Hyper grace

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The CHAPTER is artificial???

Dont you believe Paul is speaking of his time as a Pharisee in verses 7-11 ?

He was writing as a former pharisee whose life had centered around the law. That didn't suddenly end when he was converted.

 

[james57]

Of course, it's artificial. Paul didn't make chapters.

It seems that you believe that Paul suddenly switched from being an avid law keeper to living perfectly by grace. Did you never consider the likelihood that he wrestled with the law after he was saved? He didn't start his ministry to the nations for approximately 17 years after his conversion, and the letter to the Romans came later.

You are still trying to circumnavigate the truth of where your view leads for you are uncomfortable in admitting where Tha truth leads. It does not matter at all Paul did not write in chapters. In rom 7'hecdescribes a person who is a slave to sin. In romans 6&8 he makes clear that is not an acceptable state for a christian to be in.

 

[james57]

He was writing as a former pharisee whose life had centered around the law. That didn't suddenly end when he was converted.

Do you believe Paul was solely writing of his life as a Pharisee in rom 7:7-11?

Yes or no

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are still trying to circumnavigate the truth of where your view leads for you are uncomfortable in admitting where Tha truth leads. It does not matter at all Paul did not write in chapters. In rom 7'hecdescribes a person who is a slave to sin. In romans 6&8 he makes clear that is not an acceptable state for a christian to be in.

In chapter 7, Paul describes the flesh as being a slave to sin.

 

[james57]

In chapter 7, Paul describes the flesh as being a slave to sin.

The flesh is the only thing that can be a slave to sin isn't it?

In ch6:16 Paul states if you are a slave to sin it leads to death

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you believe Paul was solely writing of his life as a Pharisee in rom 7:7-11?

Yes or no

No. He wrote of his life. Period. Full stop. Do you think Paul was initially any different than these folks?

And [when] they heard [this], they began to glorify God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many ten thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and they are all zealous adherents of the law. Acts 21:20​

 

[james57]

No. He wrote of his life. Period. Full stop. Do you think Paul was initially any different than these folks?

And [when] they heard [this], they began to glorify God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many ten thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and they are all zealous adherents of the law. Acts 21:20​

Well I don't mean to be unkind, but that response has proven you do not understand ch 7 at all.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The flesh is the only thing that can be a slave to sin isn't it?

In ch6:16 Paul states if you are a slave to sin it leads to death

Yes, it's the only thing. And Paul made clear in Romans 7 that he was more than just flesh.

 

[james57]

No. He wrote of his life. Period. Full stop. Do you think Paul was initially any different than these folks?

And [when] they heard [this], they began to glorify God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many ten thousands there are among the Jews who have believed, and they are all zealous adherents of the law. Acts 21:20​

So for the whole of Paul the christians life sin used the commandment
Thou shalt not covet to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him?

When I am on a computer later today I am going to go into Thi in much more detail. Your belief Tha Paul is speaking of his whole christian life in verses 7-11 is frankly ridiculous

 

[james57]

Yes, it's the only thing. And Paul made clear in Romans 7 that he was more than just flesh.

You are now getting into the same mess grace 779 has been getting into
It doesn't matter in Thi point Paul's life was more than just flesh. You have admitted in rom 7 Paul was a slave to sin, and you can only be a slave to sin in your flesh.
If Paul is speaking as a christian he I condemning himself, for in ch6:16 he said if you are a slave to sin it leads to death

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Well I don't mean to be unkind, but that response has proven you do not understand ch 7 at all.

Do you seriously think that Paul was referring to his life as a Christian-murdering pharisee when he wrote this? The commandment came to life once he received the holy spirit. He died to the law as a Christian, not as a pharisee.

​What then shall we say? Is the law sin? May it never be! But I would not have known sin except through the law, for I would not have known covetousness if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died, and this commandment which was to lead to life was found with respect to me to lead to death. Romans 7:7-10​

 

[james57]

Do you seriously think that Paul was referring to his life as a Christian-murdering pharisee when he wrote this? The commandment came to life once he received the holy spirit. He died to the law as a Christian, not as a pharisee.

​What then shall we say? Is the law sin? May it never be! But I would not have known sin except through the law, for I would not have known covetousness if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died, and this commandment which was to lead to life was found with respect to me to lead to death. Romans 7:7-0​

The commandment came to life in him and slew him as a christian?

Please, enough!

I somehow think the commandment came to the ardent Pharisee when he made a personal commitment to take God seriously as a pharisee

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You are now getting into the same mess grace 779 has been getting into
It doesn't matter in Thi point Paul's life was more than just flesh. You have admitted in rom 7 Paul was a slave to sin, and you can only be a slave to sin in your flesh.
If Paul is speaking as a christian he I condemning himself, for in ch6:16 he said if you are a slave to sin it leads to death

No I didn't. I said his flesh was a slave to sin, as is true for all of us. He didn't let the flesh rule him, so he himself was not a slave to sin.

 

[james57]

Do you seriously think that Paul was referring to his life as a Christian-murdering pharisee when he wrote this? The commandment came to life once he received the holy spirit. He died to the law as a Christian, not as a pharisee.

​What then shall we say? Is the law sin? May it never be! But I would not have known sin except through the law, for I would not have known covetousness if the law had not said, “Do not covet.” But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin is dead. And I was alive once, apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died, and this commandment which was to lead to life was found with respect to me to lead to death. Romans 7:7-10​

Read verses 4-6 Paul was stressing the need to die to a law of righteousness in order to live for Christ
In verses 7-11 he gave a personal example from his own life as to why Thi was necessary

 

[james57]

No I didn't. I said his flesh was a slave to sin, as is true for all of us. He didn't let the flesh rule him, so he himself was not a slave to sin.

Lol, the flesh clearly ruled over Paul in rom7:14-25

 

[james57]

I'm going to start a debate on Thi later. I want to see how many people on Thi website believe Paul was not specifically speaking of his life as a Pharisee in verses 7-11

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The commandment came to life in him and slew him as a christian?

Please, enough!

I somehow think the commandment came to the ardent Pharisee when he made a personal commitment to take God seriously as a pharisee

Yeah sure. Like the 6th commandment came to life and slew him when this happened as a pharisee.

And Saul was consenting unto [Stephen's] death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1

​But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest Acts 9:1​

 

[james57]

Yeah sure. Like the 6th commandment came to life and slew him when this happened as a pharisee.

And Saul was consenting unto [Stephens] death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles. Acts 8:1

​But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest Acts 9:1​

And why do you think Paul the Pharisee wanted christians killed?

Could it be something to do with the law?
Ah, but you think the ten commandments didn't come to Paul as Pharisee do you, but as a christian.

You are seriously wrong here, and it is a tragic Shane you will not admit it. For much of what you write I have great respect for.

 

[james57]

Grace 770 do you also believe Paul is not solely speaking of his life as a Pharisee in rom ch7:7-11. Lynn do you also b wee lieve this?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And why do you think Paul the Pharisee wanted christians killed?

Could it be something to do with the law?
Ah, but you think the ten commandments didn't come to Paul as Pharisee do you, but as a christian.

You are seriously wrong here, and it is a tragic Shane you will not admit it. For much of what you write I have great respect for.

Because he did what his flesh told him to do.