Hyper grace

[ladylynn]

The new age movement also talk about meditation so do we throw out meditation now because of that? Of course not..

Being Christ conscious simply means to view everything through Him and His finished work on our behalf.

Performance-based Christianity says.." you do, do, do " ..it can be about THEM in the doing..

Christ-centered Christianity says.. " it's done, done, done..He did it all"..it's all about Him..

Christ's life expressing through us produces the "fruit" of doing good things. Everything originate with the Lord Jesus.

The Bible says to set your minds on things above and not on things below. Meditation was something all kinds of doopy loopy religions did back in history but that does not take away the truth of what the Bible tells us to do when we are instructed to meditate on the things of God., His goodness His holiness.

And DO remember that our enemy is the great counterfeiter who takes the things of God and even can use an angel of light to spread lies to those who don't know the truth. Being 'Christ' conscience and not 'self' conscience is an excellent word picture.

The devil will counterfeit Jesus when the anti christ is come into the world. Why are you so shocked that our enemy would also steal truths from the Bible on how to worship?? When I was in the Bible Baptist church back in the 80s and 90s we NEVER meditated. That was strictly for the new agers.

 

[Grace777x70]

Those scriptures have absolutely nothing to do with who we are in Christ. Paul is talking about all the stuff he went through working by the grace of God delivering the gospel to the nations. He was talking about all the obstacles that came against him.

Paul said that in all these things we overwhelmingly triumph in Christ.

Jesus never said we would float through life on a flowery bed of ease..lol..Jesus Himself said ..In this world you will have tribulation but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.

Paul didn't say..because I am a servant of Christ..God makes me sick to teach me things....and God makes me poor to keep me humble....and I'm not righteous and holy in Christ...sin always has dominion over me..I never triump in Christ..I am a lowly worm..

Poor Paul...

2Co 11:23-28 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. (24) Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. (25) Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; (26) on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; (27) in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. (28) And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches.

 

[james57]

Hmmm, one of those 3 easy steps to victory type books...$$$$$

Just following biblical truth as to the route sin shall not be your master
However it is not understood through theological reasoning, but spiritual understanding by the holy spirit
There is great power in the cross of christ, if the truth of the message is understood

 

[PeterJens]

If we don't walk that truth out each day but decide to walk around like we have not been cleansed from our sin., we will fail.

This makes no sense. It is like saying if I believe I can ride a bicycle then I can ride a bicycle when all I know is failure, I will be able to ride the bicycle.

My experience of people, is they can praise the Lord, talk spiritual aspirations, but in the ordinary aspects of life nothing has changed. If Jesus has moved their hearts, healed their hurts, changed their focus on how they see themselves and others, then things will be different. Jesus did this to me over time, broke down my approaches and emotions and built me in a different way. That empowers me to ride the bicycle because I am different, I have learnt the skills of balancing and have confidence I can stay upright.

Unless one is broken, walks away from their life to follow Jesus, nothing seems to shift. A criminal who is caught cries not because he wants to change but because he was caught.

I know many people who when you talk to them you meet layer 1 or 2 of their lives, but not how they really feel and no way anything that makes them vulnerable. There battlements are operating to defend themselves, the Lord is not at home here.

If you want a clue how hard this is, Peter after walking with Jesus, seeing the transfiguration still suggested the cross was not a good idea, and denied Jesus 3 times. This walk is the most difficult walk any human needs to walk.

But listen to the lists. Just kick back and relax, the Lord does all the work, you just get wealth, health and an easy ride. In fact if it is not easy you are not blessed and walking right. Is this the message of anything you read is scripture or even from church history?

 

[Grace777x70]

" Just kick back and relax, the Lord does all the work, you just get wealth, health and an easy ride. In fact if it is not easy you are not blessed and walking right. Is this the message of anything you read is scripture or even from church history? "

I don't have a clue where you got this idea from. This "reasoning" is in line with the hyper-grace antagonists which say .."See..they are saying you can just go out and sin all you. They give you a licence to sin!" ( This is pure baloney of course )

The truth is:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Hebrews 6:12 (KJV)

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[james57]

" Just kick back and relax, the Lord does all the work, you just get wealth, health and an easy ride. In fact if it is not easy you are not blessed and walking right. Is this the message of anything you read is scripture or even from church history? "

I don't have a clue where you got this idea from. This "reasoning" is in line with the hyper-grace antagonists which say .."See..they are saying you can just go out and sin all you. They give you a licence to sin!" ( This is pure baloney of course )

The truth is:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP] [/SUP] So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Hebrews 6:12 (KJV)

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Well every time you get told you believe in/ preach a licence to sin why not put Dr martin Lloyd jones comment back up lol

 

[PeterJens]

Meditation

Thinking on things is a good practice. Spending time in prayer, working through people and their relationships brings blessing.

But envisioning worldly dreams, emptying yourself using repeated words is not. Buddism has the idea that you have to empty yourself to become one with the universe. It is a denial of the value of the life within, concerns, conscience, care, love, interaction. It believes a rock understands the universe better than a follower of Jesus.

So all the attachments used with the word meditation are linked to strategies of perception not part of following God.
Now singing praise to the Lord, getting lost in singing in tongues, lifting your heart before the King of Kings now that is of the Holy Spirit.

The word we are hearing is the supernatural, angels. The focus is we have missed on empowerment which is why the world is walking away from Jesus. The concept it is wealth, conquering lifes impossible issues, has taken away the lottery bet of going to church, so why bother with church when there is so little to worry about.

The truths of the heart, being a people of love still is out there, often unanswered. And these great spiritual giants are not saying love has transformed us, it is this supernatural gifting, that prophet, this miracle, anything but real ordinary life and simple realities breaking through. Ofcourse they rarely happen because everyone can get a new job, buy a new house, join a new church and run away. Our local "spiritual" couple have been in a new church every 3 months or so. It has not struck them they are the problem, and not the people around them.

 

[Grace777x70]

Lol...I know..it's a good one isn't it?

Hey! I found a new one from Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones..

Holiness is not something we are called upon to do in order that we may become something; it is something we are to do because of what we already are.

Spiritual Depression – Its Causes and its Cures, Eerdmans 1965, p. 143

It looks like it all about Jesus again and what He has already done for us! Isn't our Lord awesome???

We have a great salvation in Him!

Well every time you get told you believe in/ preach a licence to sin why not put Dr martin Lloyd jones comment back up lol

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree!

People are running around spending their focus on blood moons, angels, looking for more comforts in life..etc... instead of focusing on Jesus. Ok..maybe blood moons mean something eventually..and yes..there are angels..billions of them and they hearken to the voice of the Lord and they are very powerful and we all have them with us, and yes it is nice to have good things given to us from our Father - but not of these come close to Jesus!

If all we think about concerning heaven which is our home..are the streets of gold..the beautiful mansions...the wonderful fellowship with our family and friends....as wonderful and legitimate these all are - we are missing it.

Jesus is what will make heaven for us! All of heaven revolves around our Lord and our Father!

There is no greater revelation then Jesus!

There is no greater revelation then to know the love of our good, good Father being expressed to us through our Lord!

Thinking on things is a good practice. Spending time in prayer, working through people and their relationships brings blessing.

But envisioning worldly dreams, emptying yourself using repeated words is not. Buddism has the idea that you have to empty yourself to become one with the universe. It is a denial of the value of the life within, concerns, conscience, care, love, interaction. It believes a rock understands the universe better than a follower of Jesus.

So all the attachments used with the word meditation are linked to strategies of perception not part of following God.
Now singing praise to the Lord, getting lost in singing in tongues, lifting your heart before the King of Kings now that is of the Holy Spirit.

The word we are hearing is the supernatural, angels. The focus is we have missed on empowerment which is why the world is walking away from Jesus. The concept it is wealth, conquering lifes impossible issues, has taken away the lottery bet of going to church, so why bother with church when there is so little to worry about.

The truths of the heart, being a people of love still is out there, often unanswered. And these great spiritual giants are not saying love has transformed us, it is this supernatural gifting, that prophet, this miracle, anything but real ordinary life and simple realities breaking through. Ofcourse they rarely happen because everyone can get a new job, buy a new house, join a new church and run away. Our local "spiritual" couple have been in a new church every 3 months or so. It has not struck them they are the problem, and not the people around them.

 

[crossnote]

Those scriptures have absolutely nothing to do with who we are in Christ. Paul is talking about all the stuff he went through working by the grace of God delivering the gospel to the nations. He was talking about all the obstacles that came against him.

Paul said that in all these things we overwhelmingly triumph in Christ.

Jesus never said we would float through life on a flowery bed of ease..lol..Jesus Himself said ..In this world you will have tribulation but be of good cheer. I have overcome the world.

Paul didn't say..because I am a servant of Christ..God makes me sick to teach me things....and God makes me poor to keep me humble....and I'm not righteous and holy in Christ...sin always has dominion over me..I never triump in Christ..I am a lowly worm..

It was in response to the prosperity posts...never intended it to refer to 'who we are in Christ'.

 

[crossnote]

Just following biblical truth as to the route sin shall not be your master
However it is not understood through theological reasoning, but spiritual understanding by the holy spirit
There is great power in the cross of christ, if the truth of the message is understood

Neither is it understood through the Scriptures.

 

[crossnote]

" Just kick back and relax, the Lord does all the work, you just get wealth, health and an easy ride. In fact if it is not easy you are not blessed and walking right. Is this the message of anything you read is scripture or even from church history? "

I don't have a clue where you got this idea from. This "reasoning" is in line with the hyper-grace antagonists which say .."See..they are saying you can just go out and sin all you. They give you a licence to sin!" ( This is pure baloney of course )

The truth is:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 (KJV)
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4 (KJV)
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

Hebrews 6:12 (KJV)

That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Revelation 14:12 (KJV)

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Let go and let God? Keswick?

 

[PeterJens]

I don't have a clue where you got this idea from.

I was commenting on a statement from ladylyne.

I pick up on comments like this because without a real definition of transformation you just have aspiration.
The problem with pure "spiritual" ministries is anointings become the theory or 3rd heaven experiences. The idea is life gets another dimension because God does not want you to be just people obeying Jesus and doing good works, you need this power. But this is just insanity. So this small chink actually becomes everything.

As much as Grace777x70 wants to deny what the church is preaching and living.

I am not an angel of light, speaking something wrong, taking Gods truths to deceive.

But the core issue in these situations in simplifying everything. Jesus cares about our behaviour, seeing needs and meeting them. The further people get from this and the more into the world and a lack of reality the more lost they really are.

So much of what is written is written by christians in churches of many years but is a denial of their whole experience and full of condemnation of those they knew in the past. This speaks to me of strong emotional feelings that have not been resolved over many years, so change the faith, condemn all those they knew, and embrace the new ideas like heaven.

The fruit of this rebellion is not admitted to, only the hypocracy of the people involved from their past but without evidence.
So the enemy are now the enemy of God.

I know we can never really agree, because the reason why you are taking this road is failure of your past spiritual experiences.

 

[Magenta]

Let go and let God? Keswick?

​

 

[Grace777x70]

Of course Jesus cares about our behavior, seeing needs and meeting them. He loves us dearly!

I think we all agree what the "fruit" looks like for the believer in Christ. I think were we differ is in HOW that is manifested in our lives.

performance-based Christianity = you do, do, do..it's all about them doing!

grace-based Christianity = It's done, done, done in Christ! He did it all. ( again..this is not saying what He has done for us does not manifest outwardly )


Grace-based believing as the so called hyper-grace advocates is that Christ did it all for us. This does not mean that grace people do nothing..it means the "fruit" of who we are in Christ manifests itself in our outward life. It's His life coming from us.

having righteous behavior does not make a person righteous Christ makes us righteous by believing in what he has already accomplished for us in His finished work. We are new creations in Him!

Here's the formula if you will...

Right believing = right "seeing" of who we are in Christ = right living of His life in us being manifested in our lives

If believing that Christ has made me righteous and holy is rebellion....then I love my rebellion!

Believe me I have tried in my past many times with a sincere heart filled with tears to live the performance-based Christianity and it does not even remotely come close to knowing Jesus and His grace in my life! I have lived a much more fruitful life outwardly with peace, joy and a growing and deepening love for my Jesus since I received the revelation of the finished work of Christ for me!

I for one will always choose to believe and walk in knowledge of the love of my Father for me expressed through my Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
[SUP] [/SUP] But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

I was commenting on a statement from ladylyne.

I pick up on comments like this because without a real definition of transformation you just have aspiration.
The problem with pure "spiritual" ministries is anointings become the theory or 3rd heaven experiences. The idea is life gets another dimension because God does not want you to be just people obeying Jesus and doing good works, you need this power. But this is just insanity. So this small chink actually becomes everything.

As much as Grace777x70 wants to deny what the church is preaching and living.

I am not an angel of light, speaking something wrong, taking Gods truths to deceive.

But the core issue in these situations in simplifying everything. Jesus cares about our behaviour, seeing needs and meeting them. The further people get from this and the more into the world and a lack of reality the more lost they really are.

So much of what is written is written by christians in churches of many years but is a denial of their whole experience and full of condemnation of those they knew in the past. This speaks to me of strong emotional feelings that have not been resolved over many years, so change the faith, condemn all those they knew, and embrace the new ideas like heaven.

The fruit of this rebellion is not admitted to, only the hypocracy of the people involved from their past but without evidence.
So the enemy are now the enemy of God.

I know we can never really agree, because the reason why you are taking this road is failure of your past spiritual experiences.

 

[Grace777x70]

2 Corinthians 4:16-18 (NASB)

[SUP] [/SUP] Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.
For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,
[SUP] [/SUP] while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

We look to Christ and His finished work on our behalf! The love of God in us compels us to go out tell those that are hurting to come to Jesus. He loves you! He has forgiven you! He wants you to know His Father who sent Him to you. He wants to heal you and take care of you as a loving, good Father!

 

[ladylynn]

Of course Jesus cares about our behavior, seeing needs and meeting them. He loves us dearly!

I think we all agree what the "fruit" looks like for the believer in Christ. I think were we differ is in HOW that is manifested in our lives.

performance-based Christianity = you do, do, do..it's all about them doing!

grace-based Christianity = It's done, done, done in Christ! He did it all. ( again..this is not saying what He has done for us does not manifest outwardly )


Grace-based believing as the so called hyper-grace advocates is that Christ did it all for us. This does not mean that grace people do nothing..it means the "fruit" of who we are in Christ manifests itself in our outward life. It's His life coming from us.

having righteous behavior does not make a person righteous Christ makes us righteous by believing in what he has already accomplished for us in His finished work. We are new creations in Him!

Here's the formula if you will...

Right believing = right "seeing" of who we are in Christ = right living of His life in us being manifested in our lives

If believing that Christ has made me righteous and holy is rebellion....then I love my rebellion!

Believe me I have tried in my past many times with a sincere heart filled with tears to live the performance-based Christianity and it does not even remotely come close to knowing Jesus and His grace in my life! I have lived a much more fruitful life outwardly with peace, joy and a growing and deepening love for my Jesus since I received the revelation of the finished work of Christ for me!

I for one will always choose to believe and walk in knowledge of the love of my Father for me expressed through my Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

Amen, am in agreement with you and share your joy!!

 

[james57]

Neither is it understood through the Scriptures.

What isn't understood through the scriptures by the holy spirits enlightenment?

That sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace?

Do you deny there is great power in the cross of Christ to change people?

Is it so hard to believe people can be set free from porn addiction, smoking etc if they follow the truth of the message of the person who wrote half the books of the NT?

 

[james57]

Neither is it understood through the Scriptures.

Rom5:20, rom7:5, rom7:7-11, rom6:14

 

[crossnote]

Just following biblical truth as to the route sin shall not be your master
However it is not understood through theological reasoning, but spiritual understanding by the holy spirit
There is great power in the cross of christ, if the truth of the message is understood

Neither is it understood through the Scriptures.

What isn't understood through the scriptures by the holy spirits enlightenment?

That sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace?

Do you deny there is great power in the cross of Christ to change people?

Is it so hard to believe people can be set free from porn addiction, smoking etc if they follow the truth of the message of the person who wrote half the books of the NT?

Quick magic fixes generally don't happen. A person might be suddenly set free from a vice when they come to faith in Jesus but usually it comes through growth in the Lord which means being tested in the ovens of trials and afflictions.
Our culture is a sucker for an easy fix, and ones like Prince offers that easy fix.