Are we sinners?

[notuptome]

As long as the redeemed soul of man remains in the yet to be redeemed body of mortal flesh man will deal with the reality of sin. Paul describes the war of the new nature in Christ and the old nature of the body. Spirit willing yet flesh weak.

Your flesh will physically die because of sin. The redeemed soul will never die because of the reality of Gods grace. If you say you have no sin you lie which is of course sin. The closer you walk with the Lord the more your sinfulness will be revealed. Only when this mortality puts on immortality will we be free from sin. This is the day all creation groans for.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[PeterJens]

You're right it does require a death. And it starts with agreeing you're not a sinner.

There is confusion here, or at least slightly. Grace7x77 condemns all the law, Israel into failure, and only success through grace. He hates the idea of rules or the law. Repentance as in feeling sorry for failure is rejected.

Now I talk about love, because we know what love is, we experience it in intimate relationships and we desire it in our hearts.

So my question is why do you use the term grace? I would use the term "God so loved the world".

It is Gods love that blew my mind, to know resting in Him nothing can separate me from eternity.

 

[Grace777x70]

I like our new name from our brother that calls us .." neo-gnostic Hyper-Greasy-Gracists "

It makes me want more grace!!...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you think Paul is saying he is stuck in sin, then he is going against everything he taught in Romans 6 and 8.

C.

In Romans 7 and 8, Paul was simply juxtaposing man's degenerate nature against the requirements of the law to demonstrate what dire straights man is in without the non-condemning grace of Christ.

 

[Euphemia]

As a sinful being, how could I possibly be afraid of grace that passes over the judgment due me? I'm grateful.

Pseudo-Grace, however, is something everyone should be wary of being seduced by.

You deny God's great grace at work in your life when you stoop to the lowest of the low and refer to yourself as a sinful being. You basically reject the fact that in Christ we are new creatures, and God doesn't see us as sinners, nor does He impute any sin to us as His Son Jesus was punished fully for it all.

Perhaps you need to take a look at your beliefs. There is definitely some work that needs to be done in your thinking about God's grace and what it really means. I am glad you are grateful, but are you really free in Christ?

.

 

[oldthennew]

our Father created Grace because of who we are...yes, He is Grace personified, shared without price...
He has given us His Love by sharing Himself with us, it is His gift of Himself and it is beyond our human
comprehension..
our Spiritual journey will lead us to understand on an individual basis just what His Love means to us in our lives.....

I pray we come to understand this mystery that is beyond this thin skin we carry - and I pray that we come
to a humility that transcends the earthly curse.....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I like our new name from our brother that calls us .." neo-gnostic Hyper-Greasy-Gracists "

It makes me want more grace!!...

I've stopped doing that, and now am using the term that your co-religionists use: New Grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

How about this scripture?..ages to come sound like a long time to me....that hyper-grace stuff is everywhere....just sayin'...

Ephesians 2:5-7 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Throwing a bunch of scripture verses up against the wall won't accomplish anything but make you think that you've accomplished something.

I am exposing neo-gnostic error in the church. I don't feel like digging up the verse to show you that I am warranted to do so.

1 Corinthians 13:13 actually says that all three remain, with the greatest being love. Strange that grace isn't mentioned therein. The gnostics of Irenaeus day thought that grace was their special possession forever, and ridiculed Christians for thinking that grace was a means to perfection. I bet you think Christ is grace personified.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

our Father created Grace because of who we are...yes, He is Grace personified, shared without price...
He has given us His Love by sharing Himself with us, it is His gift of Himself and it is beyond our human
comprehension..
our Spiritual journey will lead us to understand on an individual basis just what His Love means to us in our lives.....

I pray we come to understand this mystery that is beyond this thin skin we carry - and I pray that we come
to a humility that transcends the earthly curse.....

Where is it written that Christ is grace personified? The fullness of GOD's grace came through him, but I can't find where it is said that he is grace itself.

 

[PeterJens]

One day maybe I will tell you about the family members

I respect your history. The problem in the church is not experiencing intimacy at the deepest levels, and then knowing we are not alone but loved. I believe it is this experience that takes away the hurt and pain that drives sin, our sense of injustice and desire for revenge or to strike back.

A lot of the people in the "grace" camp do not accept this, called it a new philosophy of the world. Now I know this is actually a true experience and part of maturity in the Lord. So you are interesting as we agree on these concepts yet you come within the grace fold, which has moved away from admiting rules have a role, and do not lead to condemnation but freedom when you know you are accepted.

Unfortunately agreeing with me may not make you friends with Grace7x77 and the others.

 

[Cee]

In Romans 7 and 8, Paul was simply juxtaposing man's degenerate nature against the requirements of the law to demonstrate what dire straights man is in without the non-condemning grace of Christ.

Exactly. Before Christ. We now have His grace. So it doesn't apply to us. I'm glad you said that. What do you think the old has passed away and you are dead and are now a new creation means? Did Christ bring us back before the fall? Or even beyond it into something new since now we have the HOLY SPIRIT?

C.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You deny God's great grace at work in your life when you stoop to the lowest of the low and refer to yourself as a sinful being. You basically reject the fact that in Christ we are new creatures, and God doesn't see us as sinners, nor does He impute any sin to us as His Son Jesus was punished fully for it all.

Perhaps you need to take a look at your beliefs. There is definitely some work that needs to be done in your thinking about God's grace and what it really means. I am glad you are grateful, but are you really free in Christ?

.

Paul said that nothing good dwells in the flesh. Last I looked the flesh is still a part of every human who is alive.

Paul said 'I am foremost of sinners', not 'I was the foremost sinner'.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Exactly. Before Christ. We now have His grace. So it doesn't apply to us. I'm glad you said that. What do you think the old has passed away and you are dead and are now a new creation means? Did Christ bring us back before the fall? Or even beyond it into something new since now we have the HOLY SPIRIT?

C.

Of course it applies to us. That is the walk.

 

[Euphemia]

I've stopped doing that, and now am using the term that your co-religionists use: New Grace.

"Co-religionists"?? LOL!


.

 

[PeterJens]

A small note, when I suggested in the Lord we have a hope of walking literally in righteousness, people called me a pharisee.

Now if you hold we are no longer sinners, ie do not sin in the present tense, are washed and clean, then we can walk righteously.

So CEE is suggesting from the grace camp not licentousness but walking in a pleasing way to God, obeying the Lords commands and moral law, empowered by love working out in our hearts. To this I would say amen, though our history is as sinners, empowered by the Spirit we are righteous.

(This observation of positions shows you how diverse our positions actually are, even within similar theological teaching.)

 

[Cee]

Oh I'm sorry sharing Scriptures that apply to this direct topic doesn't accomplish anything, but you showing one verse that warrants you to do so, somehow does? At least I can be bothered to show what 25 or so verses over the last few hours? But that doesn't accomplish anything, okay so tell me some more logic and what Iraenus said since that does accomplish something that Scripture can't.

C.

Throwing a bunch of scripture verses up against the wall won't accomplish anything but make you think that you've accomplished something.

I am exposing neo-gnostic error in the church. I don't feel like digging up the verse to show you that I am warranted to do so.

1 Corinthians 13:13 actually says that all three remain, with the greatest being love. Strange that grace isn't mentioned therein. The gnostics of Irenaeus day thought that grace was their special possession forever, and ridiculed Christians for thinking that grace was a means to perfection. I bet you think Christ is grace personified.

 

[Cee]

Thank you for such a heartfelt reply My philosophy is that freedom doesn't need rules. Rules require control. If rules worked the OT would have worked far better than it did. Jesus transformed us so that His law would be written on our hearts and mind. Written by the Spirit Himself. I've lived in rules. I know it well. And it doesn't transform from the inside out. Sorry, but that's the truth. If you need rules you're hiding the dysfunction inside. By giving people freedom you allow them to embrace the love of God and show real love out of their heart and not out of requirement.

C.

I respect your history. The problem in the church is not experiencing intimacy at the deepest levels, and then knowing we are not alone but loved. I believe it is this experience that takes away the hurt and pain that drives sin, our sense of injustice and desire for revenge or to strike back.

A lot of the people in the "grace" camp do not accept this, called it a new philosophy of the world. Now I know this is actually a true experience and part of maturity in the Lord. So you are interesting as we agree on these concepts yet you come within the grace fold, which has moved away from admiting rules have a role, and do not lead to condemnation but freedom when you know you are accepted.

Unfortunately agreeing with me may not make you friends with Grace7x77 and the others.

 

[Grace777x70]

We all were chief sinners which is why Christ came into the world to save us....Paul was identifying with the rest of the world when he said he was the chief of sinners...as Cee has shown you and I and many others have shown you..after Christ we are new creations in Him..called saints....

1 Timothy 1:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Paul said that nothing good dwells in the flesh. Last I looked the flesh is still a part of every human who is alive.

Paul said 'I am foremost of sinners', not 'I was the foremost sinner'.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Are we sinners? YES. Do Christians sin? YES. Do saved people sin? YES..

 

[Grace777x70]

LOl..I still like the neo-gnostic Hyper-Greasy-Gracists better..it has a better ring of importance to it..

"Co-religionists"?? LOL!


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