Nicolaitanes philosophy of “systematic distortion” and negation of scripture.

[eternally-gratefull]

You are the one who said I was wrong and had no proof, though I gave scripture showing the comparison between Nicolaitanism and Balaam.

No, You did not.

You did all you always do. you gave a little but of scripture. And said it proves your point, yet it did not even come CLOSE to proving your point.

If scripture isn't good enough proof for you, I pity you. But I will no longer contend with someone who wants to argue and display the fruit exactly opposite of what a Christian should be bearing and tries to drag others into that same trap.

Scripture is great, and more than good enough.

Your trying to twist scripture, or say it says something it does not say, now that I have a problem with. As jesus did, as paul did. as every other God fearing person would.

 

[just-me]

Wow, the anti law people are on this thread big time, trying to instigate arguments, and trying to prove that the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” is not what they are actually doing by consistently posting that God's law no longer applies to the New Testament church. I haven't read them, but "we will know them by their fruits" because this is what always happens.

I don't follow them around, as they do me, refuting and arguing with them for trying to teach that God's instructions to Israel are void and abolished even though that doctrine isn't Biblical truth. They cite Paul on a regular basis, trying to prove their point, saying Paul said the law was abolished to the Ephesians. Paul didn't say what they are saying because they are misinterpreting scripture. Here is what Paul said about himself after his arrest;

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is it heresy to accept all of God's words (including what is written in the law of God) in truth and in Spirit?

Did Paul contradict himself to the Ephesians?

Did the author of Hebrews contradict Paul when the author is speaking of the physical temple of the Old Covenant?

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13) the word covenant, is an addition to the KJV

I don't accept the hypocritical Pharisaical interpretation of God's word any more than theirs.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you people have such a problem with what we know to be truth and you don't like it, why don't you just go away? Start a thread where you all can wallow in your deceptive doctrine and let the rest of us learn in a peaceful manner from one another? After all, it is obvious that your beliefs are radically different from mine and a few others'.

What you know to be truth, and what scripture says are two different things.

Maybe people want to help you?

 

[Elin]

Wow, the anti law people are on this thread big time, trying to instigate arguments, and trying to prove that the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” is not what they are actually doing by consistently posting that God's law no longer applies to the New Testament church.

The Mosaic regulations are no longer operative (Eph 2:15).

You either believe the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, or you don't.

You have amply demonstrated where you stand in that regard.

 

[just-us-2]

What you know to be truth, and what scripture says are two different things.

Maybe people want to help you?

Prove where what I believe to be truth is different than what the Bible says.

I assure you, if someone wants to "help" me, trying to make me look stupid (which I am not) and discredit my spiritual state by hatefully, arrogantly posting that I'm in essence "all wet" - they are taking the wrong approach!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow, the anti law people are on this thread big time, trying to instigate arguments, and trying to prove that the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” is not what they are actually doing by consistently posting that God's law no longer applies to the New Testament church. I haven't read them, but "we will know them by their fruits" because this is what always happens.

I don't follow them around, as they do me, refuting and arguing with them for trying to teach that God's instructions to Israel are void and abolished even though that doctrine isn't Biblical truth. They cite Paul on a regular basis, trying to prove their point, saying Paul said the law was abolished to the Ephesians. Paul didn't say what they are saying because they are misinterpreting scripture. Here is what Paul said about himself after his arrest;

"But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

Is it heresy to accept all of God's words (including what is written in the law of God) in truth and in Spirit?

Did Paul contradict himself to the Ephesians?

Did the author of Hebrews contradict Paul when the author is speaking of the physical temple of the Old Covenant?

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13) the word covenant, is an addition to the KJV

I don't accept the hypocritical Pharisaical interpretation of God's word any more than theirs.

We are in a war. When do you have time to do all those things of the law?

Why do you not worry more about serving others and helping god win these battles. and less time trying to make yourself look good in front of God.

God does not think you look good. when you place self over others. which is WHAT JUDIAZERS like yourself do!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Prove where what I believe to be truth is different than what the Bible says.

I assure you, if someone wants to "help" me, trying to make me look stupid (which I am not) and discredit my spiritual state by hatefully, arrogantly posting that I'm in essence "all wet" - they are taking the wrong approach!

well lets see.

You used a post which showed John said a church erred by following the teaching of ballam, Incuding sexual imorality (pagan ritual) and offering meat to Gods. And also a doctrine of the nicolations (which gave NO INDICATION of what this doctrine was, no mention of sexual immorality, or offering meat to Gods) and said it PROVED they both followed paganism. (even though in reality, it does no such thing, it would not even stand in a court of law as circumstancial evidence, yuo would be laughed out of court)

And now you get mad when someone confronts you on it.

we see who has the issue here, and it is not me.

I am not hating anything, I am pointing out a fact.

If your pride was not so deep. you could see the difference.

ALL WE HAVE DONE WAS ASK YOU TO PROVE YOUR POINT BIBLICALLY. You have yet to do it.

do you think if you did prove it, we would deny it? You do not know us very well at all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Mosaic regulations are no longer operative (Eph 2:15).

You either believe the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers, or you don't.

You have amply demonstrated where you stand in that regard.

funny how people will demand we follow the word. only when it seems to support them, yet when scripture does not support them, they deny it.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

This thread is to define, and detect the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes,” a doctrine that opens the door for pagan practices to infiltrate the New Testament church. Food for thought. This doctrine is not mentioned in the Old Testament, but the doctrine of Balaam is, so I think it is the same, for Revelation chapter 2 puts the two together.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Let the truth be revealed.

There are people who devoutly reject God's law to be a substantial part in the New Testament Church. Some of those people are members of CC. It is easy to see, even if you don't want to see, for they make themselves very well known by their scanning threads and posts, basically stalking to see if they can detect even a hint of another person ascribing to, and esteeming God's law as beneficial for the modern day New Testament church. They wait, ready to pounce, and when they see an opportunity to reject and start an argument, it is also easy to detect what is behind their presumptuous labeling against another.

They claim to be fulfilling the law by loving God and their neighbor, but reject what is still hanging on the law of love.

Which of the following definitions sounds more like a doctrine that Jesus Christ (God incarnate) would hate according to Revelation 2:15?

Does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that all of God's word (including God's law in the Torah) is a substantial part of what the New Testament church should live by?

Or does this hated doctrine Jesus talks against endorse that only part of God's word (minus God's law in the Torah) is the only thing that the New Testament church should live by?

It's high time for the true church to take notice, and detect where and how Revelation 2:13-15 fits into today's New Testament church.

And Jesus said to Satan; “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

there is nothing in scripture or in church history that implies that the nicolaitans had anything to do with the question of being torah observant or not...

if you want to draw a connection between modern antinomianism and ancient heresy you would be better off starting a thread on marcionism...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Biblical history reveals that the “House of Ephraim” never repented from their pagan practices obtained by the pagan practices of the Canaanites. As the centuries went by, as empires fell and rose, so did the populace of “the house of Ephraim” move westward. In short, these religious practices continued into European nations, Scandinavia via the Vikings, England via the Celts, and eventually the Americas, becoming the “melting pot” for all nationalities. So the evolution of religious practices continued, and changed throughout the entire world, and here we are in the “falling away” because we pick and choose what part of the Bible is irrelevant, and what parts complement religious facilities through misinterpretation and distortion which propagates division within the church. So the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” continues to flourish to date. This perverted false doctrine can be correctly identified if we have the foundational emphatic trust, that every word in the Bible is currently relevant for all people every moment of every day. Let no one deceive you by saying “those scriptures are for another people and don't apply to us who are under the New Covenant.”

actually most historical evidence points to the deported northern tribes moving eastward...not westward...

also the vikings and celts had no connection with the ancient israelites...this nothing is based mostly on -really- substandard ethnology... the celts were most likely descendants of gomer son of japheth who is named in genesis 10...and the vikings and other germanic and scandinavian peoples were most likely descendants of gomer's son ashkenaz who is mentioned in the same chapter...

 

[just-me]

The doctrine that Christ Jesus hates is obviously a false gospel that has removed the terms and conditions of salvation, covenant and atonement (remission of sins), replaced it with a cerebral belief system, identified with a religious label. If this doesn't correlate with what I have researched as to what the “doctrine of the Nicolaitanes” really is/was, I doubt that this (supposedly unknown) doctrine would be cited in scripture, because it wouldn't apply to the church today as it did to the church in Pergamos then. Put it together, there are 7 spirits of God and 7 angels for 7 churches. The angels and spirits are everlasting.

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:28)

The “New Covenant” demands a complete change of lifestyle once the law has been written upon our hearts.

Increased popularity of a false gospel will in no way make it acceptable to God or His Son Messiah. Even if every soul on earth put their faith in a false gospel, it wouldn't cause God to change His Word to comply with man's opinion. God Almighty is His Word and His Promise and He cannot change who He Is! The false gospel is a theology that pits Jesus (Grace) against the word of God (Torah) which includes His law. Those who lead the charge of the false gospel adamantly speak against the terms and conditions known correctly as the “Renewed Covenant” that includes the law, because it is supposed to be written on our hearts, not assumed that it just happens without knowing it.

“Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” (James 2:19)

The good news is that God, our Creator, is loving, merciful, and a forgiving Father, which is why “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.” (Psalm 51:17)

This love of the Father is clearly demonstrated in Jesus Christ as an offering for our souls to turn to God, to enter His Kingdom and turn away from transgressing against His Word.

“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” (2 Corinthians 11:4) (You might well have given your permission.)

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.” (Galatians 1:6-7)

 

[BarlyGurl]

Okay.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" denied the God given instructions to Israel, and separated themselves from Judah having their own king.
Fact. The "house of Ephraim" adhered themselves to pagan practices known as the "doctrine of Balaam."
Fact. This could only be done by rejection and distortion of the word of God.
Fact. The "House of Ephraim" is completely scattered throughout the entire world without repentance.
Fact. This means that if there is no repentance there is no change in their false doctrine that influences the entire world by now.
Fact. The "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is in a New Testament church.
Fact. Pergamos has been infiltrated with both doctrines in relationship to the history of Ephraim's rebellion against God.

Conclusion. Both doctrines work in coordination with each other in that the law of God needs to be made void in the church in order to introduce the doctrine of Balaam which is the doctrine of compromising with ungodly practices within the church.

Fact. Jesus quorted the law to Satan three times out of the records of Deuteronomy, which is part of the law
Fact. Obviously the law has power because it is God's words.

Conclusion. Satan only has an avenue to infiltrate the church when just one part of God's word is distorted and/or rejected.

It is documented by others, that the "doctrine of the Nicolaitanes" is the systematic removal of the law of God and distortion of scripture to allow Satan to sit in the midst of the congregation, and propagate His agenda instead of God's.

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth." (Revelation 2:13)

Sound familiar? The church holds the faith but is seduced by false doctrine, and eventually adamantly practices the rejection of the law and proving its irrelevance by distortion of God's Word.

"But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate." (Revelation 2:14-15)

So within the ranks of the congregation, there are those who underhandedly distort and try to make void certain parts of God's word in order to deceive the church, and compel the masses to compromise the truth with falsehood.

Like this example...

Matt.5:31"It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; 32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery

 

[just-us-2]

That's not what Paul did with the Judaizers. . .

Noting you are few, and those who differ are many (15 on ignore).

No, that is not what Paul did - nor did he take an arrogant know-it-all attitude toward them and call it trying to help them. Nor did he follow people around trying to create chaos and make others look foolish to stroke his own ego by thinking others saw him as wise.

And as for being few, it seems I have read somewhere about few finding the narrow way and strait gate - oh yeah, in Matthew 7 just before he talks about knowing people by their fruit and where those who THINK they are His say, "Lord, Lord! Didn't we prophesy in your name? Didn't we expel demons in your name? Didn't we perform many miracles in your name?" And He will say to them, "I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!'

What is really pathetic is that there are some people on cc who refuse to see their face in a glass as it really is and carry on day after day, belittling others and being nasty – showing their fruit for all to see – and will not admit they might be wrong on something. My spiritual walk is way too important to be led into the sin these people propagate. I have much better things to do with my time.

 

[just-me]

actually most historical evidence points to the deported northern tribes moving eastward...not westward...

also the vikings and celts had no connection with the ancient israelites...this nothing is based mostly on -really- substandard ethnology... the celts were most likely descendants of gomer son of japheth who is named in genesis 10...and the vikings and other germanic and scandinavian peoples were most likely descendants of gomer's son ashkenaz who is mentioned in the same chapter...

The "house of Ephraim" being the 10 tribes who never came back to Jerusalem with Ezra, and Nehemiah, are scattered throughout the world to date. They are mingled in with the peoples who settled those lands you cited. In prophecy, "Ephraim" is a label that includes that integration. The remnant who believe in the true gospel of Christ will be together with Judah.

written by Steven Collins..xyz Domain Names | Join Generation XYZ
There is evidence that Ephraim’s clans formed the backbone of the tribes which united to form the Parthian Empire, while one of the dominant tribes of the Sacae.

Scythians was the Massagetae (Manasseh). Even as the term “House of Israel” included the rest of the tribes of Israel who remained associated with Ephraim and Manasseh, the term “Sacae” was also applied to the tribes of Israel which were led by Ephraim and Manasseh (Parthia and Scythia) while in Asia. When the Scythians and Parthians migrated to Europe, the names “SAChse,” or “Saxons,” (“Saac’s sons“) remained upon them as they settled in the British Isles, but this name also remained on some related tribes who stayed on the mainland (i.e. “Saxony” in Germany and “Alsace” in France).
“The Saxons were descended from the ancient Sacae of Asia, and that in process of time they came to be called Saxons.” (Frederick Haberman, “Tracing our Ancestors”, 1930s, pg 130)

I didn't mean to get into all that, that is for another subject.

 

[just-me]

Like this example...

Matt.5:31"It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE'; 32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery

You have spiritual insight. God bless!!
reference to this post

 

[Elin]

Increased popularity of a false gospel will in no way make it acceptable to God or His Son Messiah.

That the Mosaic regulations are still operative is false gospel (Eph 2:15).

 

[Elin]

No, that is not what Paul did - nor did he take an arrogant know-it-all attitude toward them and call it trying to help them.

Both Jesus and Paul (Gal 5:12) could be excoriating in response to false doctrine.

 

[Elin]

Like this example...

Matt.5:31"It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';
32but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery

You have spiritual insight. God bless!!

Yes, it is a good example of Jesus setting aside OT law.

 

[LT]

This conversation turned into debating 'talking points 'rather quickly.

Honestly, the reason that the JWs are able to convert people is because it is truth mixed with lies. The issue with throwing it all out the window is... the modern Evangelical/Protestant/Charismatic church is just as apostate and distorted as the JWs.

The JWs have some things right, things that the Fundamentalists have wrong, which is why they can even convert people. People recognise the lies in their own beliefs when the JWs show them, and then they throw out the whole thing and accept the JW view... which is foolishness.
Satan is a crafty snake.

The SDA, the Mormons, the CoG, the CoC, the Calvinists, the Arminianists, the Charismatics, the Catholics, the Eastern Orthodox, the Coptics... They all have certain truths right, but then err... and grievously. Will God forgive these doctrinal mistakes? I pray He does.

They know not what they do.

The systematics are all heretics,
and the authoritarians are all prideful swine.
Where is the Truth in this sea of lies and cultural pride?
In Christ alone.

I don't have some doctrinal alternative to the lies everyone seems to accept as Truth,
But I just had to say it: that the arguments between the sects here prove the enemy has caused division,
and the pride of each side, thinking they alone are the one with clear view of Scripture, proves the Enemy as being active and able to manipulate culture.

The Truth is not some single sided object.
It is like a diamond, with many sides and angles,
gleaming with each change of focus.
But we all get too stagnant to recognise the glory of this.

 

[Least]

The passage in Revelation ch. 2, regarding the Nicolatians actually does tie to the original laws.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

The laws mentioned are the same laws that Paul and the Apostles gave to the gentile believers as recorded in Acts. Ch. 15

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Interesting study Just me and just us two,

I was looking at this subject a few years ago and the chapter, (Rev 2) is not difficult to understand. The chapter does not contain a lot of symbolic writing, it's clear-cut.

It starts with mentioning Jezebel and the doctrine that she taught. And that doctrine is contained in the OT. It's the reason God sent Elijah to confront the prophets of Baal and to turn the hearts of the people back to God. Why? Because of false teachings.

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

I don't think it's so much about "who," the nicolatians were/are, but the doctrine itself. Shown with the example of Jezebel, and Baalam. (As you showed early on in the message string.) It is absolutely biblical.


The doctrine's mentioned in all three cases in Rev 2, are the same doctrines.

"Baalam is mentioned three times in the NT, and each mention directly ties to the OT. It isn't possible to read the references and think that it's some new NT reference for new covenant believers. I haven't found any NT verses that mention an all new Balaam....

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

All three mentions in the book of Rev speak about the same doctrines, so I can see how the examples of Baalam would tie directly to the doctrine of the Nicolatians. The two laws mentioned in Revelation ch. 2, are found throughout the entire bible.