WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?

[PlainWord]

Perhaps the biggest clue of the identity of the Harlot is here:

[SUP][SUP]12 [/SUP]“The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

16 [/SUP]And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

We know that Horns are leaders and we know these ten kings do not have a kingdom. This means these "kings" are not heads of countries but rather heads of organizations. My bet is they are heads of Islamic terror groups. We already know that they hate traditional Islam which teaches peace and we know they have corrupted their faith to make it about killing all those who will not convert. Saudi Arabia, home to Mekka is building a huge fence across it's northern boarder to keep ISIS out. They are terrified of ISIS and ISIS has made it known they hate the Saudis.

It will be Mekka that is nuked, not the Vatican. It is Mekka that is located on the busy Red Sea shipping lanes where even a tiny nuke detonated in Mekka could be seen all the way across the Red Sea.

 

[PlainWord]

The Clock Tower at Mecca built in 2010 is the tallest clock tower in the world. On top of the tower is the phrase, "Allah is Greatest."

Remember Babel? Do you think God would take notice of this?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.

REACHED TO HEAVEN. At the very top is the Islamic Crescent of the moon.

What is the most important and first commandment God gave?

[SUP]3 [/SUP]“You shall have no other gods before Me.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; [SUP]5 [/SUP]you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God...

The symbol of the moon which is atop all mosques where Muslims bow to worship is in fact worshiping things from the heavens. Catholics don't do this. I invite anyone who does not think Islam is the Great Harlot, Mystery Babylon to reconsider their views.

 

[popeye]

He is referring to both the survivors of the nation Israel who will have been cared for out in the wilderness for that last 3 1/2 years and the Gentile great tribulation saints who will make it through to the end and not just Israel. Both of these groups will be those who will repopulate the earth during the millennial kingdom.

PW refuses any systematic exegesis whatsoever. Even if you suggest that he take a peek at the pretrib verses he immediately goes into postrib mode.

 

[thebesttrees]

This discussion so reminds me of The Great Disappointment.

 

[popeye]

Just realized we have been misquoting mat 24;39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"and took them all away"...should read "LIFTED ALL" 39 And knew not until the flood came, and lifted all; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That greek word "npev" is most always used "to lift"

Noah and family were lifted while in the ark via the water.

This is huge,as it is yet another of many blows to anti-pretribs.

 

[GaryA]

Just realized we have been misquoting mat 24;39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"and took them all away"...should read "LIFTED ALL" 39 And knew not until the flood came, and lifted all; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That greek word "npev" is most always used "to lift"

Noah and family were lifted while in the ark via the water.

This is huge,as it is yet another of many blows to anti-pretribs.

"It is quite bold of you to tell the Word of God what it should say..."

The phrase "and took them all away" is referring to those described in verse 38; it is not referring to Noah and family.

It is not 'huge'; it is imagination applied to misinterpreted scripture...

 

[popeye]

"It is quite bold of you to tell the Word of God what it should say..."

The phrase "and took them all away" is referring to those described in verse 38; it is not referring to Noah and family.

It is not 'huge'; it is imagination applied to misinterpreted scripture...

it is imagination applied to misinterpreted scripture.

Uh,ever wonder why any serious bible student owns a greek bible?

The greek says lifted.

Take it up with Jesus since you infer he said it. I only reported it.

So bizarre that the "rapture word is not in the bible" crowd, are now offended by what IS there.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Just realized we have been misquoting mat 24;39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"and took them all away"...should read "LIFTED ALL" 39 And knew not until the flood came, and lifted all; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That greek word "npev" is most always used "to lift"

Noah and family were lifted while in the ark via the water.

This is huge,as it is yet another of many blows to anti-pretribs.

Greetings popeye! Please allow me to shed some light on this. Here is the Scripture:

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Breaking this down, in verse 38 it says that "people" were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Therefore grammatically speaking, the "people" stand in contrast to Noah, That is, the "people" are those outside of the ark.

Noah had been building the ark for a hundred years, preaching to those people that God was going to flood the earth. The reference to the people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, is meant to demonstrate that they did not believe the word of God preached by Noah and were carrying on with business as usual, marrying, giving in marriage and planning for the future up until Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took those people away and therefore the "people" in the verse is not referring to Noah and those on the ark, but those outside of the ark.

This Scripture in fact has been misunderstood by many pastors, preachers and expositors interpreting those "taken" as being taken in the rapture, that is, being caught up. Verses 40 and 41 say the following:

"40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Those who are "Taken" in the example are being compared to those who were "Taken" in the flood and therefore the comparison is wicked to wicked and not wicked to righteous. To get a better understanding of what is meant by "one will be taken" we need to go look at the Lord's parable of the weeds and wheat found in Mt.13:

==================================
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’  "
==================================

So in the Scripture above, the weeds represent the people who belong to the evil one and the wheat are the son's of the kingdom. At the harvest, which is figurative for the end of the age, the harvester's who are the angels, go out and "FIRST" collect the weeds. Theses weeds represent the group of the "One Taken." So at the end of the age, Jesus is going to send out his angels and they will first collect the weeds (one taken). Now to understand where they are being taken to, we have to take a look at Luke's version of the same Scripture:

==============================
"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:34-37)
==============================

Notice in Luke's version after Jesus says, "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask: Where Lord? That is, where are they going to be taken? And Jesus replies with:

"Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

That would be a pretty strange response if those being taken was referring to those who are supposedly being caught up in the rapture. What did Jesus mean by his response? His answer to them regarding those who will be taken is a clue which is meant to lead the reader to an event found in Rev.19:17, which takes place at the end of the age:

==============================
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
==============================

Jesus' response to the disciples question of where the "one taken" is going to be taken finds its fulfillment in the above scripture. When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the church will be those following behind him on white horses wearing fine linen, white and clean (Rev.19:14). At the same time, the angels will be going throughout the earth and will "FIRST" collect the weeds (one taken) and will bring them back to the valley of Megiddo where all those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered together at Armageddon and where they will all be killed with that double-edged sword (the word of God) which will proceed from the mouth of the rider on the horse who is the Lord Jesus. After they have been killed, then all those vultures (birds) that were gathered together by the angel will gorge themselves on their flesh, which will be the fulfillment of when Jesus said, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

I truly hope that this gives a better understanding of this event.

 

[Bookends]

Greetings popeye! Please allow me to shed some light on this. Here is the Scripture:

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Breaking this down, in verse 38 it says that "people" were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Therefore grammatically speaking, the "people" stand in contrast to Noah, That is, the "people" are those outside of the ark.

Noah had been building the ark for a hundred years, preaching to those people that God was going to flood the earth. The reference to the people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, is meant to demonstrate that they did not believe the word of God preached by Noah and were carrying on with business as usual, marrying, giving in marriage and planning for the future up until Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took those people away and therefore the "people" in the verse is not referring to Noah and those on the ark, but those outside of the ark.

This Scripture in fact has been misunderstood by many pastors, preachers and expositors interpreting those "taken" as being taken in the rapture, that is, being caught up. Verses 40 and 41 say the following:

"40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Those who are "Taken" in the example are being compared to those who were "Taken" in the flood and therefore the comparison is wicked to wicked and not wicked to righteous. To get a better understanding of what is meant by "one will be taken" we need to go look at the Lord's parable of the weeds and wheat found in Mt.13:

==================================
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’  "
==================================

So in the Scripture above, the weeds represent the people who belong to the evil one and the wheat are the son's of the kingdom. At the harvest, which is figurative for the end of the age, the harvester's who are the angels, go out and "FIRST" collect the weeds. Theses weeds represent the group of the "One Taken." So at the end of the age, Jesus is going to send out his angels and they will first collect the weeds (one taken). Now to understand where they are being taken to, we have to take a look at Luke's version of the same Scripture:

==============================
"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:34-37)
==============================

Notice in Luke's version after Jesus says, "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask: Where Lord? That is, where are they going to be taken? And Jesus replies with:

"Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

That would be a pretty strange response if those being taken was referring to those who are supposedly being caught up in the rapture. What did Jesus mean by his response? His answer to them regarding those who will be taken is a clue which is meant to lead the reader to an event found in Rev.19:17, which takes place at the end of the age:

==============================
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
==============================

Jesus' response to the disciples question of where the "one taken" is going to be taken finds its fulfillment in the above scripture. When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the church will be those following behind him on white horses wearing fine linen, white and clean (Rev.19:14). At the same time, the angels will be going throughout the earth and will "FIRST" collect the weeds (one taken) and will bring them back to the valley of Megiddo where all those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered together at Armageddon and where they will all be killed with that double-edged sword (the word of God) which will proceed from the mouth of the rider on the horse who is the Lord Jesus. After they have been killed, then all those vultures (birds) that were gathered together by the angel will gorge themselves on their flesh, which will be the fulfillment of when Jesus said, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

I truly hope that this gives a better understanding of this event.

When God comes to judge the world and render His wrath unto to the wicked, I want to be one of the ones who are "left behind".

 

[Caribbean_Beauty]

There will be a rapture in that God's children will be caught up to meet Him. However this will not be done in secret but all shall behold.

 

[popeye]

Greetings popeye! Please allow me to shed some light on this. Here is the Scripture:

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Breaking this down, in verse 38 it says that "people" were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. Therefore grammatically speaking, the "people" stand in contrast to Noah, That is, the "people" are those outside of the ark.

Noah had been building the ark for a hundred years, preaching to those people that God was going to flood the earth. The reference to the people eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, is meant to demonstrate that they did not believe the word of God preached by Noah and were carrying on with business as usual, marrying, giving in marriage and planning for the future up until Noah entered the ark and the flood came and took those people away and therefore the "people" in the verse is not referring to Noah and those on the ark, but those outside of the ark.

This Scripture in fact has been misunderstood by many pastors, preachers and expositors interpreting those "taken" as being taken in the rapture, that is, being caught up. Verses 40 and 41 say the following:

"40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Those who are "Taken" in the example are being compared to those who were "Taken" in the flood and therefore the comparison is wicked to wicked and not wicked to righteous. To get a better understanding of what is meant by "one will be taken" we need to go look at the Lord's parable of the weeds and wheat found in Mt.13:

==================================
"The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. 27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’  "
==================================

So in the Scripture above, the weeds represent the people who belong to the evil one and the wheat are the son's of the kingdom. At the harvest, which is figurative for the end of the age, the harvester's who are the angels, go out and "FIRST" collect the weeds. Theses weeds represent the group of the "One Taken." So at the end of the age, Jesus is going to send out his angels and they will first collect the weeds (one taken). Now to understand where they are being taken to, we have to take a look at Luke's version of the same Scripture:

==============================
"I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

“Where, Lord?” they asked.
He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” (Luke 17:34-37)
==============================

Notice in Luke's version after Jesus says, "one will be taken and the other left" the disciples ask: Where Lord? That is, where are they going to be taken? And Jesus replies with:

"Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

That would be a pretty strange response if those being taken was referring to those who are supposedly being caught up in the rapture. What did Jesus mean by his response? His answer to them regarding those who will be taken is a clue which is meant to lead the reader to an event found in Rev.19:17, which takes place at the end of the age:

==============================
"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
==============================

Jesus' response to the disciples question of where the "one taken" is going to be taken finds its fulfillment in the above scripture. When Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, the church will be those following behind him on white horses wearing fine linen, white and clean (Rev.19:14). At the same time, the angels will be going throughout the earth and will "FIRST" collect the weeds (one taken) and will bring them back to the valley of Megiddo where all those kings, their generals and their armies will have been gathered together at Armageddon and where they will all be killed with that double-edged sword (the word of God) which will proceed from the mouth of the rider on the horse who is the Lord Jesus. After they have been killed, then all those vultures (birds) that were gathered together by the angel will gorge themselves on their flesh, which will be the fulfillment of when Jesus said, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

I truly hope that this gives a better understanding of this event.

Well both you guys completely ignore the clear wording.
Why would you do that?

Here it is :

paralambanó: to receive from​

Original Word: παραλαμβάνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: paralambanó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-al-am-ban'-o)
Short Definition: I take, receive
Definition: I take from, receive from, or: I take to, receive (apparently not used of money), admit, acknowledge; I take with me.

That would be your first red flag. You have the lord gathering in intimacy,receiving them to himself,and somehow transposing that to be tares and wicked.

So,you are off there.

Then you have those that are "LIFTED" concerning the story of Noah and the flood,but in your mind that can not and must not be Noah and his family?

You can look it up yourself.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

vs 39 GREEK; And knew not until the flood came, and lifted all ; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

NOTE,THIS IS PREFLOOD. It is not the wicked destroyed postrib/postflood.
Noah is not a postflood event. IT SAYS "BEFORE THE FLOOD"

All it LITERALLY SAYS IN THE GREEK is; "....and lifted all..." No "took them away"

You are relying on taking that revelation off the table.

As for the "one taken,one left" dimension, They are taken in conjunction with his coming,so those taken are the righteous.
There are no wicked taken at his coming. That is nowhere to be found.
read it for yourself ...IN CONTEXT;

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Concerning the parable of the tares,you take that out of context also;
and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.


38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

See that? that is the GWTJ. AFTER THE MILLENNIUM. In no way could that be those "received in intimacy"

You are wrong my friend.

 

[thebesttrees]

Just realized we have been misquoting mat 24;39

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
"and took them all away"...should read "LIFTED ALL" 39 And knew not until the flood came, and lifted all; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

That greek word "npev" is most always used "to lift"

Noah and family were lifted while in the ark via the water.

This is huge,as it is yet another of many blows to anti-pretribs.

Thank you. And another indication what MEETING IN THE AIR could mean! Let the Bible define its own words and phrases...

 

[popeye]

When God comes to judge the world and render His wrath unto to the wicked, I want to be one of the ones who are "left behind".

LOL.
The only time the wicked are gathered is for the LOF. at the end of the world GWTJ

Those taken are the ones watching and waiting "BEFORE THE FLOOD"
Read it for yourself;
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


NO WICKED GATHERED WHATSOEVER. YOU GUYS LITERALLY MADE THAT UP

 

[popeye]

Thank you. And another indication what MEETING IN THE AIR could mean! Let the Bible define its own words and phrases...

Yes,Noah,lot,and the "one taken,one left" are all prejudgement events.

Hard to beleive ,at this late hour, there are those that can not ,and refuse to read what is right there.

 

[popeye]

Blue Letter Bible;

;to let go, let alone, let be

1. 
   [*=left]
   1. 
      [*=left]
      1. 
         [*=left]to disregard
         [*=left]to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
         1. 
            [*=left]of teachers, writers and speakers
         
         [*=left]to omit, neglect
      
      [*=left]to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
      [*=left]to give up, keep no longer
   
   [*=left]to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
   [*=left]to leave, go way from one
   1. 
      [*=left]in order to go to another place
      [*=left]to depart from any one
      [*=left]to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
      [*=left]to desert wrongfully
      [*=left]to go away leaving something behind
      [*=left]to leave one by not taking him as a companion
      [*=left]to leave on dying, leave behind one
      [*=left]to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
      [*=left]abandon, leave destitute

Look at this,what you guys are saying is the righteous ,"the other one left"

Those left behind,that greek word means basically "FORSAKEN,OR THROWN AWAY"

So you guys are depicting God as abandoning his people,but gathering to himself in intimacy the wicked


You guys got it completely backwards

 

[Ahwatukee]

Popeye,

All that information that I gave you is accurate. You're error is not understanding who is being "Lifted up." According to the parable in Mt.13, at the end the age the Lord is going to send out his angels and they first collect those weeds who represent the "Ones taken" and that for the purpose of killing them with that double-edged sword. The phrase "One will be taken, the other left" would infer half, therefore do you actually believe that 50% of the population is going to be righteous and caught up to meet the Lord, especially when Jesus said that the road to destruction is wide and broad and many find its path in the comparison to the few who enter in?

Also, the "One Taken" event makes it clear that Jesus is speaking about the end of the age, which takes place after the wrath of God, which means that by making the "One taken" the righteous, you would be putting the church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer. As I also stated, the "One take" is being compared to the wicked who were "Taken" in the flood and so the comparison is wicked to wicked. In your interpretation you have the comparison righteous to wicked and that can't be. However, you of course are fee to believe whatever you like. I just tried to lay it all out for you . I can guarantee you, even though you don't believe it, that the "One taken" are the wicked that are gathered by the angels at the end of the age.

 

[KennethC]

Matthew 24:40 is in reference to what will happen at the Lord's second coming, not the gathering of the lawless ones who will be trampled by God's wrath on earth.

No wicked person is going to be lifted up or taken away in a rapture/gathering like event tell the second resurrection which happens after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ.

Before then the righteous one's (believers in Christ) will be caught up at the end of the Great Tribulation so that God's wrath can be poured out on the wicked !!!

 

[MarcR]

I used to be persuaded of the teaching of a pre- trib rapture; but extensive study has convinced me that the rapture must be pre wrath (which does not exclude pre trib).

1 Thess 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
KJV

We do not find the word rapture in any major English translation of scripture; but the word rapture is synonymous with the words caught up.

It is evident, from verse 17, that this passage does not describe the 'second coming' of Christ; because He does NOT come down; but we are taken up to meet Him in the air.


Rev 7:9
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
KJV

This occurs after the opening of the sixth seal (Rev 6:12) and before the opening of the 7th seal (Rev 8:1).
It seems to me that the sudden appearance in heaven of great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people could only be explained by 1Thes 4:15-17


Matt 24:31
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. KJV

This can not be the same event as that described in 1Thes 4:15-17; because in that event, the Lord, Himself, does the gathering, and heaven is the implied destination: while here the gathering is done by angels; and heaven is the point of departure.

Rev 19:11-14
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
KJV

The armies in white linen, of Rev 19:14 are, IMO, the multitude of Rev 7:9.

Mark 13:27
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

This appears to be the same event as Mat 24:31 except that those who come to faith after the rapture seem to be included in the gathering. There seems to be no conflict; only additional information.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Blue Letter Bible;




Look at this,what you guys are saying is the righteous ,"the other one left"

Those left behind,that greek word means basically "FORSAKEN,OR THROWN AWAY"

So you guys are depicting God as abandoning his people,but gathering to himself in intimacy the wicked


You guys got it completely backwards

One taken:

"Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned"

One left:

"then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."

"The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil"

"For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away."

"That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Wicked: The people who were "Taken" away in the flood

One take: are being compared to those who were "Taken" in the flood

The comparison is wicked to wicked. Therefore, those who are "Taken" are the wicked. There is no denying this fact. Therefore, since it is the wicked that are being taken, then the "One taken" cannot be representing the righteous being caught up to meet the Lord in the air, but are the wicked who are gathered first by the angels and those who are left are the righteous, the wheat.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Matthew 24:40 is in reference to what will happen at the Lord's second coming, not the gathering of the lawless ones who will be trampled by God's wrath on earth.

No wicked person is going to be lifted up or taken away in a rapture/gathering like event tell the second resurrection which happens after the 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ.

Before then the righteous one's (believers in Christ) will be caught up at the end of the Great Tribulation so that God's wrath can be poured out on the wicked !!!

Kenneth,

As always, the problem with the righteous being "caught up at the end of the Great Tribulation" is that by doing so you put the church through the entire wrath of God, which we are not appointed to suffer. The wrath of God which is carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments takes place prior to Christ's return to the earth to end the age. The church is not appointed to suffer this wrath or any wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it for us. This is what the resurrection and catching away is all about in 1 Thes.4:16-18. It is the removal of all those who are in Christ, those who are watching for and anticipating his appearing. The wrath of God is going to be poured out on those who will have continued to reject his Son and continue to live according to the sinful nature. Therefore, those who are true believers in Christ, who have been living from faith to faith, sowing to the Spirit and anticipating his return, will be resurrected and caught up prior to God's wrath, which means that the event would have to take place prior to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.