Thoughts from a potential heretic....

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#1
I was pondering on where the term heretic originates from.
In viewing scripture on this subject helped to clear things up for me.
1) heresies are a "work" of the flesh Gal 5:20
2) Paul was called a heretic in Acts 24;14 by the jews of his day. The religious views of his day rose up against Paul because he was preaching Jesus. The current view of the jews were in their minds based on the Old Testament - their view of the word of God.
3) Peter say in 2Peter 2:1..that there were people bringing in damnable heresies which was denying the Lord who bought them. ( in other words they were denying the finished work of Jesus on their behalf and their complete dependence on what He has done)
When Martin Luther told his day that " We are saved by grace through faith and not through works "...the modern ( Christian ) religious world had told everyone for 100's of years that they had to do this..do that.....always do what the pope and priest told you to do.... .in order to be saved.
The current religious thinking of Luther's time would say to him - this is heresy! You are a heretic! We have been doing what God has said for 100's of years. They were against the heretic Luther because of their view of the word of God. It was their traditions that blocked their ability to see Jesus.
Thank God that Luther did not listen to the current view of the Christian world and followed the Holy Spirit revealing the truth of salvation by grace alone!
So the modern view of Christianity does not necessarily mean that it is truth. Just because we have believed in something for 100-200 years..does this mean it is necessarily truth?
What is the answer then? Always base all things on the scriptures. Not necessarily what we were taught in church or what we believe that scripture says.
Base interpretations of scripture through the "lens" of the New Covenant and what Jesus did for us in His finished work on the cross and resurrection on our behalf.
Remember, it's actually very easy to identify the difference between old and new covenant teachings. Just ask yourself if the teaching is putting the emphasis on what you have to do or what Jesus has done already? Does it make you introspective, always looking to yourself and how you fared or failed - or does it make you turn your eyes away from yourself to look upon Jesus?

The heretic is one that is saying things that are against what the current religious thought says is the interpretation of the word of God and that violates what they were taught.
Peter says the true heretic is the one who denies the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ and does not depend on what He has already done for us! 2 Peter 2:1

Let's search the scriptures and rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of Jesus to us and walk in the knowledge of Him no matter what the cost.

 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#2
Well, let's face it..... isn't that actually what they were accusing Jesus of being?
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#3
Great point Willie!

The religious people of Jesus day did accuse Him of being a heretic...based on their modern views of scripture.

So, being called a heretic has the potential to tell you that you are on the right track!....how ironic!.....lol

Well, let's face it..... isn't that actually what they were accusing Jesus of being?
 
Nov 9, 2015
210
1
0
#4
People throw the term around too loosely. Another is "pagan", and it's odd when people call themselves "pagan", because it's followers of deities other than one's own.

I think people like to sound righteous. I think people don't really grab, often, the gravity of words, and they don't realize a great problem they're actually creating, which is "threat fatigue".

Let them talk, let them work themselves into fervor. God will sort it out.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#5
Great point Willie!

The religious people of Jesus day did accuse Him of being a heretic...based on their modern views of scripture.

So, being called a heretic has the potential to tell you that you are on the right track!....how ironic!.....lol
Our preacher has a habit of stating Jesus was "subversive." It sounds bad...... till you go to the dictionary, and look up the real meaning.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#6
I can see that you have the potential to be a heretic when I read your tag.....

I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

Did you ever get into trouble saying that?...how can you say that when all you are is a dirty rotten sinner with an evil nature!..( just teasin' ya here and playin' the devil's advocate )..lol

I'm right there with you buddy..I am the righteousness of God in Christ too!

Our preacher has a habit of stating Jesus was "subversive." It sounds bad...... till you go to the dictionary, and look up the real meaning.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#7
I can see that you have the potential to be a heretic when I read your tag.....

I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

Did you ever get into trouble saying that?...how can you say that when all you are is a dirty rotten sinner with an evil nature!..( just teasin' ya here and playin' the devil's advocate )..lol

I'm right there with you buddy..I am the righteousness of God in Christ too!
Not just me. Our city has a monthly breakfast which many different types of "Christians", and even some Jews, attend. My preacher incurred the ire, if not almost the :wrath:, of many attendees about three years ago when he also made that same statement. But I do get myself in plenty of trouble with several other views I hold.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#8
So, it turns out you are a heretic then...lol

I can tell by your posts that you are not a true heretic as Peter describes.... I'll stand with you brother!


Not just me. Our city has a monthly breakfast which many different types of "Christians", and even some Jews, attend. My preacher incurred the ire, if not almost the :wrath:, of many attendees about three years ago when he also made that same statement. But I do get myself in plenty of trouble with several other views I hold.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
766
113
39
Australia
#9
People throw the term around too loosely. Another is "pagan", and it's odd when people call themselves "pagan", because it's followers of deities other than one's own.

I think people like to sound righteous. I think people don't really grab, often, the gravity of words, and they don't realize a great problem they're actually creating, which is "threat fatigue".

Let them talk, let them work themselves into fervor. God will sort it out.
Lol its called christianese
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#10
Called a heretic? I wouldn't know anything about that. Smile.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#11
I can see that you have the potential to be a heretic when I read your tag.....

I am the righteousness of God, in Christ Jesus.

Did you ever get into trouble saying that?...how can you say that when all you are is a dirty rotten sinner with an evil nature!..( just teasin' ya here and playin' the devil's advocate )..lol

I'm right there with you buddy..I am the righteousness of God in Christ too!
I don't believe it says anywhere in scripture that you are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. It says we are becoming so. Big difference.


He made the one who did not know sin [to be] sin on our behalf, in order that we could become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#12
I don't believe it says anywhere in scripture that you are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. It says we are becoming so. Big difference.


He made the one who did not know sin [to be] sin on our behalf, in order that we could become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
So, by your thinking, if Jesus died so that we could be saved....... Then none of us are saved?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#13
So, by your thinking, if Jesus died so that we could be saved....... Then none of us are saved?
As I read it none of us are the righteous of GOD in Christ, yet we are becoming so through faith. Righteousness is imputed to our account, something that we trust to inherit fully one day, but we ourselves are not righteous.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#14
[FONT="Galatia Sil" !important][SIZE=5]γίνομαι[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT="Gentium" !important][I]ginomai[/I][/FONT] verb [B]To be, to come into being, to be made, be done, become, to be celebrated.[/B]
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary,

The verb used in 2 Cor 5:21 is the present tense in some manuscriots and in others the verb here is aortist which is past past for the most part

[B]1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[/B][SUP][SIZE=4][COLOR=#000000]30 [/COLOR][/SIZE][/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, [B]who became [/B]to us wisdom from God, and[B] righteousness[/B] and sanctification, and redemption,


[B]who became [/B]- same greek word as become above only this time it is used in the aorist ( past tense ) passive voice = which means something is done to you..you don't do it.

The scripture is clear here I would say...

[QUOTE="HeRoseFromTheDead, post: 2391065"]I don't believe it says anywhere in scripture that you are the righteousness of GOD in Christ. It says we are becoming so. Big difference.

He made the one who did not know sin [to be] sin on our behalf, in order that we could become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
[/QUOTE]
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#15
Romans 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall

It looks like we cannot live by faith if we are not righteous now...

Romans 1:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."




As I read it none of us are the righteous of GOD in Christ, yet we are becoming so through faith. Righteousness is imputed to our account, something that we trust to inherit fully one day, but we ourselves are not righteous.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#16
[FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]γίνομαι[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]ginomai[/FONT] verb To be, to come into being, to be made, be done, become, to be celebrated.
Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary,

The verb used in 2 Cor 5:21 is the present tense in some manuscriots and in others the verb here is aortist which is past past for the most part

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,


who became - same greek word as become above only this time it is used in the aorist ( past tense ) passive voice = which means something is done to you..you don't do it.

The scripture is clear here I would say...
That verse says Christ is righteous, not us.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#17
Romans 5:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall

It looks like we cannot live by faith if we are not righteous now...

Romans 1:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
We are declared righteous, but we are not righteousness. Only Christ is the righteousness of GOD.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,430
0
#18
And we are in Christ1...we have His righteousness and so we are called righteous now..if we are not righteous now ( it's His righteousness that He gives to us as a gift.)
...then all the scriptures that talk about the righteous man will live by faith is useless because their are no righteous men..there are tons of scripture that describes what the "righteous man " gets or has. It's not our own righteousness apart from Christ..it is His but He gives it to us...

If we are not righteous...we are in deep trouble.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,






We are declared righteous, but we are not righteousness. Only Christ is the righteousness of GOD.
 

eternallife7

Senior Member
May 19, 2015
659
6
0
#19
We are declared righteous, but we are not righteousness. Only Christ is the righteousness of GOD.
I'm not trying to argue or anything. However, I must add that when Hebrews asks us how much more does the blood of Christ cause us to cease from dead works? I think that we might not even be able to grasp about how much His blood cleansed those who believe and rely soley on the finished work of the cross. This isn't about the comment about being the righteousness of God in Christ. I will have to study more on that subject tonight.
 
A

AboundingGrace

Guest
#20
Being righteous is like being human. A Christian is born that way. But, born a babe that has to grow into the righteousness. But if asked we say that we are the righteousness of God in Christ, because we are in him and he in us. So that as he is, so are we in this world.