GOP Presidential Nomination

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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#641
#641
Mitspa said:
That's just leftist propaganda ...and you know it. The American people want the law enforced and our borders secure. And that why you see Trump doing so well.... You know its funny in some states he is winning Hispanic vote in the polls... maybe they don't see illegal immigration as a good thing as you seem to do?
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no it isn't propaganda...it is just a fact...illegal immigrants can and do blend in with those who legally enter this country...there is only one way to find millions of people who blend in like that...and that is mass searches...and -you- know it...

and trump is doing well because he has a cult of personality...not because of his political positions that have changed from one year to the next... it is obvious from his numerous policy proposals and inexcusable blunders that would have ended any other political campaign overnight that his supporters have a completely irrational allegiance...

now where did i say that i think illegal immigration is a good thing? maybe i just don't see -lying- as a good thing as you seem to do...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#642
#642
Mitspa said:
Yes...that's what happens in the world ...stuff happens and the voters see things in a new light.... but trump was winning before this attack...what happened was folks just seen he has been right about this immigration issue.
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just before the attack trump was declining in the polls...and literally the day before he had a ninety minute howard dean moment that had even his supporters shaking their heads...this would have dominated the election news for days...

and then the paris attacks happened...i guess satan wanted to give his favorite republican a helping hand...
 
Sinnerman

Sinnerman

Banned
#643
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#643
RachelBibleStudent said:
i wasn't talking about constitutional rights for illegal immigrants...i was talking about the constitutional rights of american citizens...

you know the illegal immigrants aren't just going to sew yellow badges on their clothes so trump's 'deportation force' will know who they are...and that means the only way to find and identify them all...or even a majority of them for that matter...is by systematic warrantless search of an entire population...including american citizens within that population...in blatant violation of the fourth amendment rights of those american citizens...
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Are you certain you know the only way to find and identify illegal immigrants is by warrantless searches? Can you provide us with your resume of law enforcement experience?

There are many kinds of illegal immigrants. Some are violent criminals. Some are families who obey our laws and have jobs. If law enforcement is told to step up efforts to detain and deport illegal immigrants, they would prioritize that mission, and go after the high profile illegal immigrants involved in criminal activity first. Our justice department has made it difficult for local law enforcement to ask Hispanic drivers for proof of citizenship. They make it difficult to hold illegal immigrants after they have served their jail time for minor offences. Law enforcement has been handcuffed by the Obama justice department.

If you free up law enforcement, they would make lawful traffic stops that would lead to apprehension and deportation of illegal immigrants. If police were allowed to stop and check Hispanics congregating in front of Home Depot, seeking work as laborers, they would find most of these people are illegal immigrants. It's not like they are hiding in caves. The more arrests and deportations that happen, the more word spreads among illegals and the more they pack up and head back to their country of origin, hoping to avoid being jailed.

You seemed convinced we should not even try to enforce our laws and that enforcement would lead to violations of people's rights. Most Americans want to see law enforcement allowed to enforce immigration laws and want swift deportation of those violating immigration laws. Further, they want a secure southern border. If you have never been to the border, as I have, you might not know there are sections where the only thing that separates the U.S. from Mexico is a four strand barbed wire fence. Sometimes the strands have been cut and you can simply step over the lower wires and cross the border.

Donald Trump may not have all the answers. But because of him, we are having a discussion on a topic Americans care about.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#644
#644
RachelBibleStudent said:
just before the attack trump was declining in the polls...and literally the day before he had a ninety minute howard dean moment that had even his supporters shaking their heads...this would have dominated the election news for days...

and then the paris attacks happened...i guess satan wanted to give his favorite republican a helping hand...
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Wow your getting a little confused now I think? ...you sound like one of those conspiracy folks now.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#645
#645
RachelBibleStudent said:
no it isn't propaganda...it is just a fact...illegal immigrants can and do blend in with those who legally enter this country...there is only one way to find millions of people who blend in like that...and that is mass searches...and -you- know it...

and trump is doing well because he has a cult of personality...not because of his political positions that have changed from one year to the next... it is obvious from his numerous policy proposals and inexcusable blunders that would have ended any other political campaign overnight that his supporters have a completely irrational allegiance...

now where did i say that i think illegal immigration is a good thing? maybe i just don't see -lying- as a good thing as you seem to do...
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Look if I voted today it would be for ben carson or maybe Cruz...but the fact is that trump is making real points on his ideas
and especially his declaration he is going to enforce the immigration laws. The claim that he is going to somehow harm our nation by enforcing the rules that make us a nation....is just left-wing talking points.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#646
#646
So now Rachel is saying that satan orchestrated the Paris attacks to get Trump elected....is this the conspiracy section?....I'm confused? Lol.
 
Sinnerman

Sinnerman

Banned
#647
Oct 16, 2015
824
12
0
#647
RachelBibleStudent said:
no it isn't propaganda...it is just a fact...illegal immigrants can and do blend in with those who legally enter this country...there is only one way to find millions of people who blend in like that...and that is mass searches...and -you- know it...

and trump is doing well because he has a cult of personality...not because of his political positions that have changed from one year to the next... it is obvious from his numerous policy proposals and inexcusable blunders that would have ended any other political campaign overnight that his supporters have a completely irrational allegiance...

now where did i say that i think illegal immigration is a good thing? maybe i just don't see -lying- as a good thing as you seem to do...
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If by blend in you mean they often live in the same neighborhoods, sure, that's a reasonable claim. But then you claim that there is only one way to find millions of illegal immigrants...mass searches. That is where you are wrong.

What happens when an illegal immigrant walks into a DMV to get an ID or drivers license? What happens when an illegal immigrant enters an urgent care or hospital ER to receive treatment they will not pay for? What happens when an illegal immigrant gets stopped by police for a traffic infraction and the police ask them for ID? There are many opportunities for authorities to identify illegal immigrants that do not require mass searches.

You obviously have an agenda and you lack knowledge of the issue. Every day, illegal immigrants expose themselves as illegal immigrants simply by using common services or by crossing paths with police, sometimes even as victims, reporting crimes. That is what people refer to them as living in the shadows. The moment you publically announce that you are going to confront landscapers, day labor companies, all small businesses that commonly use illegal laborers, you send the message that you are seriously going to reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the U.S. They will get that message and many will pack up and return to their country of origin. We would instantly free up space in our state prisons that are filling up with violent illegal immigrants. The criminal justice system becomes less bogged down. Our public schools no longer have to waste valuable time teaching students who do not understand a word of English. Our hospitals would no longer have to increase costs to insured to cover the cost of treating illegal immigrants who do not pay for treatment.

I can't imagine you could deport illegal immigrants at the rate Donald Trump hopes to deport them, but once you get started, there will be an exodus of people self-deporting, who will get in the legal line, and do not want to risk getting caught and flagged so they cannot get into the legal line.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#648
#648
Of course when the illegal immigrants begin to see that we are actually going to enforce our laws...they will start looking for a way to obey those laws...if that requires them to go back to their own country, then that's what many of them will do. Especially if they know they have no other option and can at some point do things in a legal way. Now the real criminals who have no desire to obey our laws, will have to be purged by the established authorities we have and force should be used to get them out or in prison..which ever they want to do it...the easy way or the hard way?
 
G4JC

G4JC

Senior Member
#649
Feb 9, 2011
668
6
0
#649
Hard to follow this thread, but for anyone still supporting Trump while thinking he is a born again Christian - here's some things to ponder:

Donald Trump - What's the Deal? <-- Must watch documentary about the Trump empire.
Trump Hosts Televangelists Who Fleece Their Flocks
‘Prophetic Prayer’ Claims God Has Given Donald Trump ‘Anointing for Mantle of Government’

Trump: 'Why Do I Have to Repent or Ask for Forgiveness If I Am Not Making Mistakes?' (Video)
@DonaldTrump: "When we go in church and when I drink my little wine ... and have my little cracker, I guess that's a form of asking for forgiveness"

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. - Isaiah 64:6

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? - Matthew 7:16


Paul/Cruz '16. :cool:
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#650
#650
I never said that I thought trump was born again....nor do I think a person has to be to defend the principles of our republic.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#651
#651
As far as trumps status as a real born-again Christian? I don't think he makes that claim..but what he does say is that he will defend our rights and honor our rights as citizens to shape our society with the moral principals we hold. He at least has enough sense to know the bible is not a evil and its truth is the foundation of our nation...We also know that God has and can use leaders that respect our faith without actually being submitting themselves... If you look at all the other canidates..only Huck represents the traditional born-again people in a clear and evident way.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#652
#652
Sinnerman said:
Are you certain you know the only way to find and identify illegal immigrants is by warrantless searches? Can you provide us with your resume of law enforcement experience?

There are many kinds of illegal immigrants. Some are violent criminals. Some are families who obey our laws and have jobs. If law enforcement is told to step up efforts to detain and deport illegal immigrants, they would prioritize that mission, and go after the high profile illegal immigrants involved in criminal activity first. Our justice department has made it difficult for local law enforcement to ask Hispanic drivers for proof of citizenship. They make it difficult to hold illegal immigrants after they have served their jail time for minor offences. Law enforcement has been handcuffed by the Obama justice department.

If you free up law enforcement, they would make lawful traffic stops that would lead to apprehension and deportation of illegal immigrants. If police were allowed to stop and check Hispanics congregating in front of Home Depot, seeking work as laborers, they would find most of these people are illegal immigrants. It's not like they are hiding in caves. The more arrests and deportations that happen, the more word spreads among illegals and the more they pack up and head back to their country of origin, hoping to avoid being jailed.

You seemed convinced we should not even try to enforce our laws and that enforcement would lead to violations of people's rights. Most Americans want to see law enforcement allowed to enforce immigration laws and want swift deportation of those violating immigration laws. Further, they want a secure southern border. If you have never been to the border, as I have, you might not know there are sections where the only thing that separates the U.S. from Mexico is a four strand barbed wire fence. Sometimes the strands have been cut and you can simply step over the lower wires and cross the border.

Donald Trump may not have all the answers. But because of him, we are having a discussion on a topic Americans care about.
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i don't need law enforcement experience to apply basic logic to a problem... when you have a group of -anything- in which some percentage of the whole has a certain characteristic that is not immediately apparent to non intrusive observation...the only way to determine which ones have that characteristic is to check them all...

if you don't believe me...listen to what trump himself says about the 'america' he envisions...

"We're going to have to do things that we never did before. And some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling that security is going to rule. And certain things will be done that we never thought would happen in this country in terms of information and learning about the enemy. And so we're going to have to do certain things that were frankly unthinkable a year ago."

these are not the words of someone talking about merely freeing law enforcement to make lawful traffic stops and to pick up people hanging around in front of home depot...or even just building a wall for that matter...these are the words of someone who thinks the only solution to today's problems is a police state...

nowhere at all have i said that we should not attempt to enforce laws or that proper enforcement would violate anyone's rights...i think we can enforce our laws without the quasi national socialist measures trump and his supporters want so dearly...

donald trump doesn't have any of the answers...and because of him the immigration topic has become just another vehicle for increasing the size and reach of government...with so called 'conservatives' leading the charge...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#653
#653
Mitspa said:
The claim that he is going to somehow harm our nation by enforcing the rules that make us a nation....is just left-wing talking points.
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that isn't what i am saying...

trump would harm our nation by -ignoring- the rules that make us a nation!
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#654
#654
Sirk said:
So now Rachel is saying that satan orchestrated the Paris attacks to get Trump elected....is this the conspiracy section?....I'm confused? Lol.
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it is not a conspiracy to suggest that the enemy is at work in evil acts such as the paris attacks...or to suggest that those who directly benefit from such evils are also his workers...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#655
#655
Sinnerman said:
I can't imagine you could deport illegal immigrants at the rate Donald Trump hopes to deport them,
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i am just going to quote this since it is the bottom line of the issue and affirms the point i am making...you cannot deport illegal immigrants at the rate trump promises...not without draconian measures that threaten the rights of every american...

for example given the probably too conservative estimate of 11 million illegal immigrants in this country today...you would have to catch over 7,500 illegal immigrants -every single day- in order to find and deport all 11 million during one presidential term...that is not going to happen as a result of ID checks at routine traffic stops...

this is not propaganda...this is just math...

now there are only a few ways to appraise trump given the facts...

either he doesn't know all this...which makes him delusional...
or he knows this and doesn't actually intend to take any draconian measures...which makes him a liar...
or he knows this and does intend to take the draconian measures he has both explicitly and implicitly proposed...which puts him in direct opposition to the united states constitution...

none of those exactly scream 'fit for the office of president of the united states'
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#656
#656
Sirk said:
I never said that I thought trump was born again....nor do I think a person has to be to defend the principles of our republic.
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the problem is that neither are the case for trump...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#657
#657
Mitspa said:
As far as trumps status as a real born-again Christian? I don't think he makes that claim..but what he does say is that he will defend our rights and honor our rights as citizens to shape our society with the moral principals we hold. He at least has enough sense to know the bible is not a evil and its truth is the foundation of our nation...We also know that God has and can use leaders that respect our faith without actually being submitting themselves... If you look at all the other canidates..only Huck represents the traditional born-again people in a clear and evident way.
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actually trump has repeatedly claimed to be a mainstream evangelical christian...he has even taken it upon himself to make disparaging remarks arguing that other candidates are not as 'christian' as him...

this is in spite of the fact that trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness...quotes bible verses that don't exist...denies that instant conversion happens...and the presbyterian church he claimed regular attendance at says he is not an active member...

trump cannot be a leader who respects our faith if he cannot even be honest about his relation to it...the church needs to know that trump is nothing less than a deceiver...
 
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Sirk

Guest
#659
#659
RachelBibleStudent said:
actually trump has repeatedly claimed to be a mainstream evangelical christian...he has even taken it upon himself to make disparaging remarks arguing that other candidates are not as 'christian' as him...

this is in spite of the fact that trump says he has never asked God for forgiveness...quotes bible verses that don't exist...denies that instant conversion happens...and the presbyterian church he claimed regular attendance at says he is not an active member...

trump cannot be a leader who respects our faith if he cannot even be honest about his relation to it...the church needs to know that trump is nothing less than a deceiver...
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along with 80% of Americans.
 
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