Hyper grace

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JFSurvivor

Senior Member
Jan 20, 2015
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GOD's grace: passing over the condemnation rightly due us and dwelling with us in mercy that we may become like him.
So then how do we become like him if we don't actively try to be better? You make God sound like an enabler. Sin is addictive and if we are passive about breaking the cycle then we are telling satan that he has won. But if we take a hold of the spirit and use that as a leg up in beating sin (as opposed to expecting the spirit to do all the work) we can beat it, not in its entirety but our hearts will change and we will start to be digusted with our old ways and want to avoid them like the plague. I have seen this change in myself. I have seen myself start to hate my sin and not be so complacent. We can't expect God to do all the work for us. We have to resist temptation with everything we've got. Ya win some and ya lose some but you don't stop fighting, ever. Because once you say, "oh i'm covered by grace" you have given yourself permission to sin" and God has never given us permission to sin, not even under grace.
 

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
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Also if sins power is broken then why is it still so addicting for so many believers? Why do some pastors get caught in adultery? Why are there some christian men out there who still look at porn? Why do Christians still lie, cheat and steal? If sins power were broken we would go back to the time of Eden.

Why are there so many non Christians still under the yoke of sin if the cross broke it. Sin is still alive and active today and we must fight it. The cross has given us the power and freedom to fight it. Before we were powerless.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. Rom 6:14

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh (ourselves) Phil3:3

Apart from me you can do nothing John 15:5

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles [SUP]16[/SUP]know that a person is not justified by the works of the law/striving to obey the law/striving not to sin/defeat sin, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[SUP][d][/SUP] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.[SUP]17 [/SUP]‘But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! [SUP]18 [/SUP]If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a law-breaker Gal2:15-18

The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Also if sins power is broken then why is it still so addicting for so many believers? Why do some pastors get caught in adultery? Why are there some christian men out there who still look at porn? Why do Christians still lie, cheat and steal? If sins power were broken we would go back to the time of Eden.

Why are there so many non Christians still under the yoke of sin if the cross broke it. Sin is still alive and active today and we must fight it. The cross has given us the power and freedom to fight it. Before we were powerless.
If I told you the church I saw the most flagrant sin in, you wouldn't believe me
 
Sep 4, 2012
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691
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So then how do we become like him if we don't actively try to be better? You make God sound like an enabler. Sin is addictive and if we are passive about breaking the cycle then we are telling satan that he has won. But if we take a hold of the spirit and use that as a leg up in beating sin (as opposed to expecting the spirit to do all the work) we can beat it, not in its entirety but our hearts will change and we will start to be digusted with our old ways and want to avoid them like the plague. I have seen this change in myself. I have seen myself start to hate my sin and not be so complacent. We can't expect God to do all the work for us. We have to resist temptation with everything we've got. Ya win some and ya lose some but you don't stop fighting, ever. Because once you say, "oh i'm covered by grace" you have given yourself permission to sin" and God has never given us permission to sin, not even under grace.
We become like GOD by loving others as ourselves.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
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Also if sins power is broken then why is it still so addicting for so many believers? Why do some pastors get caught in adultery? Why are there some christian men out there who still look at porn? Why do Christians still lie, cheat and steal? If sins power were broken we would go back to the time of Eden.

Why are there so many non Christians still under the yoke of sin if the cross broke it. Sin is still alive and active today and we must fight it. The cross has given us the power and freedom to fight it. Before we were powerless.
Many Christians are as you describe because they are not following Christ, but doctrines of men.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
OK so in the video the guy says that grace is "exaggerated". Do you think it is possible to exaggerate God's grace? Why or why not?
Exaggerated.... NO

Misused and abused..... YES

I have seen to many GRACE teachings in the past years, especially in the 80's, where it was preached to allow sinful behavior to continue in people's lives.

They have misused passages such as ROMANS 7 to try and make it speak as if Paul was saying he continued always that way.

Problem is there is a clear contrast of teaching from Paul between chapters 7 and 8.

The other one they misuse is 1Timothy 1:15 where Paul calls himself chief sinner.

The problem with that is they ignore verse 13 where Paul clearly is saying how he formerly acted, not how he acts now.

God's grace does not allow or excuse sinful behavior. It teaches and corrects us to keep from continuing down the old sinful path.

Jude 1:4 gives a clear warning to those who teach God's grace allowing lewdness to continue.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Grace that sanctions sin isn't grace; it's licentiousness and lawlessness.

I don't think he is saying God gives out too much grace, I think he is saying we as humans exaggerate it. From what I understood he was saying that we have taken grace as a liscence to sin. That as long as we are "covered by grace" we are "free to sin" as opposed to "free from sin". Free from sin means we have to do our best to actively not sin. Free to sin means we accept that we are human and we sin and we make no concious effort not to sin.

He quoted from many hyper-grace teachers and I was shocked and horrified at what they were saying because I had heard some of those same things at some of the churches that were operating near where I live. It is horrible. I never understood it was so bad until I saw the video.

And I do believe we can have too much grace. Think of it like this. Lets say I murder someone but I'm covered by grace so it's ok. What about the family of the murder victim? Murder is an extreme example so lets go with social exsclusion. Let's say I am at a church and there is an autistic girl who is hard to handle. I decide I would rather not deal with her because I am only human and can only take so much. Besides I am saved by grace so God will forgive me for not loving up on one person.

Wheather we like it or not, all of our actions have eathly consequences and not all of those consequences directly affect us. Some of those consequences affect other people. Sometimes we hurt other people but "its ok because we're only human and we are saved by grace". Is that really how God opperates?

I have posted scripture after scripture and I can say that no one has posted back why those verses I posted are invalid. They just post verses of their own expecting their verses to be more valid than mine. So I'm leaing scripture out of this because of that. But I will say this, grace is good and it is a huge part of the Bible and Christianity but that is not all there is and we can't throw out other parts of the Bible because we want to focus on grace and grace alone.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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1 John 4:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

John 15:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

It's all Jesus living though and in us and then out to others. It's all about growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ. When we find out who we are in Christ..we are transformed to be who we really are in Him
2 Corinthians 3:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

being transformed = present passive/middle

present means it is a continuous action happening as we behold Christ

passive/middle = means the action is being done "to "you as you behold Christ....the middle aspect is when you participate actively in the life of Christ that had transformed you.

I hope that helps...lol
 
Oct 21, 2015
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If all we have is grace what keeps us accountable?
The new covenant:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.’[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’
 
K

KennethC

Guest
Also if sins power is broken then why is it still so addicting for so many believers? Why do some pastors get caught in adultery? Why are there some christian men out there who still look at porn? Why do Christians still lie, cheat and steal? If sins power were broken we would go back to the time of Eden.

Why are there so many non Christians still under the yoke of sin if the cross broke it. Sin is still alive and active today and we must fight it. The cross has given us the power and freedom to fight it. Before we were powerless.
Because of itching ears doctrines of men that take away the accountability factor.

As other passages that are ignored is ROMANS 14:10-12 and 2 CORINTHIANS 5:10.

Both of those show we will have to give account of our lives at judgment.

People want to say nowadays that believers are not judged. That is not actually true, as believers will still be judged by faithfulness.

I have even seen some go as far and say that any sin they commit from here on will not be imputed on them. That however is not what Paul told Timothy !!!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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No true grace teacher says that it is ok to go out and sin. They actually say the very opposite! It's what people "hear" when they hear statements that go against what they have been taught in church

Here is a 16 minute video talking about licence to sin....listen and then ask yourself if grace truly is a licence to sin or not?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg
 
K

KennethC

Guest
The new covenant:

The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:[SUP]16 [/SUP]‘This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.’[SUP][b][/SUP]

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then he adds:
‘Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.’
Yes HEBREWS 10 where verses 19-25 lays out the ground work of what Jesus taught to receive eternal life by receiving remission through Him.

Then verses 26-31 follows up warning if we continue the same sinful path instead.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If all we have is grace what keeps us accountable?
If you truly love your parents. And you know you did something wrong. What keeps you accountable when they forgive you unconditionally?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Hebrews 10:26

Is talking to the Hebrews that were going to go back to the temple sacrifices....the willful sin is ..hearing that Jesus is the Messiah and then deciding to go back to doing the temple as before.

If just any willful sin sends us to hell....we are all going there...lol.. most all sin people do is willful

remember context is king! it is called Hebrews for a reason...selah

Don't take someone else's medicine...



Yes HEBREWS 10 where verses 19-25 lays out the ground work of what Jesus taught to receive eternal life by receiving remission through Him.

Then verses 26-31 follows up warning if we continue the same sinful path instead.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Also if sins power is broken then why is it still so addicting for so many believers? Why do some pastors get caught in adultery? Why are there some christian men out there who still look at porn? Why do Christians still lie, cheat and steal? If sins power were broken we would go back to the time of Eden.

Why are there so many non Christians still under the yoke of sin if the cross broke it. Sin is still alive and active today and we must fight it. The cross has given us the power and freedom to fight it. Before we were powerless.

ever read romans 7 (Not asking sarcastically, just honestly)

Why do kids have the most loving parents anyone could ask. Yet still fail to live up to their standard. What is it inside us that keeps us from being the perfect child..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So then how do we become like him if we don't actively try to be better? You make God sound like an enabler. Sin is addictive and if we are passive about breaking the cycle then we are telling satan that he has won. But if we take a hold of the spirit and use that as a leg up in beating sin (as opposed to expecting the spirit to do all the work) we can beat it, not in its entirety but our hearts will change and we will start to be digusted with our old ways and want to avoid them like the plague. I have seen this change in myself. I have seen myself start to hate my sin and not be so complacent. We can't expect God to do all the work for us. We have to resist temptation with everything we've got. Ya win some and ya lose some but you don't stop fighting, ever. Because once you say, "oh i'm covered by grace" you have given yourself permission to sin" and God has never given us permission to sin, not even under grace.
I disagree.

A parents love is what causes a child to want to be like them, and obey them. Not a parents condemnation.

Grace is not a license to sin, that is a legalistic viewpoint on things, Grace teaches us not to sin, because it does not condemn us when we do. and make us live a life where we have this guideline where we have to keep (which in the reality of things, we can't keep anyway no matter how hard we tried) but a life where we see and experience the love of a Father unlike any love we have experienced before from any of our earthly family. And this love causes us to want to be like him. But not be feared when we screw up. but knowing we can go to our Abba father.
 
K

KennethC

Guest
No true grace teacher says that it is ok to go out and sin. They actually say the very opposite! It's what people "hear" when they hear statements that go against what they have been taught in church

Here is a 16 minute video talking about licence to sin....listen and then ask yourself if grace truly is a licence to sin or not?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fIqZ5sPSEg
I know you are going to keep stating this because of your experiences so far, but I would request to do some research on what we are saying.

Have you ever heard of the big, WAKE UP CALL, that was done in the late 80's ???

Tons of preachers around the U.S. banned together to stop the bad teachings corrupting many churches then telling people that could live however they want.

The doctrine that was doing this was Calvinism also known as OSAS. The call was successful but now days we have 4 different versions of it floating around.

This lead me to research by the Holy Spirit's guidance on the subject. Out of all the papers, quotes, and documents I have seen neither osas or eternal security was taught before the 4th century (301-400 AD).