To the Godless American Church...

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Galatians2-20

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2013
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#21
How do we know your not just like many other false groups that don't really know the gospel but only seem to have a ministry to find fault in others...The Sda comes to mind. They have no clue about the truth, but attack every other group as if attacking others is the gospel.

If you don't mind..please explain the gospel, if you can?
The authentic gospel is not very complicated. In fact, it can be summed up in a single word: Reconciliation. See John 3:16 :)
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#22
The authentic gospel is not very complicated. In fact, it can be summed up in a single word: Reconciliation. See John 3:16 :)
Based on what? I don't think that one word is what we are called to preach?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#23
The authentic gospel is not very complicated. In fact, it can be summed up in a single word: Reconciliation. See John 3:16 :)
The authentic gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the all sufficient means of our salvation. Not complicated at all. :)
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#24
#GodlessAmericanChurch

The reason why the United States is on a downward spiral spiritually & morally is because the modern American Church, for the most part, has forgotten how to walk daily in the presence and personality of God.

Most professing Christians believe that because they have - at some point - repeated a prayer or answered an altar call, because they go to Church regularly, because they pray before meals & at bedtime, because they read their bible for a few minutes on occasion or daily, and / or because they listen to Christian radio or watch Christian television on a regular basis, that they are saved & everything is just fine. Some go so far as to believe that this particular brand of "salvation" can never be lost. The harsh reality is that, although they may be very religious, most may not be saved at all.

You see, salvation is not about what we think or what we do. Rather, salvation is a person named Jesus Christ and unless you live each day walking in intimate fellowship with Him and complete reliance in Him, you can not partake of His righteousness (salvation), His nature (sanctification), or His redemption (eternal life). [*1st Cor. 1:30]

The genuine gospel of Jesus Christ is not that He died for your sins so that you would not have to, as some believe & teach today. Rather, it is that He gave His life so that He may reside in you and you in Him. Basically, Jesus sacrificed His earthly life so that right relationship between God & man could be restored. You can not boast that Christ lives in you if you choose not to abide in Him. [*John, chapters 14 & 15]

This my friends, is why our nation is going to hell and the American Church, at this time, is powerless to stop it; American Christians are content with going through the motions, jumping through religious hoops, and doing what THEY THINK will please God. All of which is being performed through self effort, void of the presence and power of God. They do not take the time necessary to walk in and maintain an awareness of the presence of God so that they might immediately hear and respond to the will (heart) of God throughout each day, every day. Consistant abiding in Christ is an absolute necessity in order to operate in the power of God so that souls will be saved, bodies will be healed, and captives will be set free.

Is "churchianity" (various forms of religious activity that your church or denomination expects of you) your daily routine or is Christ someone you truly know and trust? Before you answer, keep in mind that to truly know Christ is to become like Him [*1st John 3:2].

My friends, for the authentic Christian, Christ is our very life! [*Col. 3:4]
If we refuse to speak out against what Jesus Christ and His Almighty Father hates (clearly identified in scripture), we are assisting the adversary, and assisting his deceptive tactics. This is the failure of the church. I started a thread to identify what is written to the church of Pergamus in Revelation 2:12-15, and even in CC, the identifying false doctrines were fought against with great fever. We are in the "falling away" and Jesus does know where Satan's set is. Thank you to the OP for expounding on this reality even further.

Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 2 Timothy 2:3
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#25
Judge much??????
According to scripture, both Jesus and the apostle Paul insist that christians must judge. However, they also insist that when we do, that we judge righteously. Everything in the OP is something that God has dealt with me about on a personal & corperate level.
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7:24
 
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#26
Good post.

Salvation can be described as a present manifest state of abiding in the Spirit of Christ whereby one is a doer of the will of God.

One whom is not saved is still walking according to their own passions and lusts and thus has not subjected themselves wholeheartedly to the grace of God.

One of the facets of modern false Christianity is the redefining of salvation to be a purely positional or forensic status which is totally disconnected from the condition of the heart. Thus those with filthy hearts can be convinced that they are saved simply because they went through the motions of "confess, trust and receive" where no wholehearted abiding in the Spirit of Jesus Christ is required.
What does Jesus hate?

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. (Malichi 1:3)
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Romans 9:13)

The fact is, we do wait for a spiritual inheritance. And many think about it at about the same level as Esau thought about his. The lesson could not be more applicable if it came up and bit us on the nose. If we treat God's provisions, His commandments, His will, His purpose and His promises with less than the fervor and appreciation for them that we ought to have, He will hold us accountable for having profaned them.
Have we sold out our birthright?

So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. (Revelation 2:15)
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#27
Thus if one is to walk up to practically any pastor and ask them...

"Is there any sin or sins that one must stop BEFORE God will grant forgiveness?"

The pastor will be troubled by that question because in their mind salvation is not related to HEARING AND DOING, rather salvation is a state of POSITIONAL or FORENSIC justification premised on a LEGAL EXCHANGE PROVISION which an individual is to TRUST IN (and there is a lot of theological deception behind this provision they believe in).

The pastor does not believe in a HEARING AND DOING MECHANIC which produces a transformation of heart whereby one is literally SAVED FROM SIN (saved from the service of evil). It is the service of evil which separates one from God and no reconciliation can occur whilst one remains a servant of evil. The pastors cannot comprehend this and thus that question above will produce all sorts of vague answers as they dance around it.

The true answer to that question is that ALL KNOWN SERVICE OF EVIL must stop BEFORE God will grant forgiveness. Thus there is no such thing as Christian fornicators, drunks, liars, thieves, pornography addicts etc. A true Christian is an individual who has been SET FREE FROM THE BONDAGE OF SIN through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ is only entered into through REPENTANCE.
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. Luke 9:223
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#28
Actually while he could have done it in a more loving way there is some truth in what he says. Many of you have even seen it here in the forums- the ppl who are Christian by title only who judge others who deem themselves righteous while others are unholy who think themselves the authority on scripture while actually being blind to its truth who use the bible as a weapon against others ect.

It isnt just here in the forums its everywhere, there is a reason the world sees Christianity as a joke and sees us as hypocrites as liars as judgmental bible thumpers. There is a great lack of love in the church as if many believers have forgotten what means to be a Christian. The mark of a true believer is love and this unseen mark is only visible by those who also bear this mark, you can tell the what from the tears the sheep from the wolves in sheep clothing by this mark. Jesus prophesied that in the end days love would wax cold and sadly he was right.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Matthew 7:16-20
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#29
Wow, you obviously misunderstood everything that I wrote. My letter is to encourage everyone to evaluate their life and their beliefs, to ask themselves "I am I really the Christian that I think I am?" and, if not, then "How do I get right with God?"

My letter is a call to biblical repentence. Not a letter of condemnation. It's too bad that people are so used to sugar coated messages today that they don't know the difference betweem conviction & condemnation.
The church that prohibited certain parts of God's word claiming this and that has been abolished, and been made void is the foundation of the "falling away." We see it all the time in CC when when even has the tenacity to mention the Pentateuch as being relevant for today's Christians.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#30
Based on what? I don't think that one word is what we are called to preach?
Read the following very carefully...

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
2Co 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
2Co 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Paul makes a clear reference to what he calls the "Ministry of Reconciliation" and then calls upon people "to be reconciled to God."

Jesus Christ was made to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God IN Him, therefore (AS A RESPONSE) we are to be workers together with God (ie. cooperate/hear and do) lest the grace of God is received in vain (ie. we not be made the righteousness of God in Him, we not be reconciled to God).

A parallel to this is Roman 8:1-4 which teaches the exact same thing...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Those whom are IN Christ Jesus are not under condemnation (they have been reconciled to God/sins forgiven) and the righteousness of the law is fulfilled IN them because they WALK after the Spirit, not after the flesh.

The Ministry of Reconciliation is a dynamic which, when one enters into it, one is truly cleansed of an evil heart and is truly made righteous. John wrote of the children of God...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

The righteous are those who DO righteousness and the DOING of righteousness is wrought through the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ (see Rom 8:2-4). Thus the children of God have the SEED (implanted word) and are thus BORN OF GOD.

The children of God are thus MANIFEST to the world by the very fact they they do not sin (ie. do not willfully engage in evil, do not rebel against God, do not walk in discordance with the known will of God).

Now go back and read 1Cor 5:8 - 1Cor 6:1.

Paul speaks of labouring (ie. being a DOER) in order to be accepted of God. Jesus clearly taught that it is the HEARERS AND DOERS whom are accepted. DOING is ACTION. DOING is DEEDS. DOING is CONDUCT. Hence...

Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

The modern false church does not want to hear this message. The modern church wants a mere 'confess, trust and receive" message whereby DOING is relegated to something subsequent to this thing they call salvation, thus they can proclaim that one can be a non-doer whilst saved.

Eternal life is only going to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory honour and immortality. Those whom DISOBEY THE TRUTH and OBEY UNRIGHTEOUSNESS will suffer indignation and wrath. The Bible plainly says that but so many people do not want to believe it which proves that so many people do not actually believe what the Bible teaches.

Paul wrote...

2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Which is the same as...

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Thus no wonder Paul would say...

2Co 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul pursuaded men knowing the terror of the Lord. Paul then clearly sums up his message...

2Co 5:12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. The issue is the heart, not mere outward appearance, an appearance which some glory in being absent of having a clean and pure heart.
2Co 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. Paul was a serious guy.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. This is why Jesus died. Jesus died for the express purpose that we no longer live for ourselves but instead live for Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Those whom are IN Christ are NEW CREATIONS. ALL THINGS have passed and and ALL thing are become new. This is why a child of God is MANIFEST to the world in that they do not sin (ie. willfully engage in evil, serve unrighteousness, rebel to God). The ROOT OF THE WILL has been purged of evil in we who have been born again. This does not mean we have all knowledge and understanding and are thus not prone to err in judgement or make a wrong decision, it simply means that our INTENT is pure, we are FAITHFUL to God.


2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Reconciliation (return to favour) is THROUGH Jesus Christ. God has accepted Jesus Christ as a good and faithful servant and we may too be accepted, as co-inheritors, if we ABIDE IN JESUS. Thus we forsake that which causes enmity between us and God (rebellion) and we YIELD to God through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. God is then willing to forgive us our past crimes if we do this and reckons our present faithfulness as righteousness (ie. God reckons a pure heart as righteousness despite past misconduct).

RECONCILIATION IS THE GOSPEL and the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ is an intrinsic aspect of the reconciliation process because we enter into the New Covenant via the blood of Jesus (the blood is like the signature of God) and we PARTAKE IN THE DEATH, BURIAL AND RESURRECTION (which is a picture of repentance and rebirth) by which we find favour again with God.

The modern false Gospel rips the core dynamic from the Gospel, the core dynamic which brings a total transformation, and replaces it with purely MENTAL NOTIONS of justification premised on an imaginary provision people think Jesus made on the cross.

Jesus did not die to effect a provision which cloaks ongoing wickedness. Jesus died as both an example (we have to die too) and as a sacrifice for sin in establishing the New Covenant. The blood of Jesus is what PURGES the living sacrifice (us) when we approach God via the Mercy Seat whereby we can stand before God with a clear conscience (read Heb 10 and 11).
 
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#31
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord. (Leviticus 19:17-18)

Proper love will rebuke sinful actions that are eliminated by the light of the Word of God.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#32
So its not as simple as one word... my point

And I see no reason to accept that your anymore godly than the folks you came here to attack...what evidence do you have that you represent God or speak for God?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#33
The church that prohibited certain parts of God's word claiming this and that has been abolished, and been made void is the foundation of the "falling away."
So very true.

The modern false church teaches that a "personal fulfillment of righteousness" has been abolished because they teach that "Jesus obeyed as a substitute." Thus one is induced to "trust in the substitute" and if they do that God "credits them with the substitutes righteousness."

The Bible teaches that it was the commandments contained in ordinances that were abolished (Eph 2:15) because the New Covenant is premised on a "new and living way" (Heb 10:20) by which the law is written internally upon the heart (Heb 10:16). Paul explained it as such...

2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The Ministration of Righteousness is THROUGH THE SPIRIT of God. Under the Old Covenant the governing of the people of Israel was via EXTERNAL LAW. The Old Covenant was outward in function although the truly faithfully were internally transformed (because faith always purified the heart under both Old and New Covenants), the New Covenant is purely inward in function as it deal exclusively with the heart, thus with the heart cleansed that which is outward will be clean also.

The false teachers, instead of teaching this, focus on a PROVISIONAL SALVATION premised on Jesus dying as a substitute. They have rejected the notion of reconciliation being premised on a REAL TRANSFORMATION wrought through means of the cross and replaced it with being premised on a LEGALITY which they think Jesus provided by means of the cross.

That is why they preach "confess, trust and receive" instead of "hear and do" like Jesus preached.

In their mind "hear and do" is ADDING TO THE PROVISION or ADDING TO THE FINISHED WORK OF JESUS and they cannot stomach such a thing. Their delusion totally neutralises their minds from being able to grasp the real Gospel message.
 
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Mitspa

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#34
Being ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own...having a form of godliness....you guys never change
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#35
Being ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own...having a form of godliness....you guys never change
Establishing one's own righteousness is to set up one's own standard of righteousness having rejected God's standard.

The Bible speaks of the righteousness of the law being fulfilled in those whom walk after the Spirit, ie. in other words it is the faithful whom are made the righteousness of God in Him.

How you can possible twist such a notion into meaning "establishing their own righteousness" is an incredible feat of mental gymnastics.


Paul spoke of the last day in which there would be those with a "form of godliness" in which he said...

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


The man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. Yet there are those with corrupt minds whom are reprobate concerning the faith who clearly reject the transformation of our character, a transformation unto the righteousness of God. There are those who will oppose such a thing and argue in favour of ongoing wickedness and a Jesus cloak which covers them in their wretched carnal state. What a tragedy.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#36
Being ignorant of Gods righteousness and going about to establish their own...having a form of godliness....you guys never change
Here is some context...

Rom 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Paul was speaking of the Jews who sought their righteousness in the law of Moses as opposed to seeking righteousness through faith (Gal 5:4-6).

Jesus Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone that believes. Jesus Christ is not the end of the requirement of righteousness, for the righteousness of the law is fullfilled is us whom WALK after the Spirit.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Mitspa, Is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you through you walking after the Spirit?

I know it is for me praise God.
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#37
Find it funny how many non-Americans have so much to say about the church here. Really Anerica is just becoming a scapegoat for people to look elsewhere, rather than their own back yard, so they don't have to own up to what's going on locally. Perhaps worry more about your local churches and less about churches 1000s of miles away.
My first thought when I read your post was, "How rude!" My second thought was that American churches ARE a mess and "professing Christians" who refuse to see that are making the situation worse. Then I looked at the profile of the man who started this thread, and he is in North Carolina -last time I checked it was still part of the USA.

In a nutshell attitudes like yours are part of the reason American churches are in the state they are.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#38
Quoting from the first translation into English (1599) Ephesians 2:15
"In abrogating through his flesh the hatred, that is, the Law of commandments which standeth in ordinances, for to make of twain one new man in himself, so making peace,"

Jesus held the enmity of regulations of commands in the commandments. It was namusa (customs) that were the traditions of the Pharisees. Jesus abolished the enmity, not His own Father's instructions. Jesus criticized the hypocritical Pharisees for these things that definitely were not His Father's commandments. Jesus removed the requirement for physical circumcision for the Gentiles. The epitome of the law is (not was) love, mercy, judgment and faith.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23:23)

Jesus didn't abolish His, or His own Father's instructions. (Malachi 3:6 and Hebrews 13:8) If God says He doesn't change, then Jesus doesn't either for they are ONE. Hebrews 13:8 is not in conflict with Hebrews 8:13.

As far as Hebrews 8:13 the context described in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is what is near to disappearing. It's the predisposition of man that breaks the law, not the standard of it. The physical has been replaced by the spiritual, and Paul says the law is spiritual, so that wasn't replaced. (Romans 7:14) If the law were abolished and made void, Paul would never have said it was holy, just and good. He probably wouldn't have mentioned it in its true form at all.

"for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah 31:34b) Old Testament is the atonement for sin, New Testament is putting sin into remission, as in "decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13b)

The conclusion: Therefore by the latter and the new, the first and old is taken away, for it could not be called new if it differed not from the old. And again that same is at length taken away: which is subject to corruption, and therefore imperfect.

Jesus destroyed the sins of the sinner's past, of those who believe. He didn't destroy the name of His father which is defined in the Torah that includs the law. If the law were abolished in it's original form, then there would be no standard to necessitate being "born again" according to John 3:7, and the doctrine of the nicolaitanes in Revelation 2:15 wouldn't apply if Ephesians 2:15 really said that the law was abolished (which it doesn't). If we cannot identify what Jesus hates, then I would agree that the standard of identification (the Torah) has also been abolished (which it hasn't).

Let's cease from making it a habit of using scripture to contradict other scriptures.
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own;
So that ye first know this, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of anyprivate interpretation:
(2 Peter 1:20) Joining
the Scripture and prophecy together enables one to distinguish true from false.
 
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Powemm

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#39
Lately I've been looking at something a little different.. "conversations".. instead of reading and jumping in without thinking.. I've been reading the contents.. the conversation as a whole... what I wonder most about it is... if the conversation as a whole were like that of grapes.."picked, juice pressed out, put in a cup for God to take a taste of".. what the flavor might be like..
 
Mar 3, 2013
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#40
You have got to be kidding..............you should be encouraging others to go, not fall away.
I would not encourage people to go to a church - there is so much false teaching because Christians don't make sure they are being taught truth like the Bereans in Acts. I would speak to them myself instead of shoving them off to a church to minister to them, most of which preach a "greasy grace" where we have no responsibility once we are "saved."