No I'm not kidding... How does blood or skin or muscles war against "thou shalt have no other gods before me?
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Romans 7:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
Flesh is in the body..members of our body act out....like stiking someone with our fist..or any number of a thousand things....using our tongues to "lash out" at someone..whatever..
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
Flesh is in the body..members of our body act out....like stiking someone with our fist..or any number of a thousand things....using our tongues to "lash out" at someone..whatever..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. Again, I think it comes to the defenition we use
If we use John defenition of sinner in his epistle. I agree with you, I am not a sinner, I can;t be, I am born of God
If we use the defenition given by the law. I am a sinner, and must always remember, that while also remembering, I am also saved by Grace ..
to focus on one and not the other, is dangerous.
Did Jesus hate the righteous?
Listening to some hear you would think Jesus is condemning righteous people.
eternally-gratefull - You are happy to condemn the righteous and put them straight.
This action done in the body wars against our inner man which wants to do good..we know we have hurt someone and yet if we yield to the flesh we bring forth death..yield to the spirit and we get life..
Look, how explicit do you want me to be?
You're kidding right?
I walk down the street and see a real hunk of a man. In my mind I know I should not think impurely concerning him, for I am a Christian, but the members of my body say differently
In my mind I know I should not lust, I am a Christian, but in the members of my body it is natural to lust-conflict results
Exactly. You've just proven my point... Paul wasn't talking about flesh and blood, he was talking about the outward man, the flesh. That's why I asked are there any verse in the bible that say the flesh is renewed, redeemed or gets better. I don't believe there are any.
Maybe it's the term "outward" man as the only time that term is used is in relation to the body....our body definitely wants to do stuff contrary to our inner man..
The term "Flesh" is used 3 different ways in scripture..maybe there are more..don't know..
1)..flesh as it relates to the body itself..ie..flesh and blood
2) it is used as the place where the power of sin resides within our body
3) it is used in describing self-effort
Any one know any more?..it's a fascinating subject to me..it answers some questions I had for years..
1)..flesh as it relates to the body itself..ie..flesh and blood
2) it is used as the place where the power of sin resides within our body
3) it is used in describing self-effort
Any one know any more?..it's a fascinating subject to me..it answers some questions I had for years..
K
KennethC
Guest
2 Corinthians 7:1
Apostle Paul states here we are to clean the flesh (outer self) and the spirit (inner self) both !!!
This is not the only place Paul states this change in our lives, as he also states in Ephesians 4:17 that we can no longer walk as we original walked.
To state there is no change in our outer self is to deny the working of the Holy Spirit who abides in us, as that is clearly one of His things He was sent to do. Guide us away from continuing the same sinful lifestyles.
As for the question of the OP, yes we are to still consider ourselves sinners based on how we use to walk, not how we now walk in the Spirit. Paul makes this stance when he calls himself chief sinner for what he did before he was converted (1 Timothy 1:15).
I have only read the question and not yet the post so forgive me if by answering the question it seems off topic- I apologize for that. My answer to this Poll is that a Christian cannot use any answer as a valid conclusion. Except I'm not sure...and we all know where that leads. But the yes and no answer is impossible to conclude as a overall concept. If by grace we are saved, and Jesus freed us from sin, it is obvious we can be in Him and be seen sin- free thru Christ to God. However, we live by faith. Thus we cannot say that end of judgement before the act of living is concluded. We know the absolute completion of the availability to a sin -free life, we know that if we remain in Christ He will keep us there, but no one can guarantee what an individuals will will do. This is the issue that makes us not able to answer this Poll with the suggested answers. a guaranteed victory -"Yes" , a guaranteed power given to our will to accept or deny it, and a Satan that will fight God for our souls, yet still.
"....It's desire is for you, but you must rule over it." Gen. 4:7. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a New Creation. The Old has passed away; behold the New has come." 2 Corinthians 5:17. If we remain in this we do indeed secure freedom of sin by obedience to the spirit, by way of Jesus on a cross, but the fight is still on to dislodge us from what is rightly now ours to have. Not a fight Satan has a chance to win if we remain in Christ, but only if we veer from that center in our lives via sin can he gain access back into domination over Gods more than conquering victory. Yet, it is still dependent on our obedience through our will, our will to remain in things already accomplished in Christ.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin." John 8:34. "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26. Or another way of putting it: If we allow sin to exist in our habits, the overwhelming power of Christ's victory on a cross over sin is null and void.
My official answer here must be: It depends on the measure of faith we live by. We are saved by grace through faith. The first is the miracle, but the second is the nitty-gritty truth of where the rubber meets the road in our walk of that miracle. In the actual truth of our acceptance of receiving Christ.
"....It's desire is for you, but you must rule over it." Gen. 4:7. "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a New Creation. The Old has passed away; behold the New has come." 2 Corinthians 5:17. If we remain in this we do indeed secure freedom of sin by obedience to the spirit, by way of Jesus on a cross, but the fight is still on to dislodge us from what is rightly now ours to have. Not a fight Satan has a chance to win if we remain in Christ, but only if we veer from that center in our lives via sin can he gain access back into domination over Gods more than conquering victory. Yet, it is still dependent on our obedience through our will, our will to remain in things already accomplished in Christ.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin." John 8:34. "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." Hebrews 10:26. Or another way of putting it: If we allow sin to exist in our habits, the overwhelming power of Christ's victory on a cross over sin is null and void.
My official answer here must be: It depends on the measure of faith we live by. We are saved by grace through faith. The first is the miracle, but the second is the nitty-gritty truth of where the rubber meets the road in our walk of that miracle. In the actual truth of our acceptance of receiving Christ.
I'm pretty sure there are two men, the inward man and the outer man aka the flesh. Do you know of any verses that say the flesh is redeemable or gets renewed? My point is that the sin nature and our sin doesn't go away when we get saved, we still have the same desires and the same weaknesses because the outer man is not subject to the law of God nor can be. As long as we are these bodies, we will continue to sin and our sin has no bearring on God's love for us.
Some people believe that when we get saved then we stop sinning. The bible teaches exactly the opposite of that.
You don't stop sinning, because you can't be perfect in the flesh, but you are supposed to sin a lot less once you get saved than you did before
Jesus said the Pharisees cleaned the outside of the cup but on the inside they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean. So I am not sure if Jesus would consider lust as the outside of the cup
Oh yes..the flesh will always want it's way!....Christians will always sin when they yield to the flesh..but they can stop it by yielding to the spirit instead....this conflict will remain until we leave this earth!
Paul doesn't seem to recognize the sin that is in his flesh as part of him...that may cause some confusion too..
Romans 7:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Romans 7:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
There appears to be more going on with this "sin" business in us...
I found this helped me sort things like this out..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA
Paul doesn't seem to recognize the sin that is in his flesh as part of him...that may cause some confusion too..
Romans 7:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
Romans 7:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
There appears to be more going on with this "sin" business in us...
I found this helped me sort things like this out..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA
I believe He was telling them they needed to be born-again....have their hearts changed...become a new creation ..
I thought in Matt 23 Jesus was attacking the people they were, not trying to save them
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
How can we discuss anything if you refuse to see what I am trying to say.
As long as you continue to assume you know what I am saying, and keep making comments like this, which just belittles the one you think you are having a discussion.
We can go no where.
It is arrogance to think you can tell a person they do not know what they are talking about (like you have done to me) when you continually show by what your saying, you haven't got a clear understanding of what they are saying.
It is like me saying 2 X 2 is 4, and you arrogantly going on this log rant, about how your wife this, and the world that, and if I would get my head of of my behind, I would know 2 X 2 is really 5.. (example purpose only, I am not saying you believe 2 X 2 is 5)
That is what is going on I proved it by showing me in your own post. you did not get one thing of what I was saying right.