God did away with some of His own sayings

[just-me]

I will consider what atwhatcost said and truly try and understand your perspective. If you felt I was probing you, I apologize. I just wanted to get to the heart of the discussion as I saw where the logic of the OP could lead.

First question, if we do not obey the commandments of the Law what penalty do we take upon ourselves?

That can be truthfully answered with NT scripture. The penalty is "Tribulation and anguish."

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" Romans 2:9

"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?" Proverbs 24:12

A general question deserves a general answer. Next?

 

[BenFTW]

That can be truthfully answered with NT scripture. The penalty is "Tribulation and anguish."

"Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" Romans 2:9

"If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?" Proverbs 24:12

A general question deserves a general answer. Next?

Next question, is our salvation at risk if we do not keep the statutes of the Law? Is that a fair question? Oh darn, thats two questions.

PS: So your answer is basically that there are natural consequences to sin. Good answer.

 

[just-me]

Next question, is our salvation at risk if we do not keep the statutes of the Law? Is that a fair question? Oh darn, thats two questions.

PS: So your answer is basically that there are natural consequences to sin. Good answer.

That's fine. I expect you to ask numerous questions.

Keeping the law of God doesn't cause salvation in Christ. If we are truly saved by His grace, we will desire to do God's will. Being born again is the beginning of a new life, not the finale.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2 Peter 3:17-18

Next?

 

[BenFTW]

That's fine. I expect you to ask numerous questions.

Keeping the law of God doesn't cause salvation in Christ. If we are truly saved by His grace, we will desire to do God's will. Being born again is the beginning of a new life, not the finale.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2 Peter 3:17-18

Next?

I put in bold something you typed. What is "God's will" in the context of your answer, or otherwise stated, do you mean to say that obeying the Law is doing God's will? Thats how I understood your answer, maybe you can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[gb9]

Let me reply with the same tone you're giving off.

You do know Cain wasn't absolved of his sin just because he didn't have the law. Why is that? Because he had the law, just like the Gentiles have.

Is the Bible a book? Well, look at it on your bookshelf. How many books are you looking at? I see one. I see one because Bible means "Book." Inside that book are smaller sections - called books, albeit quite a few are letters -- written by over 40 people in the span of roughly 1600 years. So, exactly why do you think repeating yourself 3 times makes your questions any more relevant, especially given you didn't have the exact right answer to your own question?

Did you know the prickly pear cactus is native to all of North America from Mexico way into Canada? Did you? DID YOU? Are you going to answer my question?

And should you answer my question since it is as related to the topic as your question?

The 'tude isn't becoming is it? Yeah. How about that?

my ' tude come from this : truth is truth, lies are lies. so when someone about what the Bible says and / or means, that ticks me off. to say that we must keep the law to be saved is a lie. plain and simple. also, I just wanted to see if just- me was aware of this, because the Bible not being one continual book matters that verses should not be just plucked, strung together to make points. also, since we are saved by grace talking about obedience must also be talked about by grace since they go hand and hand.

 

[KennethC]

I put in bold something you typed. What is "God's will" in the context of your answer, or otherwise stated, do you mean to say that obeying the Law is doing God's will? Thats how I understood your answer, maybe you can correct me if I am wrong.

1 Thessalonians 5:18
give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.


1 Thessalonians 4:3
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality;


Hebrews 13:20-21
May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


1 Peter 2:15
For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.


Ephesians 5:15-20
Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[gb9]

That's fine. I expect you to ask numerous questions.

Keeping the law of God doesn't cause salvation in Christ. If we are truly saved by His grace, we will desire to do God's will. Being born again is the beginning of a new life, not the finale.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
2 Peter 3:17-18

Next?

you answered ben, but thank you for saying that. but man, lead with that statement. God's grace saves us, not the law. once we establish that, you and I might could have a fruitful conversation.

 

[gb9]

my ' tude come from this : truth is truth, lies are lies. so when someone about what the Bible says and / or means, that ticks me off. to say that we must keep the law to be saved is a lie. plain and simple. also, I just wanted to see if just- me was aware of this, because the Bible not being one continual book matters that verses should not be just plucked, strung together to make points. also, since we are saved by grace talking about obedience must also be talked about by grace since they go hand and hand.

and based on what just-me said a bit ago, great to hear. he got that right.

 

[pottersclay]

Edifying discussion......hhhmmmmmmm stupid.............hhhmmmmmmm.
Edifying stupid discussion......nope
Stupid edifying discussion........nope
Discussion stupid edifying........nope.....hhhmmmmmmm

I don't get it..............oh ...let's edify stupid in discussion.......nope

 

[just-me]

I put in bold something you typed. What is "God's will" in the context of your answer, or otherwise stated, do you mean to say that obeying the Law is doing God's will? Thats how I understood your answer, maybe you can correct me if I am wrong.

If we love God, because He loved us first, we will desire to obey His commandants/instructions just like an obedient child will want to please a loving dad. "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

The law is spiritual, and Jesus taught in parables connecting the physical with the spiritual by the will of His own Father. Now if we are truly saved, we will want to do the will of God in spirit, not necessarily the physical in every respect because we are fallible even if we desire to. If we cannot see beyond the physical concerning the law of God (which reveals to us both our nature, and God's charterer/name) we are of a carnal mind.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

Let me ask you a question concerning how Paul worshiped concerning this subject. If we are to follow Paul's example as he wrote, how are we supposed to worship God in your opinion? The right answer will certainly clear the air for good understanding.

 

[just-me]

you answered ben, but thank you for saying that. but man, lead with that statement. God's grace saves us, not the law. once we establish that, you and I might could have a fruitful conversation.

I haven't changed my mind about this for years. LOL

 

[KennethC]

If we love God, because He loved us first, we will desire to obey His commandants/instructions just like an obedient child will want to please a loving dad. "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

The law is spiritual, and Jesus taught in parables connecting the physical with the spiritual by the will of His own Father. Now if we are truly saved, we will want to do the will of God in spirit, not necessarily the physical in every respect because we are fallible even if we desire to. If we cannot see beyond the physical concerning the law of God (which reveals to us both our nature, and God's charterer/name) we are of a carnal mind.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

Let me ask you a question concerning how Paul worshiped concerning this subject. If we are to follow Paul's example as he wrote, how are we supposed to worship God in your opinion? The right answer will certainly clear the air for good understanding.

Not to mention that we can not fulfill the physical of parts of it also because the Lord Himself fulfilled.

Like we do not need the sacrificial laws because the Lord became that one time sacrifice for all time..........

We do not need the physical punishments (curse of the law) because the Lord took the physical punishment for our sins by being crucified........

We can keep the feasts if we want to but even they pointed to Christs fulfillment, and He has fulfilled all of them but three......

 

[BenFTW]

Edifying discussion......hhhmmmmmmm stupid.............hhhmmmmmmm.
Edifying stupid discussion......nope
Stupid edifying discussion........nope
Discussion stupid edifying........nope.....hhhmmmmmmm

I don't get it..............oh ...let's edify stupid in discussion.......nope

I acknowledged to others privately that the use of stupid may have been over the top. We can move past that now.

 

[BenFTW]

If we love God, because He loved us first, we will desire to obey His commandants/instructions just like an obedient child will want to please a loving dad. "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

The law is spiritual, and Jesus taught in parables connecting the physical with the spiritual by the will of His own Father. Now if we are truly saved, we will want to do the will of God in spirit, not necessarily the physical in every respect because we are fallible even if we desire to. If we cannot see beyond the physical concerning the law of God (which reveals to us both our nature, and God's charterer/name) we are of a carnal mind.

Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31

Let me ask you a question concerning how Paul worshiped concerning this subject. If we are to follow Paul's example as he wrote, how are we supposed to worship God in your opinion? The right answer will certainly clear the air for good understanding.

We are to worship in spirit and truth. Next question, are we to maintain our salvation through obedience?

 

[KennethC]

We are to worship in spirit and truth. Next question, are we to maintain our salvation through obedience?

We should not look at it that way of maintaining salvation, because a true faith in the Lord will be lead in obedience by the Holy Spirit's guidance.

There are multiple scriptures that speak on disobedience and the end result for those is not good, and the word of God says disobedience is a sin of unbelief !!!

 

[just-me]

We are to worship in spirit and truth. Next question, are we to maintain our salvation through obedience?

I will answer with scripture on this one. "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16

I sincerely believe if the desire to be obedient to God isn't present in our heart, that salvation is not present either. Therefore it is confirmed in scripture that disobedience confirms sin unto death.

"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams." 1 Samuel 15:22b

Would you care to answer my question now referencing to Paul's form of worship?

Next?

 

[NBCOGOPCB]

The Temple is "WITHIN" the TRUE BELIEVER as a CHILD of GOD.

 

[crossnote]

We should not look at it that way of maintaining salvation, because a true faith in the Lord will be lead in obedience by the Holy Spirit's guidance.

There are multiple scriptures that speak on disobedience and the end result for those is not good, and the word of God says disobedience is a sin of unbelief !!!

Obedience to the law or to the promises?

Galatians 3:3, 5-7 (KJV)
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 

[shotgunner]

I can see what just-me is saying from these recent posts. It is a fine thing to have the desire to obey God. I don't have any problem with anyone knowing the law. I just see the leading of the Holy Spirit as a much better way to please God and obey him than making sure I am following the written law.

What I see is that when we teach others that they are saved by grace but the law is still the will of God, they will always judge themselves by how well they have kept the law. It will bring constant condemnation if they are honest in how well they kept it, for it was designed to bring condemnation. From this standpoint people will wonder if they are even saved since they can't perfectly keep the law, even if they know they are saved by grace. You will wind up with the doctrine of some here that you are in constant jeopardy of loosing salvation.


What I believe we should be doing instead of teaching law is having people renew their minds. Get people to know the character and personality of God through the scriptures. Get people to know, and I mean really know deep inside that the new birth changed them. They need to truly know and accept who they are now in Christ. If we would only teach people a closer living relationship with Christ, there would be no need for law because the Holy Spirit would lead them into all righteousness. Through the commandments of love and through a living love relationship they would keep the commandments.


The Holy Spirit is a much better guide into righteousness than the law. The law was necessary when men didn't have a living relationship but not now. God himself is inside the believer. He has written his commandments on our hearts. He wants to lead us in a personal way. That is so well summed up in this scripture. God even says there is no need to teach God's commandments for he wants all to know him in a new living way.

Hebrews 8:10-11King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.


Isn't what I made bold exactly what the followers of the law are doing, trying to teach the law?

 

[just-me]

Obedience to the law or to the promises?

Galatians 3:3, 5-7 (KJV)
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Are not they both from One God? Why separate them with an either/or statement? Obedience is ours, the promises to us are from God Almighty not to ourselves.