anew Christians. I didn't read your post eternally-grateful. It's better that way so arguments don't involuntarily and spontaneously happen. Read my signature.

He has us on ignore ONLY because he does not wish to discuss scripture. Only his view of what scripture says.

Every time he opens a thread, it is about the law. and how we have gotten away from it (even though he can not prove it)

He does not realise. Paul says we are in a spiritual war. We do not have time to do all these ceremonies and traditions. we have a war to fight. But people like Just-me want to make things easier on themselves. ignore the war. and do these traditional and ceremonial aspects of the old law because it is easier than fighting a war.

even though as it has been shown to them over and over, The law is a schoolmaster ONLY TO LEAD US TO CHRIST. Once we have been led to Christ, THE LAW HAS DON IT JOB.

Now we fight the war against principalities and powers. who want to destroy us, and those around us, and keep others from Coming into the fight as christian soldiers to begin with (keep them headed to hell)

 

[just-us-2]

I knew it would not take long for this to become another law thread. You just could not resist could you.

You have no biblical proof that the nicolations taught what you think they tought, only conjecture, and a few non biblical sources.

why do you even bother. You can not answer the guys questions, just show some humility and be honest, and say you can not answer him biblical It is just what you believe.

is this so hard to do?

You are on my ignore list but for some reason, probably because I started to study this topic a few days ago, I decided to read your post to Just-me a few minutes ago. Quite possibly a mistake on my part. You are one of very few people on this earth who can make me want to yell and scream because of your attitude. Furthermore, I politely recommend that you not accuse anyone of not being humble/exhort them to be humble because you show none yourself.
He may not have all the answers and neither do I …or you! But I have done some research and have some answers. First of all, this is NOT another “law thread” – it is a thread meant to teach those with a heart desiring to be shaped by God to learn of the single greatest threat to REAL Christianity flourishing on the earth today. The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is usually thought of as something from the past but I assure you it is alive and well today – 4 August 2015 in the USA! (Not that you would believe me since you are so intelligent that you can accuse others of the same character you have - NO humility!) – it is a log in your own eye thing, ya know.
Anyway, I am going to post an explanation, as I said to posthuman, of how it fits together shortly. Unfortunately, I have an appointment in a half hour so it will have to wait until later today. But I assure you it is coming…and with Bible references.

 

[Elin]

He has us on ignore ONLY because he does not wish to discuss scripture. Only his view of what scripture says.

Every time he opens a thread, it is about the law. and how we have gotten away from it (even though he can not prove it)

He does not realise. Paul says we are in a spiritual war. We do not have time to do all these ceremonies and traditions. we have a war to fight. But people like Just-me want to make things easier on themselves. ignore the war. and do these traditional and ceremonial aspects of the old law because it is easier than fighting a war.

even though as it has been shown to them over and over, The law is a schoolmaster ONLY TO LEAD US TO CHRIST. Once we have been led to Christ, THE LAW HAS DON IT JOB.

Now we fight the war against principalities and powers. who want to destroy us, and those around us, and keep others from Coming into the fight as christian soldiers to begin with (keep them headed to hell)

It's not just the Judaizing. . .it goes further--in trying to discredit Christianity in order to establish his doctrine.

That is just bizarre.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are on my ignore list but for some reason, probably because I started to study this topic a few days ago, I decided to read your post to Just-me a few minutes ago. Quite possibly a mistake on my part. You are one of very few people on this earth who can make me want to yell and scream because of your attitude. Furthermore, I politely recommend that you not accuse anyone of not being humble/exhort them to be humble because you show none yourself.

Yes, you should have kept me on ignore. Because all you did was show your true self. You both have been screaming this law thing since you first came in here.

I opened this thread with the thought it would just be another law thread. only to see maybe it was not. So I kept my mind opened. because it seemed to be interesting. Only to have someone ask a question, and force Just-Me to us scripture to back his words (use scripture to test every spirit the word of God says) only to see you and your husband make excuses, and do EVERYTHING BUT use the word of God to prove your point, then when confronted further, my original suspicions were proven, as just me introduced the law into the conversation.

He may not have all the answers and neither do I …or you! But I have done some research and have some answers. First of all, this is NOT another “law thread” – it is a thread meant to teach those with a heart desiring to be shaped by God to learn of the single greatest threat to REAL Christianity flourishing on the earth today. The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is usually thought of as something from the past but I assure you it is alive and well today – 4 August 2015 in the USA! (Not that you would believe me since you are so intelligent that you can accuse others of the same character you have - NO humility!) – it is a log in your own eye thing, ya know.
Anyway, I am going to post an explanation, as I said to posthuman, of how it fits together shortly. Unfortunately, I have an appointment in a half hour so it will have to wait until later today. But I assure you it is coming…and with Bible references.

The greatest single threat to the church is PRIDE. The greatest single threat to Gods plan of salvation is pride. Not the nicolations. Not the house of Ephraim, Not the jews, Not the JW's or the mormons or the catholics. or ISLAM or any other things people conjure up in pride.

Paganism/legalism/licentiousness is all based on one thing PRIDE. They are all parts of the same lie of satan, and all are threats to Gods plan, and all keep people from knowing the true God of salvation.

 

[popeye]

I knew it would not take long for this to become another law thread. You just could not resist could you.

You have no biblical proof that the nicolations taught what you think they tought, only conjecture, and a few non biblical sources.

why do you even bother. You can not answer the guys questions, just show some humility and be honest, and say you can not answer him biblical It is just what you believe.

is this so hard to do?

Funny,I had composed a post,mentally,and was about to post it "Are you not placing the law above the Lord?"

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

here is what we know about the nicolaitans from scripture...

revelation 2:6..."Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

revelation 2:14-15..."But I have a few things against you, because you have there some who hold the teaching of Balaam, who kept teaching Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit acts of immorality. So you also have some who in the same way hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans."

basically we are not told very much at all about this particular heresy...

the few things we can glean about them is that they were known throughout the area of asia minor where john wrote to...they had made inroads into the church at pergamum...but they were rejected by the church at ephesus... the references to their 'teaching' in verse fifteen and their 'deeds' in verse six indicates that the basis for their condemnation as heretics was twofold...they taught a false doctrine which promoted sinful practices that God hated...

there is disagreement on the relationship between the teaching of balaam and the teaching of the nicolaitans... does not directly state a connection between the teaching of balaam and the teaching of the nicolaitans...in the strict sense it merely says that in the same way that some people in pergamum had fallen for the teaching of balaam there were also people there who had fallen for the teaching of the nicolaitans... albert barnes especially argued that the greek word 'kai' in verse fifteen expressly distinguishes between the two doctrine...

so that is all we know about the nicolaitans...everything else is either derived from extrabiblical sources or from speculation... God simply has not seen fit to tell us anything else about them in his word...

this is where we have to stop as theologians...however if we choose to pursue the question further as historians...the best extrabiblical sources on this issue are the writings of early christian teachers...

irenaeus indicated in his 'against heresies' that the nicolaitans were so named because they were followers of the deacon nicolas who was one of the seven deacons appointed in the book of acts... he also attributes the sins of balaam...namely idolatry and sexual immorality...to the nicolaitans...

hippolytus of rome in his 'refutation of all heresies' likewise accuses the nicolaitans of committing the acts john attributes to the teaching of balaam...and he directly accuses nicolas of being the originator of this heresy...

later on ephiphanius of salamis similarly attributed the heresy to nicolas himself and relates that he was married but attempted to live in celibacy and after a failure in this area attempted to suppress his shame by inventing a doctrine that daily sex was a condition for salvation...

clement of alexandria on the other hand stated in his 'stromata' that the nicolaitans misinterpreted the righteous teaching and defensible actions of nicolas as a license to commit sin and that nicolas himself was innocent of any false teaching... he goes into even more detail than the others and explains that the nicolaitans held to the absurd notion that they could be victorious over the flesh by abusing it through sexual immorality...

ignatius of antioch...who wrote earlier than any of the others...states categorically that the nicolaitans falsely called themselves by the name of nicolas...

the unanimous testimony of these ancient christian writers is that the nicolaitans were egregious practitioners of sexual immorality...which they justified doctrinally on the basis of bizarre twisting of apostolic teaching... on the question of the guilt or innocence of nicolas himself in this matter...regarding which the early christian writers disagree...i should note that the earliest writers...who would have had more firsthand knowledge of the situation and who would have been less given to speculation...all hold nicolas himself to be innocent of originating this teaching...

 

[Elin]

The greatest single threat to the church is PRIDE. The greatest single threat to Gods plan of salvation is pride. Not the nicolations. Not the house of Ephraim, Not the jews, Not the JW's or the mormons or the catholics. or ISLAM or any other things people conjure up in pride.

Yes, all this stuff is put forth as a smoke screen in an effort to hide the fact that
this judaizing doctrine is contrary to NT teaching, as well as much of the OT (e.g., here),
by trying to make it appear that Christianity is now wrong because of ancient heresies.

That Christianity is now wrong and discredited is a failed smokescreen to hide the fact that
this doctrine is contrary to the NT Scriptures.

 

[just-me]

This thread is to define, and detect the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes,” a doctrine that opens the door for pagan practices to infiltrate the New Testament church. Food for thought. This doctrine is not mentioned in the Old Testament, but the doctrine of Balaam is, so I think it is the same, for Revelation chapter 2 puts the two together.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Let the truth be revealed.

There are people who devoutly reject God's law to be a substantial part in the New Testament Church. Some of those people are members of CC. It is easy to see, even if you don't want to see, for they make themselves very well known by their scanning threads and posts, basically stalking to see if they can detect even a hint of another person ascribing to, and esteeming God's law as beneficial for the modern day New Testament church. They wait, ready to pounce, and when they see an opportunity to reject and start an argument, it is also easy to detect what is behind their presumptuous labeling against another.

They claim to be fulfilling the law by loving God and their neighbor, but reject what is still hanging on the law of love.

Which of the following definitions sounds more like a doctrine that Jesus Christ (God incarnate) would hate according to Revelation 2:15?

Does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that all of God's word (including God's law in the Torah) is a substantial part of what the New Testament church should live by?

Or does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that only part of God's word (minus God's law in the Torah) is the only thing that the New Testament church should live by?

It's high time for the true church to take notice, and detect where and how Revelation 2:13-15 fits into today's New Testament church.

And Jesus said to Satan; “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

 

[Elin]

In both passages a connection is made between eating meat sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality.

Yes, in the OT idolatry is spiritual whoredom.

 

[just-us-2]

Nicolaitans and Balaam

I knew it would not take long for this to become another law thread. You just could not resist could you.

You have no biblical proof that the nicolations taught what you think they tought, only conjecture, and a few non biblical sources.

why do you even bother. You can not answer the guys questions, just show some humility and be honest, and say you can not answer him biblical It is just what you believe.

is this so hard to do?

Note the mention of the Nicolaitans (Rev. 2:15) in close association with Balaam (Rev. 2:14). The two names Nicolaitans and Balaam, have very similar meanings in their respective languages: “Balaam is derived from two Hebrew words, בָּלַע [bālaʿ] (‘he swallows’) and עָם [ʿām] (‘people’). Interestingly, according to the derivative meanings of the names, the two groups troubling this church [Pergamos] were ‘swallowers of the people’ (i.e., the Balaamites) and ‘conquerors of the people’ (i.e., the Nicolaitans).” If the similar meaning of their names is significant and their mention in adjoining verses in the letter to Pergamos is intended to show a relationship, then it is thought that the licentious tendencies of the Nicolaitans might be understood in light of the doctrine of Balaam.

The key to the right understanding of it is given us at Rev. 2:14-15; where those “that hold the doctrine of Balaam” (Rev. 2:14) are evidently identical with those “that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans” (Rev. 2:15). We are here set upon the right track. . . . it may be observed that his name [Balaam], according to the best etymology, signifies “Destroyer of the people” ( . . . from בֶלַע [ḇelaʿ] and עָם [ʿām] ; and Νικόλαος [Nikolaos] (νικα῀ν τὸν λαόν [nikan ton laon] ) is no more than a Grecizing of this name . . . The Nicolaitans . . . are the Balaamites . . . those who in the New Dispensation repeated the sin of Balaam in the Old, and sought to overcome or destroy the people of God by the same temptations whereby Balaam had sought to overcome them before.

After Balaam, who was hired by the Moabite King Balaak (Num. 22:5, Deu. 23:4) to curse Israel failed in his task (Num. 24:1), he evidently counseled that Israel could be drawn into God’s disfavor by luring them into sexual relationship with the women of Moab (Num. 25:1; Num. 31:16) which would also entice them to worship foreign gods (Num. 25:2). If the Nicolaitan doctrine is a reflection of the doctrine of Balaam, the key may be intermarriage with the heathen leading to compromise and idolatrous worship. Peter mentions false teachers who are “following the way of Balaam” (2 Peter 2:15) It is said that “by covetousness” these teachers will exploit the church (2 Peter 2:3). They are said to be walking “according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness” (2 Peter 2:10) and having “eyes full of adultery” (2 Peter 2:14). This would accord with the libertine aspect of the Nicolaitans mentioned by the early witnesses. It is said that Balaam taught Balaak to influence the Israelites “to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality” (Rev. 2:14). How similar this is to the warning given the Gentiles by the Jerusalem council:
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. (Acts 15:19-20)

In both passages a connection is made between eating meat sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This thread is to define, and detect the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes,” a doctrine that opens the door for pagan practices to infiltrate the New Testament church. Food for thought. This doctrine is not mentioned in the Old Testament, but the doctrine of Balaam is, so I think it is the same, for Revelation chapter 2 puts the two together.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Let the truth be revealed.

There are people who devoutly reject God's law to be a substantial part in the New Testament Church. Some of those people are members of CC. It is easy to see, even if you don't want to see, for they make themselves very well known by their scanning threads and posts, basically stalking to see if they can detect even a hint of another person ascribing to, and esteeming God's law as beneficial for the modern day New Testament church. They wait, ready to pounce, and when they see an opportunity to reject and start an argument, it is also easy to detect what is behind their presumptuous labeling against another.

They claim to be fulfilling the law by loving God and their neighbor, but reject what is still hanging on the law of love.

Which of the following definitions sounds more like a doctrine that Jesus Christ (God incarnate) would hate according to Revelation 2:15?

Does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that all of God's word (including God's law in the Torah) is a substantial part of what the New Testament church should live by?

Or does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that only part of God's word (minus God's law in the Torah) is the only thing that the New Testament church should live by?

It's high time for the true church to take notice, and detect where and how Revelation 2:13-15 fits into today's New Testament church.

And Jesus said to Satan; “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

Where is your proof of this? prove this is what they taught, and this is not just YOUR OPINION.

and you wonder why people treat you the way they do. you continually make up things, and claim it is truth, yet you have NO BIBLICAL PROOF to back your claims.

 

[Elin]

Which of the following definitions sounds more like a doctrine that Jesus Christ (God incarnate) would hate according to Revelation 2:15?

Does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that all of God's word (including God's law in the Torah) is a substantial part of what the New Testament church should live by?

Or does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that only part of God's word (minus God's law in the Torah) is the only thing that the New Testament church should live by?

It's high time for the true church to take notice, and detect where and how Revelation 2:13-15 fits into today's New Testament church.

Those in the new covenant (Lk 22:20) are not subject to the Mosaic regulations which are no longer operative (Eph 2:15; Heb 7:18-19).

They are under the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Jas 2:8),
obedience to which is obedience to all of God's law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10).

You simply do not believe the NT word of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nicolaitans and Balaam



Note the mention of the Nicolaitans (Rev. 2:15) in close association with Balaam (Rev. 2:14). The two names Nicolaitans and Balaam, have very similar meanings in their respective languages: “Balaam is derived from two Hebrew words, בָּלַע [bālaʿ] (‘he swallows’) and עָם [ʿām] (‘people’). Interestingly, according to the derivative meanings of the names, the two groups troubling this church [Pergamos] were ‘swallowers of the people’ (i.e., the Balaamites) and ‘conquerors of the people’ (i.e., the Nicolaitans).” If the similar meaning of their names is significant and their mention in adjoining verses in the letter to Pergamos is intended to show a relationship, then it is thought that the licentious tendencies of the Nicolaitans might be understood in light of the doctrine of Balaam.

The key to the right understanding of it is given us at Rev. 2:14-15; where those “that hold the doctrine of Balaam” (Rev. 2:14) are evidently identical with those “that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans” (Rev. 2:15). We are here set upon the right track. . . . it may be observed that his name [Balaam], according to the best etymology, signifies “Destroyer of the people” ( . . . from בֶלַע [ḇelaʿ] and עָם [ʿām] ; and Νικόλαος [Nikolaos] (νικα῀ν τὸν λαόν [nikan ton laon] ) is no more than a Grecizing of this name . . . The Nicolaitans . . . are the Balaamites . . . those who in the New Dispensation repeated the sin of Balaam in the Old, and sought to overcome or destroy the people of God by the same temptations whereby Balaam had sought to overcome them before.

After Balaam, who was hired by the Moabite King Balaak (Num. 22:5, Deu. 23:4) to curse Israel failed in his task (Num. 24:1), he evidently counseled that Israel could be drawn into God’s disfavor by luring them into sexual relationship with the women of Moab (Num. 25:1; Num. 31:16) which would also entice them to worship foreign gods (Num. 25:2). If the Nicolaitan doctrine is a reflection of the doctrine of Balaam, the key may be intermarriage with the heathen leading to compromise and idolatrous worship. Peter mentions false teachers who are “following the way of Balaam” (2 Peter 2:15) It is said that “by covetousness” these teachers will exploit the church (2 Peter 2:3). They are said to be walking “according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness” (2 Peter 2:10) and having “eyes full of adultery” (2 Peter 2:14). This would accord with the libertine aspect of the Nicolaitans mentioned by the early witnesses. It is said that Balaam taught Balaak to influence the Israelites “to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality” (Rev. 2:14). How similar this is to the warning given the Gentiles by the Jerusalem council:
Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. (Acts 15:19-20)

In both passages a connection is made between eating meat sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality.

You have no proof. Just opinion. why can you not just admit it?

If they were both based on the same precept (paganism) why did not john just say it, why did he seperate the two? for he would not have to. Is God that foolish that he would do such a thing?

He mentions the two differing peoples to denote the people of purgamus were getting into trouble by following two different doctrines (truths) of two different people.

it would be foolish to say you are following this group who teach this, then you also follow that group. who follow the same thing..

 

[Elin]

In both passages a connection is made between eating meat sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality.

Yes, in the OT idolatry was spiritual whoredom.