Catholic Heresy (for the record)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,183
29,488
113
[TABLE="width: 550"]
[TR]
[TD]
A ZENIT DAILY DISPATCH
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Cardinals' Letter Promoting Marian Dogma
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]"Over 500 Bishops Have Sent Their Request for This Solemn Definition"

ROME, 11 FEB. 2008 (ZENIT)
Here is an English translation of the letter written by the five cardinal co-sponsors of the Fatima Symposium on Marian Co-redemption and sent to the world's bishops and cardinals asking them to sign a petition that asks Benedict XVI to proclaim Mary as the Spiritual Mother of Humanity.

The letter was sent Jan. 1, solemnity of the Mother of God, and signed by Cardinal Telesphore Toppo, archbishop of Ranchi, India; Cardinal Luis Aponte Martínez, retired archbishop of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil, major archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India; Cardinal Riccardo Vidal, archbishop of Cebu, Philippines; and Cardinal Ernesto Corripio y Ahumada, retired archbishop of Mexico City.
* * *
Dear Brother Eminences and Excellencies:
In May 2005, we, as cardinal co-patrons, sponsored a Mariological symposium convened on the subject of the cooperation of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the work of human Redemption at the favored Fatima shrine in Portugal.

After extensive theological presentations delivered by a significant number of cardinals, bishops, and theologians, we concluded the symposium by enacting a votum to His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI. The votum reads as follows:

Your Holiness, Benedict XVI,
In an effort to enhance the ecumenical mission of the Church, and to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all its fullness, we, the undersigned cardinals and bishops who have convened in the favored Marian Shrine of Fatima (May 3-7, 2005), wish to express to you, Most Holy Father, our united hope and desire for the solemn papal definition of the doctrine of the Church regarding Mary Most Holy as the Spiritual Mother of all humanity, the Co-redemptrix with Jesus the Redeemer, Mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one Mediator, and Advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race.

In a time of significant confusion amidst the many diverse ecclesial bodies of Christianity, and as well among non-Christian peoples concerning this Marian doctrine, we believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation (cf. Lumen Gentium, n. 61) in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family.

It is of great importance, Holy Father, that peoples of other religious traditions receive the clarification on the highest level of authentic doctrinal certainty that we can provide, that the Catholic Church essentially distinguishes between the sole role of Jesus Christ, divine and human Redeemer of the world, and the unique though secondary and dependent human participation of the Mother of Christ in the great work of Redemption.

Therefore, Your Holiness, with filial obedience and respect, we wish to present you with this votum of our solidarity of hope for the papal definition of the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God as the spiritual Mother of all peoples in her three maternal roles as Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix of all graces and Advocate, as the ultimate expression of doctrinal clarity at the service of our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters who are not in communion with Rome, and as well as for the greater understanding and appreciation of this revealed doctrine concerning the Mother of the Redeemer by the People of God at the outset of this third millennium of Christianity.

We thereby submit this votum accompanied by one possible formulation of the Marian doctrine which we, please God, pray may be solemnly defined by your Holiness:

Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of man, gave to humanity from the Cross his mother Mary to be the spiritual Mother of all peoples, the Co-redemptrix, who under and with her Son cooperated in the Redemption of all people; the Mediatrix of all graces, who as Mother brings us the gifts of eternal life; and the Advocate, who presents our prayers to her Son.

On June 7, 2006, our brother, Telesphore Cardinal Toppo, presented the above votum in Latin to His Holiness on behalf of all the cardinal and bishop participants at the 2005 Fatima Symposium, together with the published acta from the symposium. The Holy Father received the votum and the acta with an accentuated gratitude and his expressed intention to study carefully the acta.

We now write to you, brother cardinals and bishops, to inform you of this votum for the solemn definition of Our Lady as the Spiritual Mother of humanity and its essential roles, and respectfully request your own prayerful consideration regarding the possibility of adding your own esteemed assent to this votum to Our Holy Father. We have enclosed a copy of the original Latin votum for your examination and, if you felt so inspired by Our Lady, you would be free to sign and to forward it on to His Holiness.

Certainly, if it so pleased the Holy Father to proceed with this request, any final formation of the definition would in no manner be bound to the formulation of the enclosed votum, but rather left entirely to his unique charism as the Successor of Peter. It is also noteworthy that over the course of the past fifteen years, over 500 bishops have sent their request for this solemn definition to the Holy See, along with approximately 7 million petitions from the Catholic faithful worldwide.

We thank you for your prayerful consideration of this request on behalf of Our Lady, Mother of the Church and Queen of the Apostles. May she guide you in your discernment of this matter to the wisdom of Jesus Christ, our divine Redeemer, through the counsel of the Holy Spirit, all leading to the fulfillment of the perfect will of our Heavenly Father.

With cordial best wishes in Jesus and Mary,
Telesphore Cardinal Toppo, Archbishop of Ranchi, India; President of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India; Luis Cardinal Aponte Martínez, Archbishop Emeritus of San Juan, Puerto Rico, Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil, Major Archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India, Riccardo Cardinal Vidal, Archbishop of Cebu, Philippines
Ernesto Cardinal Corrippio Ahumada, Primate Emeritus of Mexico

Cardinal Co-sponsors of the Fatima Symposium on Marian Coredemption

https://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/zcardmardogm.htm[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Feb 6, 2015
381
2
0
As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
ll includes Mary also zzz98.
[/SUP]
[SUP]
Here we go again, Rom.3:23. Using this passage is a classic case of 'hyperbole' in order to make a point. {rolling eyes} Like I posted awhile back, do you beleive that "ALL" have sinned? I think not! Once again, I'll even go as far as saying that there are millions that haven't! How about "ALL" the babies in the womb, do you beleive that these people have commited personal sins? (you do beleive that life starts at conception, and abortion is murder, do you not?)

How about "ALL" those people that are born severly mentaly handicapped, or have other mental disorders that are dependent on the love of family members or care givers to feed them, clothe them, change them, bathe them? Do you beleive that that "ALL" of them are capable of commiting a personal sin?

How about "ALL" the babies,and toddlers of the world that are under the age of reason? do beleive that "ALL" of them are capable of commiting a personal sin? By your (and others within this forum) personal interpretation of this passage, it sure sounds as if you beleive "ALL" meams "ALL" and all those I've mentioned have and will comit personal sins! I on the other hand....think not!

Now,If you look at that particular passage as a whole, you see that it is not so much referring to every single individual person, because as I mentioned above, there are many exceptions. Jesus, for example, didn't sin. Very small children under the age of reason also haven't sinned, the severly mentaly handicapped havent sinned, for how could they? They don't know what they're doing. So, you see, as much as you don't, or won't want to beleive...there must be another answer. As you read through that whole passage, you begin to see that Paul is referring to the relative status of both Gentiles and Jews as a group; neither of them are more or less worthy than the other. That's where Sacred Tradition comes in - because we feel that that passage is not absolute that every single individual person has sinned, but rather refers to each group of people as a whole, then there are individual exemptions. Sacred Tradition holds that Mary was immaculately conceived, and with this understanding of that Scripture passage, it may not be expressly mentioned, but it is not contradicting, either.

Now were these folks I mentioned born with the stain of Orginal sin? Yes. But are are "ALL" those I mentioned (yes millions, if not ten of millions) capable of commining a personal sin? Absoulty not! If you disagree, I would love to hear yours, or anyone elses for that matter, argument on why they too are part of the "ALL" that Romans 3:23 refurs too.

Now as far as the Blessed Virgin Mary is concerned, she is the exception. By the grace of God, having lived a sinless life was possible for the Blessed Mother because she was spared from Original Sin.


Pax Christi
 

"from henceforth, "ALL" generations shall call me Blessed." ---- Luke 1:48.
 

Hmmmm.... theres that word "ALL" again. Do you do as Holy Scripture tells us..... call her Blessed? I do...... Gladly! :)
[/SUP]
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
You are wrong Utah. Pope Francis is not the Anti_Christ. Who the Anti_Christ will be we do not know. But we do know Pope Francis IS the False Prophet that will deceive the World into accepting the Anti_Christ.
Mike, I apologize for not making myself clear. I did not mention Francis by name, I simply stated a pope. However, you are definitely right, he's false for sure.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
[TABLE="width: 550"]
[TR]
[TD]
A ZENIT DAILY DISPATCH
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Cardinals' Letter Promoting Marian Dogma
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]"Over 500 Bishops Have Sent Their Request for This Solemn Definition"

ROME, 11 FEB. 2008 (ZENIT)
Here is an English translation of the letter written by the five cardinal co-sponsors of the Fatima Symposium on Marian Co-redemption and sent to the world's bishops and cardinals asking them to sign a petition that asks Benedict XVI to proclaim Mary as the Spiritual Mother of Humanity.

The letter was sent Jan. 1, solemnity of the Mother of God, and signed by Cardinal Telesphore Toppo, archbishop of Ranchi, India; Cardinal Luis Aponte Martínez, retired archbishop of San Juan, Puerto Rico; Cardinal Varkey Vithayathil, major archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India; Cardinal Riccardo Vidal, archbishop of Cebu, Philippines; and Cardinal Ernesto Corripio y Ahumada, retired archbishop of Mexico City.
* * *
Dear Brother Eminences and Excellencies:
In May 2005, we, as cardinal co-patrons, sponsored a Mariological symposium convened on the subject of the cooperation of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the work of human Redemption at the favored Fatima shrine in Portugal.

After extensive theological presentations delivered by a significant number of cardinals, bishops, and theologians, we concluded the symposium by enacting a votum to His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI. The votum reads as follows:

Your Holiness, Benedict XVI,
In an effort to enhance the ecumenical mission of the Church, and to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ in all its fullness, we, the undersigned cardinals and bishops who have convened in the favored Marian Shrine of Fatima (May 3-7, 2005), wish to express to you, Most Holy Father, our united hope and desire for the solemn papal definition of the doctrine of the Church regarding Mary Most Holy as the Spiritual Mother of all humanity, the Co-redemptrix with Jesus the Redeemer, Mediatrix of all graces with Jesus the one Mediator, and Advocate with Jesus Christ on behalf of the human race.

In a time of significant confusion amidst the many diverse ecclesial bodies of Christianity, and as well among non-Christian peoples concerning this Marian doctrine, we believe the time opportune for a solemn definition of clarification regarding the constant teaching of the Church concerning the Mother of the Redeemer and her unique cooperation (cf. Lumen Gentium, n. 61) in the work of Redemption, as well as her subsequent roles in the distribution of grace and intercession for the human family.

It is of great importance, Holy Father, that peoples of other religious traditions receive the clarification on the highest level of authentic doctrinal certainty that we can provide, that the Catholic Church essentially distinguishes between the sole role of Jesus Christ, divine and human Redeemer of the world, and the unique though secondary and dependent human participation of the Mother of Christ in the great work of Redemption.

Therefore, Your Holiness, with filial obedience and respect, we wish to present you with this votum of our solidarity of hope for the papal definition of the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God as the spiritual Mother of all peoples in her three maternal roles as Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix of all graces and Advocate, as the ultimate expression of doctrinal clarity at the service of our Christian and non-Christian brothers and sisters who are not in communion with Rome, and as well as for the greater understanding and appreciation of this revealed doctrine concerning the Mother of the Redeemer by the People of God at the outset of this third millennium of Christianity.

We thereby submit this votum accompanied by one possible formulation of the Marian doctrine which we, please God, pray may be solemnly defined by your Holiness:

Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of man, gave to humanity from the Cross his mother Mary to be the spiritual Mother of all peoples, the Co-redemptrix, who under and with her Son cooperated in the Redemption of all people; the Mediatrix of all graces, who as Mother brings us the gifts of eternal life; and the Advocate, who presents our prayers to her Son.

On June 7, 2006, our brother, Telesphore Cardinal Toppo, presented the above votum in Latin to His Holiness on behalf of all the cardinal and bishop participants at the 2005 Fatima Symposium, together with the published acta from the symposium. The Holy Father received the votum and the acta with an accentuated gratitude and his expressed intention to study carefully the acta.

We now write to you, brother cardinals and bishops, to inform you of this votum for the solemn definition of Our Lady as the Spiritual Mother of humanity and its essential roles, and respectfully request your own prayerful consideration regarding the possibility of adding your own esteemed assent to this votum to Our Holy Father. We have enclosed a copy of the original Latin votum for your examination and, if you felt so inspired by Our Lady, you would be free to sign and to forward it on to His Holiness.

Certainly, if it so pleased the Holy Father to proceed with this request, any final formation of the definition would in no manner be bound to the formulation of the enclosed votum, but rather left entirely to his unique charism as the Successor of Peter. It is also noteworthy that over the course of the past fifteen years, over 500 bishops have sent their request for this solemn definition to the Holy See, along with approximately 7 million petitions from the Catholic faithful worldwide.

We thank you for your prayerful consideration of this request on behalf of Our Lady, Mother of the Church and Queen of the Apostles. May she guide you in your discernment of this matter to the wisdom of Jesus Christ, our divine Redeemer, through the counsel of the Holy Spirit, all leading to the fulfillment of the perfect will of our Heavenly Father.

With cordial best wishes in Jesus and Mary,
Telesphore Cardinal Toppo, Archbishop of Ranchi, India; President of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India; Luis Cardinal Aponte Martínez, Archbishop Emeritus of San Juan, Puerto Rico, Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil, Major Archbishop of Ernakulam-Angamaly, India, Riccardo Cardinal Vidal, Archbishop of Cebu, Philippines
Ernesto Cardinal Corrippio Ahumada, Primate Emeritus of Mexico

Cardinal Co-sponsors of the Fatima Symposium on Marian Coredemption

https://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/zcardmardogm.htm[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Good Golly, almost made me puke reading that.
 
Feb 6, 2015
381
2
0
Its a shame that no Catholic will ever enter into Heaven. None of the Popes will ever enter into Heaven. Its a shame they sold their soul to Satan just for their Pride.
Lol! I think if you are lucky enough to get there, your going to be in for a big surprise!


Pax Christi
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
Now this guy is hilarious
He speaks the Truth and your response is that he's hilarious? It would be hilarious but your eternal peril is not a laughing matter. Z-man, if tomorrow you awakened and the pope declared that Mary was indeed born in sin, how would you respond?
 
Z

zzz98

Guest
I've had some fun here today and I will leave for awhile before anyone gets to upset.
 
Z

zzz98

Guest
He speaks the Truth and your response is that he's hilarious? It would be hilarious but your eternal peril is not a laughing matter. Z-man, if tomorrow you awakened and the pope declared that Mary was indeed born in sin, how would you respond?
One last thing, he can't do that. That's what is being misunderstood
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
One last thing, he can't do that. That's what is being misunderstood
Of course he can. Saul had the epiphany of all epiphanies, and if it happened to him, it could happen to anyone. Don't put God in a box by saying this can't happen.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
I've had some fun here today and I will leave for awhile before anyone gets to upset.
It is a rough site for catholics and they should know it. But your getting a lot of truth, whether you know it or not.

[h=1]mwc68

Banned
[/h]
 
Feb 6, 2015
381
2
0
What is the real reason?
Well........... I'll give ya a couple of days to think about it, just might do you some good.
Then I'll tell what I beleive the real reason to be. :)
 


Pax Christi
 
4

49

Guest
Good Golly, almost made me puke reading that.
Could not even read it all myself. Mary is dead...dead, dead, dead. Jesus did NOT give Mary to be the spiritual mother of all peoples...He spoke to Mary and said "woman behold thy son", and to His disciple "behold thy mother", and he took her unto his own house. How did they get mother of all mankind from that? Not to mention all the other nonsense. Praying to Mary is akin to praying to a false god in my opinion. Mary had an incredible honor...she gave birth to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Other than that, she was a sinner as is the rest of mankind. (Can already hear the gasps of horror).
 
Feb 6, 2015
381
2
0
It is a rough site for catholics and they should know it. But your getting a lot of truth, whether you know it or not.
Lol..... I don't find it rough at all. I happen to find it a pleasure leading you to the truth, and leading you from your errors of the Catholic faith!

Pax Christi


[/QUOTE]
 
Z

zzz98

Guest
Could not even read it all myself. Mary is dead...dead, dead, dead. Jesus did NOT give Mary to be the spiritual mother of all peoples...He spoke to Mary and said "woman behold thy son", and to His disciple "behold thy mother", and he took her unto his own house. How did they get mother of all mankind from that? Not to mention all the other nonsense. Praying to Mary is akin to praying to a false god in my opinion. Mary had an incredible honor...she gave birth to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Other than that, she was a sinner as is the rest of mankind. (Can already hear the gasps of horror).
GASP, OMG, WHAT? LOL , I'm out
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
Could not even read it all myself. Mary is dead...dead, dead, dead. Jesus did NOT give Mary to be the spiritual mother of all peoples...He spoke to Mary and said "woman behold thy son", and to His disciple "behold thy mother", and he took her unto his own house. How did they get mother of all mankind from that? Not to mention all the other nonsense. Praying to Mary is akin to praying to a false god in my opinion. Mary had an incredible honor...she gave birth to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Other than that, she was a sinner as is the rest of mankind. (Can already hear the gasps of horror).
Technically the woman did not give birth to our Lord and Savior. She gave birth to Jesus, His humanity.

Christ is deity, and eternal.......cannot be birthed, cannot die.

Jesus~~Humanity
Christ~~Deity

The woman gave birth to the body that was prepared for His Deity.
 
Feb 6, 2015
381
2
0
Could not even read it all myself. Mary is dead...dead, dead, dead. Jesus did NOT give Mary to be the spiritual mother of all peoples...He spoke to Mary and said "woman behold thy son", and to His disciple "behold thy mother", and he took her unto his own house. How did they get mother of all mankind from that? Not to mention all the other nonsense. Praying to Mary is akin to praying to a false god in my opinion. Mary had an incredible honor...she gave birth to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Other than that, she was a sinner as is the rest of mankind. (Can already hear the gasps of horror).
Nope.... no gasps of horror here, heard all these doltish theories before. All your going to get from me is a shaking of the head, and rolling of the eyes in wonder how people can actually beleive this nonsence. About the only thing I agree with you, is that it is nothing more than your personal opinion. Nothing more. However, with it, (your opinion) and five dollars you may could get yourself a "Happy Meal" at McDonalds.
 
 

Pax Christi