God did away with some of His own sayings

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Jesus said, "If your eye offends you pluck it out"...any takers? Or are we gonna pick and choose or spiritualized His Words?
Of course we are not perfect so our eye offends;we are under grace...no need to pluck, He changes hearts.

Whoa whoa, slow down there! They might just do it and then we are going to have to get the so called heretical faith healers to pray for them. Lets not be hasty now, Jesus was only joking. He wasn't making a point of complete perfection being required under the Law and that it was impossible for man. No, no, he completely meant that if you take out your eye and chop off your hand that you can save yourself. The Law is doable, it really is. @_@
 
Thanks Just-me, I remembered that post... I understood the spiritual aspect... I did not recall you ever saying/suggesting "don't eat pork". In a similar way as you... when I read what God said.... I seek to discover what it is there for... FOR NOW.
 
OH... Jesus was J-O-K-I-N-G..... can you tell us all the other places in the bible where it was "just a JOKE", so we can laugh, dismiss it and move on???
 
OH... Jesus was J-O-K-I-N-G..... can you tell us all the other places in the bible where it was "just a JOKE", so we can laugh, dismiss it and move on???

Thats the point. People dismiss it but hold tightly to every other command Jesus was teaching to people under Law as the requirement for perfection. I was being sarcastic.
 
Not really. I will quote a post that I made about that.

Not really? Why didn't you answer that with an emphatic no? Is it because you believe that we are to "observe" (but not obey, theres a difference) that command? You are slowly going back into your turtle shell, being reclusive and not speaking forthright. Come on, we have made strides, lets continue doing so. Answer plainly.
 
Show me post-cross, after Jesus' ascension and resurrection, where any of the books of the bible state that we have to forgive someone or else the Lord won't forgive us. You can't find it. You can try but let me save you some time.

Ephesians 4:32King James Version (KJV)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

What do you clearly see being said here? Why do we forgive others? "Even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you", does this not mean that we are already forgiven? Of course it does. So in terms of forgiving others, we are coming from a position of forgiveness, having experienced it and therefore do it unto others as to not do so would be hypocritical. The point, however, is that we have forgiveness and we do not forgive others to obtain it. It is currently in our possession.

It is a continuous standard of believing others that we must keep, just as the Lord has and continues to forgive us.

You again take that scripture from Paul the way it is written to stand alone, but you must follow it up just as Paul always does with the warnings he gave after teaching grace.

Apostle Paul did not teach grace alone in his epistles as he always followed up the teachings of grace with the warnings as well about our conduct in the faith. For Paul constantly stated how we can and can not walk in the faith if we have the hope of salvation through Christ.

Remember even Paul stated that we are to uphold His teachings, not do away with them, and even gives a strict warning to those who do not obey the gospel of Christ. Guess what the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called ???
Answer: the gospel books...........
 
The Law and the new covenant are at polar opposites. One is work and another rest. They are polarities.
Law and grace are not to be combined,

I am not sure you understood my point. I in no way stated the Law as not holy, just, and good.

Looks contradictory to me. Grace is good (NT and OT) and so is law (NT and OT) according to scripture.

Old covenant grace = Psalm 84:11

New covenant grace = 1 Corinthians 15:10

Old covenant law of love = Leviticus 19:18 Deuteronomy 6:5

New Covenant law of love = Luke 10:27

Old Covenant law = Deuteronomy 32:46

New Covenant law = Hebrews 10:16 1 Timothy 1:8


 
Thats the point. People dismiss it but hold tightly to every other command Jesus was teaching to people under Law as the requirement for perfection. I was being sarcastic.

Yes He was teaching to those who are under the law (JEWS), but then He followed it up and told those Jews that accepted His message, teachings, and commands to go out to all the nations (Gentile and Jewish alike) and teach them to obey everything He told them.
 
Which is why when you call them out and rebuke and reprove them you are to follow it up with the truth and exhortation and edifying.

To many want to just rebuke and reprove in a unedifying way and leave it at that.

Also what a person needs to look for when discussing the bible with others is are they using the Sword.
Meaning do they mention where in the bible they are getting there info from (book, chapter, scripture), and if they don't give those things I would tell others to be careful at taking what they say as truth !!!

I agree with your point absolutely! But again, there is a point here I am trying to make you are missing or assuming to be understood.

When you say, "When you call them out..." "...follow it up with...." I feel my Spirit move. It speaks to me of a right to do for God, taking pause to allow individualism to play a part time role over emergence of yourself being identified with Christ-likeness at all times during the event of rightness.. We are not called to do that. We are called to be used with God, Never to step aside temporarily or step ahead of His lead, In both real-time or in our line of reasoning to conclude God's will; leaving us to operate on the basis of godly- creed instead of the person of Jesus Christ.

We must allow God room to have the balance of understood things to be in His control. What things you mentioned will be His calling in time....for they are not incorrect. But they could be if He changes the message of the moment without you taking notice. It needs always to be in His timing, with His called upon message in real-time. Otherwise we run the risk of one time being right but another being living thru our creed and not the reality of the truth of the facts, thus not having Himself living thru us in His vastly more complete knowledge of things.. An example of this is in Job. During Jobs ordeal of unreasonable reaction of God's character by human reasoning we find his two friends; Bildad and Eliphaz trying to make heads or tails of what they have yet known of God by way of getting the truth to serve God. I am not saying you are exercising such an act but my warning is in walking with our ministry in such a way we are not tempted to do as these men did.

Bildad and Eliphaz in there choice to live by the creed that God cannot be wrong and thus Job must be at fault for anything we humans can't reason, led them both to conclude and go forth without God with them on the task. Eliphaz declares straight off that Job is wrong despite what we know God to think of Job, while Bildad takes another line--that of asking questions neither come anywhere near the reason for Job's suffering.

We need to understand the importance of never leaving the dock of ministry without God firmly in front of us lest we be sidetracked. And again, I am not saying this message you give is in error. But there is an element of "Yes--but" in all of us. I simply warn that without the balance of God in us balancing our attitudes toward people at every turn we risk imagining our point of view to be the only one. We then will tend to answer people without understanding the answer or even their problem. In christ we can say,"I don't know the answer let's go to God about it," saving wrong direction in them and pretentious right doing in us..
 
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Whoa whoa, slow down there! They might just do it and then we are going to have to get the so called heretical faith healers to pray for them. Lets not be hasty now, Jesus was only joking. He wasn't making a point of complete perfection being required under the Law and that it was impossible for man. No, no, he completely meant that if you take out your eye and chop off your hand that you can save yourself. The Law is doable, it really is. @_@
Ha Ha, yet even chopping off our arm or plucking out our eye would be presenting a Sacrifice without spot or wrinkle;)
Point..not all Jesus directed, was for the Church.
 
I agree with your point absolutely! But again, there is a point here I am trying to make you are missing or assuming to be understood.

When you say, "When you call them out..." "...follow it up with...." I feel my Spirit move. It speaks to me of a right to do for God, taking pause to allow individualism to play a part time role over emergence of yourself being identified with Christ-likeness at all times during the event of rightness.. We are not called to do that. We are called to be used with God, Never to step aside temporarily or step ahead of His lead, In both real-time or in our line of reasoning to conclude God's will; leaving us to operate on the basis of godly- creed instead of the person of Jesus Christ.

We must allow God room to have the balance of understood things to be in His control. What things you mentioned will be His calling in time....for they are not incorrect. But they could be if He changes the message of the moment without you taking notice. It needs always to be in His timing, with His called upon message in real-time. Otherwise we run the risk of one time being right but another being living thru our creed and not the reality of the truth of the facts, thus not having Himself living thru us in His vastly more complete knowledge of things.. An example of this is in Job. During Jobs ordeal of unreasonable reaction of God's character by human reasoning we find his two friends; Bildad and Eliphaz trying to make heads or tails of what they have yet known of God by way of getting the truth to serve God. I am not saying you are exercising such an act but my warning is in walking with our ministry in such a way we are not tempted to do as these men did.

Bildad and Eliphaz in there choice to live by the creed that God cannot be wrong and thus Job must be at fault for anything we humans can't reason, led them both to conclude and go forth without God with them on the task. Eliphaz declares straight off that Job is wrong despite what we know God to think of Job, while Bildad takes another line--that of asking questions neither come anywhere near the reason for Job's suffering.

We need to understand the importance of never leaving the dock of ministry without God firmly in front of us lest we be sidetracked. And again, I am not saying this message you give is in error. But there is an element of "Yes--but" in all of us. I simply warn that without the balance of God in us balancing our attitudes toward people at every turn we risk imagining our point of view to be the only one. We then will tend to answer people without understanding the answer or even their problem. In christ we can say,"I don't know the answer let's go to God about it," saving wrong direction in them and pretentious right doing in us..

And I don't disagree with anything you have said because I do let God take the lead, which is why I always mention the standards and steps given to us in His Word.

What is wrong with the "yes but" approach if somebody is only given partial truth ???

Should we just leave it at people giving partial truths, or should we by God fill in the parts in His word being left off.
Remember a partial truth can be just as wrong as a lie !!!
 
I agree with your point absolutely! But again, there is a point here I am trying to make you are missing or assuming to be understood.

When you say, "When you call them out..." "...follow it up with...." I feel my Spirit move. It speaks to me of a right to do for God, taking pause to allow individualism to play a part time role over emergence of yourself being identified with Christ-likeness at all times during the event of rightness.. We are not called to do that. We are called to be used with God, Never to step aside temporarily or step ahead of His lead, In both real-time or in our line of reasoning to conclude God's will; leaving us to operate on the basis of godly- creed instead of the person of Jesus Christ.

We must allow God room to have the balance of understood things to be in His control. What things you mentioned will be His calling in time....for they are not incorrect. But they could be if He changes the message of the moment without you taking notice. It needs always to be in His timing, with His called upon message in real-time. Otherwise we run the risk of one time being right but another being living thru our creed and not the reality of the truth of the facts, thus not having Himself living thru us in His vastly more complete knowledge of things.. An example of this is in Job. During Jobs ordeal of unreasonable reaction of God's character by human reasoning we find his two friends; Bildad and Eliphaz trying to make heads or tails of what they have yet known of God by way of getting the truth to serve God. I am not saying you are exercising such an act but my warning is in walking with our ministry in such a way we are not tempted to do as these men did.

Bildad and Eliphaz in there choice to live by the creed that God cannot be wrong and thus Job must be at fault for anything we humans can't reason, led them both to conclude and go forth without God with them on the task. Eliphaz declares straight off that Job is wrong despite what we know God to think of Job, while Bildad takes another line--that of asking questions neither come anywhere near the reason for Job's suffering.

We need to understand the importance of never leaving the dock of ministry without God firmly in front of us lest we be sidetracked. And again, I am not saying this message you give is in error. But there is an element of "Yes--but" in all of us. I simply warn that without the balance of God in us balancing our attitudes toward people at every turn we risk imagining our point of view to be the only one. We then will tend to answer people without understanding the answer or even their problem. In christ we can say,"I don't know the answer let's go to God about it," saving wrong direction in them and pretentious right doing in us..

Or in other words: "The gift of the Gospel is to our poverty, not in the triumph of our resources." [ O.C.]

To operate therefore we cannot without Him. I said I hold no judgement on you but your words have laid open the thought of my contention of Spirit I am simply trying to be clarifying of Scripture is all.
 
And I don't disagree with anything you have said because I do let God take the lead, which is why I always mention the standards and steps given to us in His Word.

What is wrong with the "yes but" approach if somebody is only given partial truth ???

Should we just leave it at people giving partial truths, or should we by God fill in the parts in His word being left off.
Remember a partial truth can be just as wrong as a lie !!!

The "yes --but" example is between you and God not you and man. We are on the same page, I needed to say the details I mentioned based on my Spirit is all.
 
Ha Ha, yet even chopping off our arm or plucking out our eye would be presenting a Sacrifice without spot or wrinkle;)
Point..not all Jesus directed, was for the Church.

This then again is where you would be focusing to much on a physical aspect instead of the spiritual aspect of what Jesus was saying.

When Jesus was telling them to pluck out their eye or cut off their hand it was not to be taken in actually physically doing that.

What He was actually trying to show was the importance for us to eliminate all sin from our lives, and do away with the things that could cause us to stumble and sin.
 
And I don't disagree with anything you have said because I do let God take the lead, which is why I always mention the standards and steps given to us in His Word.

What is wrong with the "yes but" approach if somebody is only given partial truth ???

Should we just leave it at people giving partial truths, or should we by God fill in the parts in His word being left off.
Remember a partial truth can be just as wrong as a lie !!!

I am not debating Gods calling of truth's delivery, only any individualism in it. We need to be in ourselves the identity of Christ Himself . If you are this.... so be it, your words of choice open the pandora's box is all.
 
Not really? Why didn't you answer that with an emphatic no? Is it because you believe that we are to "observe" (but not obey, theres a difference) that command? You are slowly going back into your turtle shell, being reclusive and not speaking forthright. Come on, we have made strides, lets continue doing so. Answer plainly.

He did answer the question I asked beyond an basic yes or no answer by reposting the ONLY comment he has ever referred to PORK (as far as I can recall). Since I was the one asking the question, and I am satisfied with the answer... why are you INTERJECTING your complaints into our two-way discourse? It isn't helpful, it isn't edifying, it isn't encouraging... rather the opposite:(
 
This then again is where you would be focusing to much on a physical aspect instead of the spiritual aspect of what Jesus was saying.

When Jesus was telling them to pluck out their eye or cut off their hand it was not to be taken in actually physically doing that.

What He was actually trying to show was the importance for us to eliminate all sin from our lives, and do away with the things that could cause us to stumble and sin.

That indeed was His intent but the REAL consideration was not a lie. It was real. It would be better to really lose an eye than to lust and miss heaven. The grind of the reality needs to be there or He is a liar and the point is not felt in comparison. The truth is indeed in the actual event, not a calling to do so as you are pointing out, but you cannot dismiss the truth of the actual consideration to appease the message to men. Otherwise we do not live up to the integrity of the gospel.
 
That indeed was His intent but the REAL consideration was not a lie. It was real. It would be better to really lose an eye than to lust and miss heaven. The grind of the reality needs to be there or He is a liar and the point is not felt in comparison. The truth is indeed in the actual event, not a calling to do so as you are pointing out, but you cannot dismiss the truth of the actual consideration to appease the message to men. Otherwise we do not live up to the integrity of the gospel.

I did not call it a lie in any way, was just pointing out the spiritual aspect that needed to be seen in it other then just focusing on the physical.

If we focus just on the physical then we will overlook the spiritual truth that does apply !!!
 
This "thing" of wanting to void out a part of God's words, that I consider false doctrine can be explained as follows.
1. The law and commandments contained in the Old covenant must to be made void and abolished because man has refused to use the law lawfully in order to make it good.
2. Therefore, it's a faulty covenant because man fell short.
3. This situation of past history justifies the rejection of a substantial part of God's spoken words.
4. Therefore it's God's spoken words that have been proven to fail because man didn't live up to the commandments contained in the Old Covenant.


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This then again is where you would be focusing to much on a physical aspect instead of the spiritual aspect of what Jesus was saying.

When Jesus was telling them to pluck out their eye or cut off their hand it was not to be taken in actually physically doing that.

What He was actually trying to show was the importance for us to eliminate all sin from our lives, and do away with the things that could cause us to stumble and sin.
No. It was possible physically but impossible spiritually or men, but it would profit nothing to physically do it when spiritually left undone.
 
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