Replacement/Supersessionism Theology,Why it Matters

[eternally-gratefull]

And as He promised He gave them the land after the return from Exile when Jews and Israelites gathered to the land from many places.

They never returned. They never left. Only some of them left. Many stayed in the land, Babyon even made one of them a puppet king.

Their complete dispersion did not occure until 70 AD. when everyone was scattered throughout the roman empire.

He had made clear in Numbers 14.11-12 He saw Himself as able to disinherit them and replace them with a nation formed from one man, now Jesus Christ. Israel have forfeited the promises, though He may well bring many Jews to Himself in the future. What He is not bound to do is give them the land. And Heb 11.10-6 makes clear that it is a heavenly land.

Gods promise to them was unconditional. Only he walked through the animals. he put Abraham to sleep. Abraham (or his descendants) had no part in the covenant.

it was never theirs to reject or accept. it was always and still is Gods.

if he reneges on his promise, that's on Him, not on a nation of men and women and children.

 

[valiant]

Replacement Theology somehow has the Church be the old Israel, minus the consequences of breaking the Mosaic law.
Rome, with it's kingdom here on earth is a prime example, all the promises go to the Church...the curses remain on the Jews.
This has festered anti semitism throughout the RCC history.

I do not believe in replacement theology. No one has replaced anyone. What has happened is that the Jews who rejected the Messiah have been completely set aside, unless they return to Him, the Jews who believed in Him formed the new nation (Matt 21.43), and Gentile proselytes have joined with them in believing in the Messiah and have thereby become part of the true Israel (Rpm 11.12-24). Thus the Israel which is the true church composed of genuine believers are fulfilling the law by being obedient to Christ. They are not like the unbelieving, disobedient old Israel.

The RCC church is NOT Israel and never has been. It is only true believers who have become a part of the true Israel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not believe in replacement theology. No one has replaced anyone. What has happened is that the Jews who rejected the Messiah have been completely set aside, unless they return to Him, the Jews who believed in Him formed the new nation (Matt 21.43), and Gentile proselytes have joined with them in believing in the Messiah and have thereby become part of the true Israel (Rpm 11.12-24). Thus the Israel which is the true church composed of genuine believers are fulfilling the law by being obedient to Christ. They are not like the unbelieving, disobedient old Israel.

The RCC church is NOT Israel and never has been. It is only true believers who have become a part of the true Israel.

I am an American who believes in Christ. That's my nation.

God did not form a new nation. He continued to build on his family. which he started building with adam. centuries before the name Israel was even given to a seed of Abraham.

 

[Grandpa]

So when Go said get circumcised. This is the sign of the covenant between me and you forever.

He was speaking spiritually? and how one is to get saved?

Again, the confusion is in the interpretation.

What is salvic. and what is just a promise of blessing..

When we are first saved its hard to understand what is literally physical and what is spiritual, so we try to do both simultaneously.

You know, just in case...

The flesh profits nothing. The flesh cannot please God.

The Lord tries to explain spiritual things to carnal men. The carnal men constantly mis-understand. Mis-interpret. Mis-apply.

I suppose I don't understand being blessed by anything other than Salvation. I don't see how a person can be blessed and not have Salvation.

So I guess my answer is, I don't fully understand Gods Words and His Ways.

 

[crossnote]

I wonder how a saved person can have any emotion toward an unsaved person that is anything but a kind of sadness for their ignorance.

I don't think racism is going to help anyone be saved in Christ.

I'm not following. God did choose Israel over the other nations to reveal Himself through His Word.
Emotion? As saved regenerate people, I hope we have the same heart Christ has toward all people.

 

[kaylagrl]

John 3:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


I don't really understand Replacement theology to its fullest. But doesn't the whole world fall under these scriptures? Even physical Jews?

Or do physical Jews get a pass just because of their physical lineage? I just don't really understand elevating a people group that are without Christ just because of their nationality. Its what supremacists do.



On the other hand, we cannot condemn or judge any people group because we were just like them at one point or another. Without God in this world. The other thing I wonder about is how does anyone know who is a descendant of the original 12 tribes of Israel?

As per Romans 11 the Jews will be saved the same way we are. The Bible says they will see whom they have pierced and morn. No Jews dont get a pass just because they are Jews. Replacement theology is teaching that God has broken His everlasting covenant with His chosen people,whom he calls the APPLE OF HIS EYE. Its heresy and been the cause of murder and suffering of the Jews. I will get into that further soon.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When we are first saved its hard to understand what is literally physical and what is spiritual, so we try to do both simultaneously.

You know, just in case...

The flesh profits nothing. The flesh cannot please God.

The Lord tries to explain spiritual things to carnal men. The carnal men constantly mis-understand. Mis-interpret. Mis-apply.

I suppose I don't understand being blessed by anything other than Salvation. I don't see how a person can be blessed and not have Salvation.

So I guess my answer is, I don't fully understand Gods Words and His Ways.

nothing wrong with thus. I am still learning myself. and am sure I will have to change my thinking continually as my false beliefs are exposed.

If we are not open. We are in serious trouble and our growth will be stunted.

 

[valiant]

They never returned. They never left. Only some of them left. Many stayed in the land, Babyon even made one of them a puppet king.

Their complete dispersion did not occure until 70 AD. when everyone was scattered throughout the roman empire.

God never said that there had to be a complete dispersion. He merely promised that He would gather His scattered people, which He did. He did not promise that all would return, only that they would have the opportunity. But many did return from all parts as we know from the situation is 1st century.

At no stage was Palestine ever completely emptied of Jews. The exile was only of leading Jews. You manufacture a dream world to suit your ideas.

LOL today there are more Jews in America than in Palestine. So where does that leave your idea of a return? The returnees are an unbelieving remnant, they are not a fulfilment of prophecy.

Gods promise to them was unconditional. Only he walked through the animals. he put Abraham to sleep. Abraham (or his descendants) had no part in the covenant.

If it was unconditional why did He say to Moses that they would forfeit it and be replaced by nation formed from one man? He Himself clearly did not see it as unconditional.

it was never theirs to reject or accept. it was always and still is Gods.

yes it was never theirs and it never will be. And God has decided that the fulfilment will be in a heavenly land for all true believers (Heb 11.10-16). So forget your worldly ideas and let God do what He has actually promised in the New Testament. Nowhere in the New Testament is there a promise of Israel returning to the land. Strange how Jesus, Paul and Peter forgot to mention it.

if he reneges on his promise, that's on Him, not on a nation of men and women and children.

He has fulfilled His promise in a better way. God was not interested in physical possessions. They are of the earth, earthy. As Hebrews says WHAT ABRAHAM WAS LOOKING FOR WAS A BETTER LAND. Believe the New Testament. It is sad how you pretribbers are so caught up in the idea of physical possessions that you cannot see that the New Testament takes you beyond that.

 

[kaylagrl]

Replacement Theology somehow has the Church be the old Israel, minus the consequences of breaking the Mosaic law.
Rome, with it's kingdom here on earth is a prime example, all the promises go to the Church...the curses remain on the Jews.
This has festered anti semitism throughout the RCC history.

These people want to live under two covenants both old and new.They want the promises of the Jews and those of the Gentiles.A foot in both Testaments. And yes the RCC was a big proponent of this theology but even they had the common sense to repent of it!

 

[crossnote]

When we are first saved its hard to understand what is literally physical and what is spiritual, so we try to do both simultaneously.

You know, just in case...

The flesh profits nothing. The flesh cannot please God.

The Lord tries to explain spiritual things to carnal men. The carnal men constantly mis-understand. Mis-interpret. Mis-apply.

I suppose I don't understand being blessed by anything other than Salvation. I don't see how a person can be blessed and not have Salvation.

So I guess my answer is, I don't fully understand Gods Words and His Ways.

God cut physical Israel off temporarily from their land in 70AD , Temple and all. According to the regathering promises wouldn't you say that will be physical as well?

 

[crossnote]

As per Romans 11 the Jews will be saved the same way we are. The Bible says they will see whom they have pierced and morn. No Jews dont get a pass just because they are Jews. Replacement theology is teaching that God has broken His everlasting covenant with His chosen people,whom he calls the APPLE OF HIS EYE. Its heresy and been the cause of murder and suffering of the Jews. I will get into that further soon.

Uh oh, that feisty dog avatar is back.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm gonna say it

This thread contains some extremely bad mashed up scripture...shoved in where it does not belong and cut out of where it does belong

Where did some of you get your ideas from? Israel was never God's chosen people? Really? you had to have cut out portions, nay BOOKS, of the Bible to enter that realm

I also have not found in scripture where Gentiles are grafted into Israel? There are references to spiritual Israel, but where does the Bible go so far as to say Gentiles become Jewish?

Like I said, what a mish mash.....sad

you are a brave girl kala....LOL! What do some churches teach? or are these wanderings in the desert the result of hermits?

Lol not so much brave but I see what is happening in the world and the rising of antisemetism again and this old damnable false theology. It sickens me that anyone would back this false doctrine. But it is on their own heads. Im standing on the side of Israel. Whom God said to "bless and pray for their peace" as all Christians should.

 

[crossnote]

These people want to live under two covenants both old and new.They want the promises of the Jews and those of the Gentiles.A foot in both Testaments. And yes the RCC was a big proponent of this theology but even they had the common sense to repent of it!

I guess on that count of repentance by Rome, I have my suspicions as it is quite a chamelion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God never said that there had to be a complete dispersion. He merely promised that He would gather His scattered people, which He did. He did not promise that all would return, only that they would have the opportunity. But many did return from all parts as we know from the situation is 1st century.

Lev 26 says they will be completely removed, thank you.


You have not read ez 37 have you? and many other prophesies concerning this event. Which state clearly. When they return, they will never again be divided, Never again worship false Gods, Never again be disobedient.

So tell me, when did this occure?

At no stage was Palestine ever completely emptied of Jews. The exile was only of leading Jews. You manufacture a dream world to suit your ideas.

so in AD 70, they were not killed and led away, only the leaders?? how many leaders where there?

Thanks..

LOL today there are more Jews in America than in Palestine. So where does that leave your idea of a return? The returnees are an unbelieving remnant, they are not a fulfilment of prophecy.

Yes there are, and thank you.

They have not repented yet. They must repent as a nation before God allows them to return. so your point is mute.

I never said they were restored. Are being restored. or anything like it. They will be restored when Christ returns, AFTER they repent, Not before.

If it was unconditional why did He say to Moses that they would forfeit it and be replaced by nation formed from one man? He Himself clearly did not see it as unconditional.

So God lied?

God never told moses he would forfeit his covenant with Abraham, WHy would God tell moses something he never said to Abraham, I think your trying to draw things which were never said.

as for numbers, you need to read the whole thing, and how Moses called God out on it, and claimed God needs to keep his promise, or Egypt would know God is not a God that is able to give the people he promised the land he gave them, What kind of God is that?

Sadly, I fear that may be the God you worship?

yes it was never theirs and it never will be. And God has decided that the fulfilment will be in a heavenly land for all true believers (Heb 11.10-16). So forget your worldly ideas and let God do what He has actually promised in the New Testament. Nowhere in the New Testament is there a promise of Israel returning to the land. Strange how Jesus, Paul and Peter forgot to mention it.

paul did mention it, in romans 11

John mentioned it in revelation.

It was not an issue in the early days of the church, like rome made it to be 300 years later by inserting her antisemetic Israel hating doctrine into the fold with all her other heretical doctrines.

. So there was no need to discuss it much, God gave enough information in the OT. that's all we really need.

He has fulfilled His promise in a better way. God was not interested in physical possessions. They are of the earth, earthy. As Hebrew says WHAT ABRAHAM WAS LOOKING FOR WAS A BETTER LAND. Believe the New Testament

So if your parent promise you a car. and never give it to you. Your ok with that? How truly trustworthy would your parents be if they did that?

You claim God did that very thing. Shame..

 

[kaylagrl]

Uh oh, that feisty dog avatar is back.

Yes,thats my boy,he passed away last night. I tried hard to save him but could not. Sadness in my heart today. He was my best buddy. But he sure was feisty.He fought for an hour but I finally had to let him go...

 

[crossnote]

Yes,thats my boy,he passed away last night. I tried hard to save him but could not. Sadness in my heart today. He was my best buddy. But he sure was feisty.He fought for an hour but I finally had to let him go...

Ug, sorry to hear, ours of 14 years, past in April and the gut feeling still lingers.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes,thats my boy,he passed away last night. I tried hard to save him but could not. Sadness in my heart today. He was my best buddy. But he sure was feisty.He fought for an hour but I finally had to let him go...

so sorry to hear that. Dogs are family too!!

 

[passing_through]

My thanks to all those who have refuted the Replacement Doctrine, the Jews are still in covenant with God, do you think the Davidic Covernant has bee made of non effect, no it is eternal, and the Jews ever remain God's chosen people.

 

[kaylagrl]

Ug, sorry to hear, ours of 14 years, past in April and the gut feeling still lingers.

Yes Polar was 14 yrs old too. He was my protector all those years. He wouldnt let anyone near me but oddly enough he loved my husband. He never had an issue with him being around me. We raced him to the vet last night but he was having a grand mal seizure by that point.I kept clearing his throat and calling to him to try and bring him out of it but he just couldnt. Ive lost a lot of close family to cancer so it brought it all back again. I felt so helpless.I hope he knew I was trying to help and not hurt him. Anyway Im derailing my own thread here.lol Thanks for the thoughts tho.

 

[kaylagrl]

so sorry to hear that. Dogs are family too!!

Thank you,he surely was. He traveled with me in ministry for 10yrs. I was able to laugh a little last night when I said "he's peed in more states and two countries then any dog I know! He was a faithful old boy.