Question for End Times' believers:

[atwhatcost]

I've seen many people on here who believe in the modern version of End Times events. I've noticed something odd though. Absolutely no one agrees with each other. Odder still, no one agrees with each others yet still pull out the same verses to prove beliefs that don't match other End Timer beliefs using the same exact verses.

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

 

[thebesttrees]

I've seen many people on here who believe in the modern version of End Times events. I've noticed something odd though. Absolutely no one agrees with each other. Odder still, no one agrees with each others yet still pull out the same verses to prove beliefs that don't match other End Timer beliefs using the same exact verses.

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

Please explain the modern version in a few words so we have a basis to go on.

 

[Willie-T]

Please explain the modern version in a few words so we have a basis to go on.

That is a very reasonable request. I was wondering the same thing, too.

No one should be asked to defend what they may not believe.

 

[just-me]

I've seen many people on here who believe in the modern version of End Times events. I've noticed something odd though. Absolutely no one agrees with each other. Odder still, no one agrees with each others yet still pull out the same verses to prove beliefs that don't match other End Timer beliefs using the same exact verses.

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

Kinda crazy ain't it? When will we ever learn that there's only one answer and no one knows the answer for the scripture says so. All we are told is to watch for the signs, and lo and behold, they are here but very few people talk about that in comparison. It's like "guess what? and the answer is; what? You know what? Who's "what." No that's "who." What?

 

[dcontroversal]

I can only answer for myself.....I stood and dogmatically defended the immanent return of Christ because

1. The men I respected all taught and believed it
2. It was what I was taught growing up

Then I started studying the bible, went to a seminary that taught how to use the tools available to study the bible and then began to see holes in what I had always been taught....after spending about 30 to 60 hours a week and 16-18 semester hours of study for 3 years I totally changed my mind on the 2nd coming to my current belief (wrote a book on the subject) and have come to the following conclusion on why there is disagreement...

1. Many cannot admit to truth as they will have to admit error
2. They will have to admit that their great grand daddy was wrong or another family member or beloved pastor
3. They have to reject certain truths that are not easily understood based upon a lack of knowledge
4. A lack of understanding concerning the words saint, elect, coming as well as a few other words
5. A lack of understanding concerning who Jesus is actually instructing in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13
6. Confusion sowed by those who have no clue and or a partial understanding of the truth

etc.......

The book I wrote is on my blog in CC and before anyone writes off what I believe it would only be fair to read the book 212 pages and then judge where I stand.....My stance is post tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering and change at the 7th trump of Revelation.

 

[atwhatcost]

Please explain the modern version in a few words so we have a basis to go on.

Not enough into this to remember all the flavors, and this site seems to be about tolerating all of everyone, but it does seem to give a good list of the flavors of modern-versions. (It really can't be done in a few words though. lol)

 

[atwhatcost]

That is a very reasonable request. I was wondering the same thing, too.

No one should be asked to defend what they may not believe.

Absolutely agree, but I'm not asking a defense. I'm asking how come no one ever seems to notice how many are disagreeing and why they think they're right -- if they think they're right. (And almost everyone thinks they're right, even after changing their minds. lol)

Really, it seems like it's doctrine to so many, and doctrine really ought to be fairly consistent around all Christians. Not always completely agreeing, but at least in the same ball park. End Times is so far removed from the same ball park, it feels closer to requiring Inter-stellar Baseball League regs.

So, I'm asking the first question to an obvious problem -- how do you know? (Not to be answered by "The Lord told me," because we all know God doesn't tell different things to different people on the same subject.)

 

[atwhatcost]

I can only answer for myself.....I stood and dogmatically defended the immanent return of Christ because

1. The men I respected all taught and believed it
2. It was what I was taught growing up

Then I started studying the bible, went to a seminary that taught how to use the tools available to study the bible and then began to see holes in what I had always been taught....after spending about 30 to 60 hours a week and 16-18 semester hours of study for 3 years I totally changed my mind on the 2nd coming to my current belief (wrote a book on the subject) and have come to the following conclusion on why there is disagreement...

1. Many cannot admit to truth as they will have to admit error
2. They will have to admit that their great grand daddy was wrong or another family member or beloved pastor
3. They have to reject certain truths that are not easily understood based upon a lack of knowledge
4. A lack of understanding concerning the words saint, elect, coming as well as a few other words
5. A lack of understanding concerning who Jesus is actually instructing in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13
6. Confusion sowed by those who have no clue and or a partial understanding of the truth

etc.......

The book I wrote is on my blog in CC and before anyone writes off what I believe it would only be fair to read the book 212 pages and then judge where I stand.....My stance is post tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering and change at the 7th trump of Revelation.

Problem. You didn't take it from scratch when you stopped believing what you used to believe. Somewhere in there was "some of it's right though." And from that, got to say, a one-man-belief-system usually isn't worth having. It's possible. (Athanasius did it.) It's highly unlikely.

So why is everyone else wrong?

 

[Willie-T]

I can only answer for myself.....I stood and dogmatically defended the immanent return of Christ because

1. The men I respected all taught and believed it
2. It was what I was taught growing up

Then I started studying the bible, went to a seminary that taught how to use the tools available to study the bible and then began to see holes in what I had always been taught....after spending about 30 to 60 hours a week and 16-18 semester hours of study for 3 years I totally changed my mind on the 2nd coming to my current belief (wrote a book on the subject) and have come to the following conclusion on why there is disagreement...

1. Many cannot admit to truth as they will have to admit error
2. They will have to admit that their great grand daddy was wrong or another family member or beloved pastor
3. They have to reject certain truths that are not easily understood based upon a lack of knowledge
4. A lack of understanding concerning the words saint, elect, coming as well as a few other words
5. A lack of understanding concerning who Jesus is actually instructing in Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13
6. Confusion sowed by those who have no clue and or a partial understanding of the truth

etc.......

The book I wrote is on my blog in CC and before anyone writes off what I believe it would only be fair to read the book 212 pages and then judge where I stand.....My stance is post tribulation/pre-wrath ingathering and change at the 7th trump of Revelation.

Interesting book, by the way. I haven't read it all yet, but I do appreciate that you used the "old" standard of double-spacing after your sentences. It makes it so much easier to read... I usually have to <EDIT> book downloads to change them to such a format.

 

[dcontroversal]

Problem. You didn't take it from scratch when you stopped believing what you used to believe. Somewhere in there was "some of it's right though." And from that, got to say, a one-man-belief-system usually isn't worth having. It's possible. (Athanasius did it.) It's highly unlikely.

So why is everyone else wrong?

Actually this assessment is not true....I completely change my mind from one belief to an entirely different stance...I chunked everything I had thought was correct and actually studied it for myself...You assume I kept some of what I had believed and in all honesty that is not the case....as far as a one man belief....after I had changed my mind and wrote the book because of being sick of the two answers always given to defend the immanent return the Lord has brought numerous people into my life that have by study come to the same conclusions...I will say there is an absolute truth concerning the 2nd Coming of Christ and the reason there are numerous flavors is because some are not honest with the scriptures......another thing I will say and everyone who actually knows me will tell you this is true....I am open to learning and instruction and if by scripture in context you can prove me in error I will admit error and embrace the truth...go read the book and then judge!

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting book, by the way. I haven't read it all yet, but I do appreciate that you used the "old" standard of double-spacing after your sentences. It makes it so much easier to read... I usually have to <EDIT> book downloads to change them to such a format.

Thanks Willie...I wrote that in 2007 and probably could add 5 chapters of info to support what is there....I wanted to lay a foundation first and then use that foundation to interpret the scriptures...thanks for the post brother!

 

[atwhatcost]

Actually this assessment is not true....I completely change my mind from one belief to an entirely different stance...I chunked everything I had thought was correct and actually studied it for myself...You assume I kept some of what I had believed and in all honesty that is not the case....as far as a one man belief....after I had changed my mind and wrote the book because of being sick of the two answers always given to defend the immanent return the Lord has brought numerous people into my life that have by study come to the same conclusions...I will say there is an absolute truth concerning the 2nd Coming of Christ and the reason there are numerous flavors is because some are not honest with the scriptures......another thing I will say and everyone who actually knows me will tell you this is true....I am open to learning and instruction and if by scripture in context you can prove me in error I will admit error and embrace the truth...go read the book and then judge!

You haven't answered either questions. I'm not really interested in learning the flavors of what others believe about end times. But because there are so many flavors, I'm asking:

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

 

[oldthennew]

they are good questions, Lynn,

on this 'forum', there are so many 'view-points' about 'end-time prophecy', and the 'members' are
coming from a variety of theological backgrounds so their opinions and understanding will be very diverse...
and just personally, because it is very difficult to find any 'common-ground' on this particular subject,
we avoid it......

also we have found that when we are moved to answer others in general, that an attitude of
'I am right and he is wrong' should never be present...but a desire to hear and understand
and hopefully share in another's experiences so that we may find some kind of 'common ground' of love,
this should be our objective...
even if we don't agree with someone else's interpretation and understanding, we can respect them and honor
their walk and sincerity....because it's THE WALK that is all important in our lives.
in our hearts, we always pray that we will all come together eventually down the way and come into
The Unity of The Faith.....we are looking forward to this with all of our hearts.....

that over-powering desire for Brethren in very, very, powerful and the excitement we feel when we do find
that 'common-ground' is like the ointment dripping down Aaron's beard....

sometimes this isn't apparent, but if the heart's intent is striving for pureness in Christ and love of
the brethren, then peace will eventually come into our hearts, here a little, there a little.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Yea I have noticed this. Seems to me the misinterpretations arise from two sources, the denominations and Bible commentaries (remember, the scribes are all liars it is written.)

There is no private interpretation of the prophecies, they are written plainly. Therefore to rectify this, all one must do is read the Bible as it is written.

2 Peter 1:20-21


[SUP]20 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[PopClick]

I don't mind if I don't understand the end times. I'm trying to work on other things in my life, and I've never held any particular views of what I think will happen. Que sera sera?

(But eschatology is a fun word, so I never miss a chance to say it. Eschatology eschatology esch... never mind.)

 

[valiant]

Actually this assessment is not true....I completely change my mind from one belief to an entirely different stance...I chunked everything I had thought was correct and actually studied it for myself...You assume I kept some of what I had believed and in all honesty that is not the case....as far as a one man belief....after I had changed my mind and wrote the book because of being sick of the two answers always given to defend the immanent return the Lord has brought numerous people into my life that have by study come to the same conclusions...I will say there is an absolute truth concerning the 2nd Coming of Christ and the reason there are numerous flavors is because some are not honest with the scriptures......another thing I will say and everyone who actually knows me will tell you this is true....I am open to learning and instruction and if by scripture in context you can prove me in error I will admit error and embrace the truth...go read the book and then judge!

The absolute truth about the second coming of Christ is that it will occur at the end of time, and at the end of this age, in order to sum up all things and result in the everlasting heavenly kingdom. Anything beyond that is fantasy.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I've seen many people on here who believe in the modern version of End Times events. I've noticed something odd though. Absolutely no one agrees with each other. Odder still, no one agrees with each others yet still pull out the same verses to prove beliefs that don't match other End Timer beliefs using the same exact verses.

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

1. Yes, I've noticed it and not just in relation to end-times events. IOW, people here seem to disagree on just about everything.

2. In my opinion which is based upon 27 years of observation, I'd say that a primary problem is that many people seem to have no understanding of the Old Testament and they therefore cannot properly understand the New Testament because the New Testament is a fulfillment of that which had been foretold in the Old Testament. For example, look at the very first verse of the New Testament:

"The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham." (Matthew 1:1)

If somebody doesn't understand that Jesus Christ is the prophesied "son" or "seed of Abraham" and the prophesied "son of David" and if somebody doesn't understand what prophecies were actually made in relation to the same, then they're starting off on the wrong foot beginning with the very first verse of the New Testament.

 

[valiant]

Actually this assessment is not true....I completely change my mind from one belief to an entirely different stance...I chunked everything I had thought was correct and actually studied it for myself...You assume I kept some of what I had believed and in all honesty that is not the case....as far as a one man belief....after I had changed my mind and wrote the book because of being sick of the two answers always given to defend the immanent return the Lord has brought numerous people into my life that have by study come to the same conclusions...I will say there is an absolute truth concerning the 2nd Coming of Christ and the reason there are numerous flavors is because some are not honest with the scriptures......another thing I will say and everyone who actually knows me will tell you this is true....I am open to learning and instruction and if by scripture in context you can prove me in error I will admit error and embrace the truth...go read the book and then judge!

LOL no offence but I can count on the fingers of 257 hands the number of posts like yours where everyone else was not honest with the Scriptures, and the submitter had rethought his view with an 'open mind' and was now convinced he was correct and had subsequently met people who agreed with them. The problem is that they still disagreed with the 1285 others who done the same thing with an open mind

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I've seen many people on here who believe in the modern version of End Times events. I've noticed something odd though. Absolutely no one agrees with each other. Odder still, no one agrees with each others yet still pull out the same verses to prove beliefs that don't match other End Timer beliefs using the same exact verses.

So, here are my questions:
1. Have you noticed that too?
2. How do you rectify it? Everyone else is wrong? Are you Athanasius against the world? Or are you Joseph Smith against the world?

Hello atwhatcost
I have noticed it too and I think some people are steeped in man-made traditions and some are still learning to renew their minds through the experiences that they see but as far as I know about correcting is to say that scriptures should harmonize.

The scriptures that someone might use should be harmonized with the scriptures the other person uses.

But it seems like when the scriptures are harmonized some people are still not going to let the WORD of GOD get in the way of what they believe.

 

[notuptome]

I have noticed a lot of things here on CC. I have noticed that many of them cannot be reconciled with scripture.

Many of the problems encountered here on CC stem from an incorrect knowledge of Christ. I have no problem with being against the world. I cannot afford to be against Christ.

Let God be true and every man by comparison a liar.

For the cause of Christ
Roger