Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

[dcontroversal]

I think you are talking about our bodies have not been glorified yet but the change took place in the spirit and sealed immediately.

All the work you did would not earn salvation.

Harmonize.

He believes in a working for salvation that he does not currently possess...in his mind salvation is only a mental assurance and eternal life is not yet given even though the Greek and many verse give it as a present reality based upon faith.....

 

[KennethC]

I think you are talking about our bodies have not been glorified yet but the change took place in the spirit and sealed immediately.

All the work you did would not earn salvation.

Harmonize.

Nobody is talking about earning salvation and that is the bad argument that OSASers use when they run out of defenses.

It is about continuing in the faith, and Apostle Paul says in more then one place that those who do not continue in the faith do not end up with eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So your answer is yes, that two people engaged and stay engaged in a same sex marriage is saved ???

If that is the case then you just made what God called an abomination acceptable, and turned the the gospel message into accepting lewdness that in Jude says is wrong.

Nope. Unless that person did not change in any area of their lives, and continued to live in complete rebelion ( which you did not ask) your wrong.

You telling me those people. who stopped all of these sins, who started actually helping people. and serving people in need, WHo saw a change in their lives in many areas because they striuggle with one sin?
again, if that is true, no one is saved, period.

 

[KennethC]

No it could not be no Unless that included any sin, not just one particular sin.

Many people who get saved stop many sins, but continue to struggle with certain sins until they get more mature, according to your question. Non of those people are saved.

It says people who lives like the world have not been saved, it does not say a person who struggles with one sin is not saved.

Paul called the corinthian church, who struggled with sexual sin and even practiced it, brothers and sisters in Christ, Did paul lie?

No what Paul said is if there is anybody among you named a brother who is walking in sexual immorality, if they refuse to give up those ways they are to be shunned/cast out from the Church.

 

[KennethC]

Nope. Unless that person did not change in any area of their lives, and continued to live in complete rebelion ( which you did not ask) your wrong.

You telling me those people. who stopped all of these sins, who started actually helping people. and serving people in need, WHo saw a change in their lives in many areas because they striuggle with one sin?
again, if that is true, no one is saved, period.

Continuing to stay in those sinful way is rebellion !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nobody is talking about earning salvation and that is the bad argument that OSASers use when they run out of defenses.

It is about continuing in the faith, and Apostle Paul says in more then one place that those who do not continue in the faith do not end up with eternal life.

So we have this condition (which i highlighted in bold) which we must do to be saved, but we are not earning our salvation by doing this condition?

Can yuo please explain this to me. for I can not see it.

Again, I am not trying to argue, I am trying to get you to see why I say what I say about what you teach. How can I say your not making a condition to earn salvation, when you just gave a condition (work)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Continuing to stay in those sinful way is rebellion !!!

You continue in sin every day, if you deny it, you are deceived. I continue in a sin every day, if I deny it, I am decieved.

What makes you worthy, and them not? Your talking ONE SIN, not a lifestyle of sin.. there is a huge difference

 

[KennethC]

So we have this condition (which i highlighted in bold) which we must do to be saved, but we are not earning our salvation by doing this condition?

Can yuo please explain this to me. for I can not see it.

Again, I am not trying to argue, I am trying to get you to see why I say what I say about what you teach. How can I say your not making a condition to earn salvation, when you just gave a condition (work)

You can not earn something that comes from a true faith in the Lord driven by the Holy Spirit, for the fruit and works that we do are not of our own but of the Lord who works in and through us.

This is why we are told clearly by the Lord we will know the saved from the false, because of their actions that will be done that are driven by the Holy Spirit Himself. You can not earn what He is the one doing the work in and through us !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No what Paul said is if there is anybody among you named a brother who is walking in sexual immorality, if they refuse to give up those ways they are to be shunned/cast out from the Church.

Yep. and they should be. And in my church, after a certain time, and counseling, that is what we do (if it comes to that, we fallow the biblical form of discipline)

It does not mean they are not saved, because paul also corrected them when the person repented, and they refused to allow him bnack as if nothing happened.

He still called them brothers and sisters. Most of them were practicing sexual sin, His point was one of their members was practicing a sin not even the heathen would stand up to sleeping with a fathers wife) thats why got him so angry..

 

[dcontroversal]

So we have this condition (which i highlighted in bold) which we must do to be saved, but we are not earning our salvation by doing this condition?

Can yuo please explain this to me. for I can not see it.

Again, I am not trying to argue, I am trying to get you to see why I say what I say about what you teach. How can I say your not making a condition to earn salvation, when you just gave a condition (work)

That is exactly what he teaches.....a working for salvation which is not gained until the end and is based upon your work and continuance in the faith......which is what OLAL teach.....Once LOST ALWAYS LOST based upon their heretical dogma that they spew!

 

[dcontroversal]

Yep. and they should be. And in my church, after a certain time, and counseling, that is what we do (if it comes to that, we fallow the biblical form of discipline)

It does not mean they are not saved, because paul also corrected them when the person repented, and they refused to allow him bnack as if nothing happened.

He still called them brothers and sisters. Most of them were practicing sexual sin, His point was one of their members was practicing a sin not even the heathen would stand up to sleeping with a fathers wife) thats why got him so angry..

No doubt...cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH that the SPIRIT may be saved in the day of the Christ...something that he leaves off because it contradicts his loss of salvation dogma

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can not earn something that comes from a true faith in the Lord driven by the Holy Spirit, for the fruit and works that we do are not of our own but of the Lord who works in and through us.

Yes, But the bible says all who are saved WILL DO THESE WORKS.. so whats your problem? your claiming we can do them and still lose salvation

This is why we are told clearly by the Lord we will know the saved from the false, because of their actions that will be done that are driven by the Holy Spirit Himself. You can not earn what He is the one doing the work in and through us !!!

lol. But if your saved, because yu do them, then lose salvation for whatever reason, then salvation must be earned..

thats the point your failing to realise. and failing to confront.

every time I ask you you make this same argument, which we both agree on. That a person who is saved will do works.

But your not saying this. when you claim one can fall away, because your claiming one can do these works. yet still be lost.

I have known people who went back into the world. You will never convince me they were ever saved. Because I saw no sign of conviction or chastening of the spirit.

I have also known people that for whatever reason became prodigal children. Yet they NEVER reverted back to their old life. They still showed fruits of repentnance. they just backslid. Are you telling me those people are lost? How can they now be unsaved when they STILL are living better than they did BEFORE they got saved?

 

[KennethC]

You continue in sin every day, if you deny it, you are deceived. I continue in a sin every day, if I deny it, I am decieved.

What makes you worthy, and them not? Your talking ONE SIN, not a lifestyle of sin.. there is a huge difference

Nowhere in the bible says we continue to sin everyday or your deceived, that is a misuse of 1 John chapter 1.

For even John himself says I write these to you so that you "do not sin."
Then he says "if" not "when" you sin again, and if means a possibility you will not a definite you will. Also if it was a definite that you will continue to sin everyday then John would contradict what he says later on that those who are born again does not sin.

What John is referring to is habitual sinning that we will refrain from, not the stumble or fall back here or there that we all do. But nowhere does the bible approve or support a everyday sinful nature of born again believers !!!

 

[KennethC]

Yes, But the bible says all who are saved WILL DO THESE WORKS.. so whats your problem? your claiming we can do them and still lose salvation



lol. But if your saved, because yu do them, then lose salvation for whatever reason, then salvation must be earned..

thats the point your failing to realise. and failing to confront.

every time I ask you you make this same argument, which we both agree on. That a person who is saved will do works.

But your not saying this. when you claim one can fall away, because your claiming one can do these works. yet still be lost.

I have known people who went back into the world. You will never convince me they were ever saved. Because I saw no sign of conviction or chastening of the spirit.

I have also known people that for whatever reason became prodigal children. Yet they NEVER reverted back to their old life. They still showed fruits of repentnance. they just backslid. Are you telling me those people are lost? How can they now be unsaved when they STILL are living better than they did BEFORE they got saved?

If you stop doing those works that are driven from the fruit of the Holy Spirit, that means you are back to living a deliberate sinful lifestyle. You can not sin and walk in the fruit of the Spirit at the same time !!!

They are opposites of each other, and the bible says some will go back to perdition !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nowhere in the bible says we continue to sin everyday or your deceived, that is a misuse of 1 John chapter 1.

For even John himself says I write these to you so that you "do not sin."
Then he says "if" not "when" you sin again, and if means a possibility you will not a definite you will. Also if it was a definite that you will continue to sin everyday then John would contradict what he says later on that those who are born again does not sin.

What John is referring to is habitual sinning that we will refrain from, not the stumble or fall back here or there that we all do. But nowhere does the bible approve or support a everyday sinful nature of born again believers !!!

so your telling me that for 24 hours. you never think of self. not even once?

Your a better christian than anyone who has ever lived,

the problem with legalism is you focus on known sins, and are making sure you do not do the, which blinds you to the sins you are commiting (the pharisee had this problem. Even when they were confronted with their sin, they denied it, because they were self decieved)

 

[KennethC]

Yep. and they should be. And in my church, after a certain time, and counseling, that is what we do (if it comes to that, we fallow the biblical form of discipline)

It does not mean they are not saved, because paul also corrected them when the person repented, and they refused to allow him bnack as if nothing happened.

He still called them brothers and sisters. Most of them were practicing sexual sin, His point was one of their members was practicing a sin not even the heathen would stand up to sleeping with a fathers wife) thats why got him so angry..

But they had to repent in order to be back in the fold, they were not saved while walking in that deliberate sinful lifestyle.

Apostle James clearly says if a person wanders away from the truth their soul will not be saved unless they return to the Lord.

Return to the Lord, not come to the Lord for the first time !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you stop doing those works that are driven from the fruit of the Holy Spirit, that means you are back to living a deliberate sinful lifestyle.

Oh, And you know a person who has stopped every one of those works?

Again, I have met many prodigal children, and could still see some fruit. So again, Who are you to judge)

You can not sin and walk in the fruit of the Spirit at the same time !!!

I never said yuo could Walking in the psirit is not salvation, it is called being in fellowship with the spirit.

They are opposites of each other, and the bible says some will go back to perdition !!!

Yep. people did it back then, and do it today, and in the end days more will do it.

it is called going to what you really have faith in, and stop trying to be something your not.

Again, How can you claim your not putting conditions on salvation, when you just put a condition on salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But they had to repent in order to be back in the fold, they were not saved while walking in that deliberate sinful lifestyle.

So God made a mistake and gave someone his free gift based on his mercy, not on how good they were. and has to now take it back?

(ps. if you break the least of the law. your guilty of the whole law. and thus would be unsaved by just one sin. So how can this one sin cause one to lose salavtion?

And jhon said a child of God can not walk in a lifestyle of sin, one who ever does has never seen or known God.

you need to make up your mind, is God fooled. and is john a liar. or is your thinking wrong?

Apostle James clearly says if a person wanders away from the truth their soul will not be saved unless they return to the Lord.

Return to the Lord, not come to the Lord for the first time !!!

Oh, do tell. where does james say this.

 

[KennethC]

so your telling me that for 24 hours. you never think of self. not even once?

Your a better christian than anyone who has ever lived,

the problem with legalism is you focus on known sins, and are making sure you do not do the, which blinds you to the sins you are commiting (the pharisee had this problem. Even when they were confronted with their sin, they denied it, because they were self decieved)

That would come from the fact of the bad teaching that thought alone is sin, but that is not what Jesus or James says.

They both mention lust with the thought, which means the feelings also have to be there for it to be sin.
James goes further and says when you let those lustful thoughts (thoughts with feelings) get full grown to where they control you again it brings forth eternal death.

 

[KennethC]

So God made a mistake and gave someone his free gift based on his mercy, not on how good they were. and has to now take it back?

(ps. if you break the least of the law. your guilty of the whole law. and thus would be unsaved by just one sin. So how can this one sin cause one to lose salavtion?

And jhon said a child of God can not walk in a lifestyle of sin, one who ever does has never seen or known God.

you need to make up your mind, is God fooled. and is john a liar. or is your thinking wrong?



Oh, do tell. where does james say this.

James 5:19-20