GOP Presidential Nomination

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Dec 18, 2013
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2012. The year Chris Christie could have been king. Destiny called and he missed the boat.
Good thing he didn't though seeing Bridgegate. Somewhat surprised he has not been taken to task for that yet in the debate. Bridgegate is very symbolic of the GOP party right now. Willing to shoot themselves in the foot and let citizens die just to spite the Democrats, but in reality they only make the common man hate the GOP even more.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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Bridgegate has been overlooked because he hasn't gained any real traction with voters.

That is when the dirt tends to fly. Until then, political orthodoxy states that it's best to leave your political opponent alone. Not even recognize their existence unless pressed to do so.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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Medicare and Medicaid is not forcing people to buy insurance like Obamacare is. Medicare and Medicaid are promises to the people made by the people long before I was born. They are paid for by the government. Obamacare by contrast forces individuals to purchase a good or service from a private corporation on condition that they are alive.


As for the Iraq War, don't try to defend the Iraq War, it was the biggest mistake in US history. A war based on a lie...



America is a nation of immigrants. It's absurd to be anti-immigration. Might as well spit in your ancestor's face while you're at it. Way I see it unless they are part of the cartels or the street gangs, give them amnesty. The Hispanics are largely Christian too. I'll take the Christian Hispanic immigrants that may have crossed the border illegally to escape their tragic war over the hordes of muslims the GOP and Democrats alike have been letting pour into our country 100% legally. As for anchor babies, if you're born on US soil you are as much a US citizen and king of America as I am.
John Kasich was suggesting a form of government mandated healthcare, not Medicare or Medicaid, years ago. Regarding Medicare, it was created in the 1960's. The cost was something like $2 billion a year, back then. Now it's costing around $1 trillion dollars. 60 years ago there were 40 working people for every retired person on social security. Today there are 3 working people for every person on social security. You will never see a dime of it. No politician seems willing to address it. It was a ponzy scheme to begin with. The average retiree receives more in social security in 4-5 years than he paid into it. I paid into a state retirement system for 9 years and was given a disability retirement. I paid in a couple hundred dollars each month, or about $22,000 total, after 9 years. Since being retired in 1994, with full medical and dental and vision care, in addition to a 2% cola on my retirement check, I have received over $500,000 in pay and another $300,000 in medical benefits, and I am only 57. There is no magic way of turning $22k into $800k. That is why all public sector pension funds will go bust and why social security and medicare will go bust. Not enough people paying in and too many people receiving lavish payouts.



It seems absurd that you view immigrants the exact same way you view illegal immigrants. I'm not anti-immigrant, I'm anti-law breakers. My Swedish ancestors came here and lawfully applied for work and citizenship. Women are flying to the U.S. when they are ready to deliver a child, knowing that child will be a citizen, and then they too will be allowed to stay. That's not how it was intended. The result will be that Democrats will win the White house with votes from the fast growing latino population. Don't be shocked when Hillary wins the state of Texas next fall.

I'm going to finish with a copy and paste of Democrats making clear statements about Saddam Hussein and WMD's. Foreign and domestic intelligence all agreed that he had them and was prepared to use them. After the war, it was determined he was still a few years away from having nuclear weapons and reliable missiles to deliver them. But after the first Gulf War, our intelligence agencies determined they were also wrong, and that Saddam was only months away from having WMD's that our intelligence felt he would not have for 5-6 more years. Which is better, going to war six months to six years too soon, or planning to go to war, but watching Saddam, or in modern terms, Iran, use a WMD on Israel a few months before you planned to bomb them? That was the decision both Democrats and Republicans and George Bush had to make. Read these comments...




"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

NOW THE DEMOCRATS SAY PRESIDENT BUSH LIED, THAT THERE NEVER WERE ANY WMD'S AND HE TOOK US TO WAR FOR HIS OIL BUDDIES??? Right!!!
 
Dec 18, 2013
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@Sinnerman I am quite aware the Medicare and Medicaid won't be around for my generation seeing how terribly the generations in power right now doth mismanage just about everything. The sad thing is it is still entirely feasible to fix Medicare and Medicaid, though that window of opportunity is fast shutting. If we didn't waste our time and money on Obamacare and the Iraq War lies, Medicare and Medicaid could have been fixed for my generation.

As for immigration, I believe that it is lawful for them to cross the border as refugees considering the condition of warfare happening in their countries, particularly with Mexico. Lol I guess on this one I have a little leeway seeing as the farthest ancestor I am aware of was at Valley Forge, so I am American to the hilt. Though other ancestors were direct immigrants from the Irish and German immigration booms around the turn of the 20th Century. So I have some pity for the immigrants. Remember, since 9/11 literally millions of muslims have been allowed into the country 100% legally. I'll take Christian Hispanics crossing the border illegally over the hordes of the worshippers of the idol of Mecca the DNC and GOP has been importing full legally. Don't think more Hispanics guarantees a Democrat victory. Two sons of Hispanic immigrants are running in the GOP this cycle, and they are actually tolerable candidates compared to Trump and the SDA cultist.

If you think a bunch of quotes showing how much of a liar and sucker John Kerry, Al Gore, Pelosi, and the rest of the Rat Pack is will sway me to support the Iraq War, then you are quite wrong. Their complicity in sending my people to die, be maimed, and suffer mental anguish for their war based on lies has not been forgotten. Don't think it lets Bush and the GOPers off the hook though either. There's a reason my generation don't trust either party or the government as a whole. It all stems from their lies to get us involved in Iraq.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Bridgegate has been overlooked because he hasn't gained any real traction with voters.

That is when the dirt tends to fly. Until then, political orthodoxy states that it's best to leave your political opponent alone. Not even recognize their existence unless pressed to do so.
After back to back failures with Bush and Obama and the state they are leaving us in we simply cannot afford to be politically orthodox and let the DNC and GOP threaten us with the possibility of someone like Trump, Carson, Christie, Bush, Hillary, Sanders, or Fiorina get the Presidency They might still be able to beguile this very easily beguiled public, but we can't let them do it without a struggle.

EDIT: To continue our high literary allusions prevalent in this topic; Do not go gentle into that good night.
 
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Oct 16, 2015
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Bridgegate has been overlooked because he hasn't gained any real traction with voters.

That is when the dirt tends to fly. Until then, political orthodoxy states that it's best to leave your political opponent alone. Not even recognize their existence unless pressed to do so.
You probably recall the name Gennifer Flowers? Word is that she is planning a Bill Cosby type gathering of women who voluntarily or under duress had relations with then Governor Clinton. I would expect her to wait until next year some time. No surprise, she is releasing a book soon. All of these woman plan to discuss the bad behavior of President Clinton. Then Flowers, who did see him for over a decade when he was married and Governor, plans to play some of the audio tapes she recorded of her and Bill on the telephone. She suggests that Bill explained to her that Hillary knew of his affairs and didn't mind because she preferred the company of women.

It all sounds a bit like Dan Rather's attempt to destroy George Bush just before the election with his made up story. That story is becoming a movie.
 
Oct 16, 2015
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@Sinnerman I am quite aware the Medicare and Medicaid won't be around for my generation seeing how terribly the generations in power right now doth mismanage just about everything. The sad thing is it is still entirely feasible to fix Medicare and Medicaid, though that window of opportunity is fast shutting. If we didn't waste our time and money on Obamacare and the Iraq War lies, Medicare and Medicaid could have been fixed for my generation.

As for immigration, I believe that it is lawful for them to cross the border as refugees considering the condition of warfare happening in their countries, particularly with Mexico. Lol I guess on this one I have a little leeway seeing as the farthest ancestor I am aware of was at Valley Forge, so I am American to the hilt. Though other ancestors were direct immigrants from the Irish and German immigration booms around the turn of the 20th Century. So I have some pity for the immigrants. Remember, since 9/11 literally millions of muslims have been allowed into the country 100% legally. I'll take Christian Hispanics crossing the border illegally over the hordes of the worshippers of the idol of Mecca the DNC and GOP has been importing full legally. Don't think more Hispanics guarantees a Democrat victory. Two sons of Hispanic immigrants are running in the GOP this cycle, and they are actually tolerable candidates compared to Trump and the SDA cultist.

If you think a bunch of quotes showing how much of a liar and sucker John Kerry, Al Gore, Pelosi, and the rest of the Rat Pack is will sway me to support the Iraq War, then you are quite wrong. Their complicity in sending my people to die, be maimed, and suffer mental anguish for their war based on lies has not been forgotten. Don't think it lets Bush and the GOPers off the hook though either. There's a reason my generation don't trust either party or the government as a whole. It all stems from their lies to get us involved in Iraq.
I'm not sure you fully understand why Medicare and Medicaid are unsustainable. It isn't so much mismanagement, and Obamacare is not to blame. The recent wars are also not to blame. They are entitlements. When you look at a pie chart, like the one I posted, Medicare starts off as 1% of federal spending. Then 2%. Then 5%, and so on until it is now a huge part of that spending pie chart. The American people, are clear about what type of politicians they prefer. They want ones that provide lots of government benefits and don't require anyone to pay for those benefits. Lower taxes and more benefits. That is who the American people keep voting into office. The result is Obamacare, a huge expansion of Medicaid, and a Medicare program that has grown too big to pay for. Same with social security. There are not enough people paying in to fund the growing numbers of people retiring and taking out. It's simple math. Paul Ryan tried to discuss the shortfalls and explain to everyone that we can't keep ignoring the problem and Democrats ran television commercials showing him shoving and old lady in a wheelchair off a cliff.

I'm not sure there is any war going on in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, or Mexico. They are not refugees. They are people who saw television ads in their countries saying they can become U.S. citizens if the illegally cross into the U.S. They know they can get free medical care and free social services, so they come. There are over 10 million of them. Maybe if you lived in Texas or Arizona, you'd better understand. Law enforcement officers are being shot and killed by illegals, they are committing violent crimes, driving drunk and killing innocent people, and you have already seen the high profile illegals who have murdered innocent women in California, who were previously deported on numerous occasions. The cost to taxpayers is estimated at over $200 billion dollars. Money that could have been used for social security or Medicare. Also, the many people flying here from China and other Asian countries to give birth, are also not at war. They are simply looking for a way to become citizens.

War is a constant. Bob Dylan sang a Christian song saying; there will be no peace...and the world won't cease...until He (Jesus) returns. There will always be wars. We can ignore it like we tried to do in the 1940's, and make it worse. over 54 million people died during WWII. We can use our best technology and best on the ground intelligence to ascertain what our enemies are planning to do. It's not an exact science. When will Iran have a nuclear weapon? Six months or six years? Jimmy Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize after he met with North Korean leader Kim Jong Ill (SP) and returned to the U.S. stating we had no worries, North Korea did not have any nuclear weapons or the technology to make nuclear weapons. Carter based this on a handshake. Since then, North Korea has stated that if they were ever attacked by the U.S., the first thing they would do is drop a nuclear bomb on Soul, South Korea, killing many millions of people. The bomb is their insurance. Iran, on the other hand, wants to kill all Jews and will gladly drop a nuke on Israel, with no concern about what happens next. Unless you have really good spies, you don't know for sure what the other side is up to. Every government on the planet agreed that Iraq was trying to build nuclear and chemical weapons. We even discovered some of the people selling them the parts. Like Iran, they needed a little more time to get the weapons made. You don't know if they would have completed such weapons if we avoided war. If Germany had two more years, they might have created their own atomic bombs. We used our spies and special forces to destroy their heavy water facility and delay their atomic bomb plans. Don't over-simplify the Iraq war. People in the intelligence services know a lot more than us about who and where the threats are in the world.


Next Tuesday, Rand Paul will be stage right, at the #8 podium. On the opposite end of the stage will be John Kasich, the #7 candidate. Christie and Huckabee are out, and will be on the undercard debate. Kasich has moved from 1% to 4% on the Fox Poll or he would be out on Tuesday. He is running out of time. This debate will likely cover the debt and deficit spending and social security and medicare entitlements that are all unsustainable. Nobody will tell the truth and say it's too late to save them and that in eight years, whoever is President, will be dealing with near total economic collapse. Christie was the only candidate to tell people that entitlements are already at 71% of the federal budget and will surpass 100% in a decade, almost certainly causing economic collapse. I can't wait to hear them dodge the questions.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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@Sinnerman I understand that at current fertility rates its not possible. Though people still popping out babies, quite a bit from this generation frankly. So don't think that one can't be turned around. Doesn't matter even if we get our population growth back up if the jobs and productivity ain't there. This is what I mean by it be possible to fix with better management and if we didn't spend a few trillions dollars on a war based on a lie and on Obamacare, also based on a lie. We could have supplemented it and tried to prolong it. Seeing as that is too late, it's pretty much do or die time to salvage Medicare/Medicaid and SS, but it will take much more effort and pain.

We have to obviously cut spending and raise taxes, something that on the surface both parties bristle at, but it can be done without harming the economy, and can even grow the economy if done shrewdly. It's been done before under Kasich's leadership in Congress, particularly as Chairman of the Budget Committee in the 1990s. Also I do like Paul Ryan even though he ran with Mitt. If Ryan is Speaker and you get someone good like Kasich in there then we have our last real chance to turn the American economic ship around. If we pick one of these other people that either have terrible records or not a governance record to speak of, then I really can't see America lasting much longer economically. That's that bottom line I was talking about. Kasich and Bush are the only ones with the proven records of results to actually fix some of these problems.

On the immigration, I have all ready said before the desire is to keep the largely Christian peaceful immigrants whose only crime is fleeing their oppressed lands. The cartels and street gangs, you will hear nary a complaint from me if you wish to deport them. That is indeed what the government ought to even do. To make clear, not a meritocracy like Rubio has been suggesting, cause we're not going to refuse the poor, that's not Christian. Rather a Christocratic approach, if I may make a neologism. If their only crime is fleeing from a known area under oppression like Cuba or Mexico and they have committed no violent crime, and if they are Christian we ought give them amnesty. I will support amnesty for any Christian. That will even help supplement our population problem and revenue problem with Medicare and SS by turning them from getting benefits for no reason into tax payers. America even has a bit of legal leeway and excuse to cut off the largely atheist Europeans and idol-worshipping muslims and focus on the Christians from Latin America without breaking the First Amendment. Given the massive scope of the migration in the Americas and that the USA is the imperial hegemon of the Americas as per Monroe Doctrine, the US is thus responsible for the Americas, North and South (minus Canada whom the wily Brits still own)

I'm not a pacifist, but war is no good in this generation. World War 3 all ready started a few years ago, it's just more chaotic and backstabby and factionalized than the previous two. Nevertheless you got active hot wars on three continents, with involvement from many more countries where the direct battlefield has not yet sprung up. So it is by definition a World War, at least since the Arab Spring. America ain't like noble crusaders though. America and the West have become secularists, and secularists and atheists have no understanding. There is no good guy faction/nation in this war.

In all wars there is always some good moments, some good stories, even in the worst war there's always a good story, even from some of the worst factions. Its also a true maxim; "War aint' what it used to be". There's still those similar elements, but whose side is anyone even on anymore with all the backstabbery? What are they even fighting for? Even when it's not for outright lies like Iraq it's still full of wonk. Like I get the rationale for going into Afghanistan, kinda left with no choice after 9/11. However look how even in Afghanistan War it turned out Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan for years and America was funding Pakistan, the very same people backstabbin' us man! The government even knew this and America still funded them and still are even. Funny you mention Iran, look what America is doing with this absurd Iran Deal. Are we even going to pay them to build WMDs just to declare war on them? War is a family feud. War in this time era is madness. Wars are wrought with lies and corruption and tragedy. War is so easy to begin, but so bloody to end.

Lol you're gonna rack up them likes from me with your awesome allusions and good song picks. One good hippy tune deserves another. Lol, I suppose since we've alluded to everything from King Arthur to Ivanhoe on this topic, perhaps a more modern fairy tale be suitable. The Bob Dylan song (Man of Peace) reminded me of a short fable from a bygone era before I was born when the most evil corrupt men that have ruled the world in my lifetime were but mere youths. How have the hippies become the great warmongers and tyrants of the 21st Century?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBx-hHf4BE
[video=youtube;cTBx-hHf4BE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTBx-hHf4BE[/video]
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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You probably recall the name Gennifer Flowers? Word is that she is planning a Bill Cosby type gathering of women who voluntarily or under duress had relations with then Governor Clinton. I would expect her to wait until next year some time. No surprise, she is releasing a book soon. All of these woman plan to discuss the bad behavior of President Clinton. Then Flowers, who did see him for over a decade when he was married and Governor, plans to play some of the audio tapes she recorded of her and Bill on the telephone. She suggests that Bill explained to her that Hillary knew of his affairs and didn't mind because she preferred the company of women.

It all sounds a bit like Dan Rather's attempt to destroy George Bush just before the election with his made up story. That story is becoming a movie.
Hillary will be bombarded, but she's made of Teflon if not something close to Teflon.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Hillary will be bombarded, but she's made of Teflon if not something close to Teflon.
Hillary is not a good candidate. People simply dislike the bulk of the GOPers even more than her, and not without reason, they are living parodies of the GOP pop culture stereotypes like a circus. Technically it's still the GOP's election to win or lose. Just gotta pick Kasich, easy win. The thing about Kasich is his record alone is enough to beat Hillary without even a single attack dog ad needed. Lol but adding those in and it will be a landslide. Maybe this is the charm Trump has cast of the GOPers. He feeds their fury, they think they can beat Hillary by yelling at her. They blow air in vain. The attacks aren't enough, they can only go so far. This is why you need an experienced government official with a solid record of prosperity to be able to build a strong defense for themself and the GOP brand.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Hillary has a 65% untrustworthy or dishonest on all polls ...anyone can and will beat her. Even Trump
 
L

LanceA

Guest
I think I'm liking Rubio and Cruz more and more.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I see that Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist.
Is this telling on his discerment?
Don't they hold that in the End Times the SDA will be persecuted because of their Sabbath views?
 
Dec 18, 2013
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I see that Carson is a Seventh Day Adventist.
Is this telling on his discerment?
Don't they hold that in the End Times the SDA will be persecuted because of their Sabbath views?
SDA is a false religion started by a false prophet. Don't let the pseudo-Christian jargon they say and the soft spokenness fool you. Even snakes hiss softly.
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
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SDA is a false religion started by a false prophet. Don't let the pseudo-Christian jargon they say and the soft spokenness fool you. Even snakes hiss softly.
I think that's exactly what Crossnote is saying.

I happen to like Carson.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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So there's now questions over whether Carson is just completely fabricating his past.

Ben Carson responds to questions about violent past - CNNPolitics.com

To prove the media wrong and prove that he really is violent, he now says he hit his mom in the head with a hammer. For real, even Trump isn't this ridiculous.

Carson is a snake, he might hiss softly, but he still has a forked tongue. There's only one way to deal with snakes, and that is to stomp on their head. Do not trust non-Christians, do not trust the SDA cult.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
So there's now questions over whether Carson is just completely fabricating his past.

Ben Carson responds to questions about violent past - CNNPolitics.com

To prove the media wrong and prove that he really is violent, he now says he hit his mom in the head with a hammer. For real, even Trump isn't this ridiculous.

Carson is a snake, he might hiss softly, but he still has a forked tongue. There's only one way to deal with snakes, and that is to stomp on their head. Do not trust non-Christians, do not trust the SDA cult.
Just curious....but what do you think is behind Carson?..... I mean...calling him a snake. You do know that people make mistakes and grow from them....right? I think that you are being pretty harsh with Carson and maybe even projecting something onto him that you don't like about yourself.