"Just borrowing from something I wrote in the past..."
No problem, if that's what makes you feel good.
Revelation Timeline
- Thread starter DiscipleDave
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No problem, if that's what makes you feel good.
Hang on a minute now lol. Consider this, 69 weeks til Messiah came. Then after this He confirms the covenant for one week... 7 feasts."I think you should stay with your previous belief..."
70 weeks = 70 x 7 years = 490 years
"Don't overthink it..."
Passover - Jesus was the Passover Lamb. Fulfilled.
Unleavened Bread - Jesus became the unleavened bread of life. Fulfilled.
Firstfruits - Jesus the first resurrected. Fulfilled.
Pentecost - Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the church. Partially fulfilled. Paused because all of the church is not here yet.
Trumpets - Not fulfilled yet.
Attonement - Not fulfilled yet.
Tabernacles - Not fulfilled yet.
When the last three are fulfilled, the transgression will be finished, an end of sins will have been made, and reconciliation for iniquity, and everlasting righteousness will be brought in, vision and prophecy sealed up, and the most Holy will be annointed.
That's just the way I see it now... my mind could be changed.
Problem still is.... Jesus in not the one in Dan.9:27 that confirms (strengthens) a covenant. It's the "vile person" of Dan.11 and "little horn" of Dan.8 that does that, along with placing the abomination idol. The false doctrine you're following has Jesus placing the abomination idol, which is undoubtedly a doctrine the unbelieving Jews would fabricate.
No, Jesus came to offer... the New Covenant, not confirm it.
Jesus is not... the one of Dan.9:27, because that one in Dan.9:27 also causes the end of sacrifice with placing the abomination idol of Dan.11:31. That is about the vile person and little horn, not Jesus.
Where in the verse below does anyone place the abomination idol?
Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
The clause, "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" is connected with the previous phrase, "and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease."
We are shown in Dan.11:31 specifically what that "overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" is about, i.e, the placing of an idol abomination in the temple at Jerusalem, which is what Jesus warning that when see it in the "holy place", get out of Judea (Matt.24).
But if you want to side with the unbelieving Jews in trying to say Jesus places an abomination idol in the temple at Jerusalem, then it means your soul is in danger.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV
The clause, "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" is connected with the previous phrase, "and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease."
We are shown in Dan.11:31 specifically what that "overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate" is about, i.e, the placing of an idol abomination in the temple at Jerusalem, which is what Jesus warning that when see it in the "holy place", get out of Judea (Matt.24).
But if you want to side with the unbelieving Jews in trying to say Jesus places an abomination idol in the temple at Jerusalem, then it means your soul is in danger.
They"ll know after he makes it.
...Almost like the Pelosi statement, you have to pass it to know what's in it (and that's what the doctor says)...
I agree the phrase is connected with the previous phrase. But read what it says... it says "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate". Overspreading means broad or wide spread abominations committed by someone or some group of people. Who do you think that group of people was? Who committed horrible abominations against Jesus and God's people. Who rejected Jesus and wanted him crucified. Who did Jesus curse and say behold your house is left unto you desolate?
It's the Jews that did all this, it's the Jews that committed the abominations and because of all those abominations, He Jesus made them desolate.
G
GaryA
Guest
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. ~ Daniel 9:27
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. ~ Daniel 11:31
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. ~ Daniel 12:11
Let's see...
For the verses in Daniel 11 & 12:
'the abomination' (singular) that [ itself ] "maketh desolate"
For the verse in Daniel 9:
"because of the 'proliferation and extent' of abominations" (plural) - 'he' ( Christ [ or, a person - and not the abomination itself ] ) - shall make [it] desolate
I do not believe that Daniel 9:27 is identically the same as the other two. I believe it is more probable that the abomination spoken of in Daniel 11 & 12 is one of the abominations spoken of in Daniel 9. I think Daniel 9 is "looking at a bigger picture" in this regard.
Consider the idea that God had the temple destroyed so the Jews would not "unwittingly" continue to commit abominations in the form of making sacrifices in the [physical] temple after Christ's resurrection. Since He was the "one-time sufficient sacrifice" -- and, since God afterward "made His abode" in "a temple not made with hands" - a spiritual temple by the Holy Spirit indwelling believers -- sacrifices made [to God] in the [physical] temple would be abominations in of themselves.
I believe that "shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" in Daniel 9:27 is speaking of the moment Christ died and the veil was rent:
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. ~ Mark 15:38
The other two verses, of course, are speaking of that same "abomination of desolation" mentioned in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 -- which I personally believe had to have occurred some time just before 70 A.D.
I believe that the desolation spoken of in Daniel 9:27 does most certainly apply to the events circa 70 A.D.
The phrase "even until the consummation" tells me that there will not be another temple built before the Second Coming of Christ.
..........
What God first gave Abraham and he believed God, and God counted his belief as righteousness was by 'promise', not by covenant.
Hope that above sinks in before you read this next part.
The covenant that came later was the 'token' of circumcision. The Promise was always first by Faith, meaning through BELIEF, and not by any contract (covenant) making, not even by the later 'token' of circumcision.
This is why... none are required to get flesh circumcised as a part of believing on Jesus Christ for the remission of sins past. ONLY FAITH THROUGH BELIEVING ON HIM IS REQUIRED, like what Abraham did.
Thus God's Promise by Faith to Abraham is one thing; and the 'circumcision' token was that of a flesh covenant making, which 'token' STILL was only... to point to when the New Covenant would be established through Jesus at His 1st coming.
This is the type of distinction Apostle Paul was making in the Galatians 3 chapter.
I think the abomination that maketh desolate is right here.
Psalm 88:8 KJV
Thou hast put away mine acquaintance far from me; thou hast made me an abomination unto them: I am shut up, and I cannot come forth.
Gal 3:2
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJV
Gal 3:17-18
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
KJV
That "promise" by Faith was given first, and not by covenant, because Paul is showing making covenants involves the law, whereas by promise cannot be disannuled by any law.
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJV
Gal 3:17-18
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
KJV
That "promise" by Faith was given first, and not by covenant, because Paul is showing making covenants involves the law, whereas by promise cannot be disannuled by any law.
G
GaryA
Guest
Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
These things were fulfilled at / during the First Coming of Christ.
These things were fulfilled at / around 70 A.D.
This is referring to "the finishing of all things" - which is, essentially, at the Second Coming of Christ.
..........Daniel 9:
[SUP]24[/SUP] Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. [SUP]25[/SUP] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [SUP]26[/SUP] And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. [SUP]27[/SUP] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Verse 24 describes what is to be accomplished during the 70 weeks:
~ to finish the transgression
The finishing of the transgression was the crucifying of Christ.
~ and to make an end of sins
~ and to make reconciliation for iniquity
~ and to bring in everlasting righteousness
Fully accomplished by the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
~ and to seal up the vision and prophecy
Complete fulfillment by the end of the 70 weeks.
~ and to anoint the most Holy
This is referring to Christ - by virtue of His baptism - and possibly, by virtue of His resurrection.
Grammatically speaking, the phrase 'seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks' in verse 25 cannot be "dismantled" so that - in the next verse - 62 weeks can be added to the seven weeks at the beginning of this phrase.
The words 'And after' in the phrase 'And after threescore and two weeks' in verse 26 refer back to the last part of verse 25 - 'the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.' -- the 'countdown' for the 62 weeks starts at the end of the rebuilding of Jerusalem.
The phrase 'And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week' does not indicate a "1-week covenant"; but, rather - that the confirmation of the covenant is for 1 week.
With regard to the last part of verse 26 - 'and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.' - please read this post.
I believe the phrase 'he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease' in verse 27 is referring to the occurance of - and the ramifications of - this:
Mark 15:
38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
It is not talking about the Abomination of Desolation.
I believe the phrase 'and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate' in verse 27 is referring to the desolation of the temple.
I believe the phrase 'even until the consummation' in verse 27 is referring to "the finishing of all things" - which is, essentially, at the Second Coming of Christ. Based on this, I believe that this verse is telling us that there will be no 3rd temple before the return of Christ.
Hardly... wasn't you in another post that mentioned about Antiochus Epiphenes of history having fulfilled the Dan.11 Scripture? It doesn't take much historical research to find out that Antiochus IV setup an idol abomination in the temple at Jerusalem around 170 B.C.
Nor does it take much effort to read Ezekiel 8 to find out what God calls an abomination setup there at the temple that makes Him jealous.
Obviously, you've come here to try and confuse my Christian brethren on these things.
Oh, but circumcision was an act of making a covenant. That's why it is no longer required for those who accept Christ Jesus as their Savior. It went away with the old covenant, as part of the blood ordinances. It was replaced with circumcision of the heart, made into a spiritual idea instead.
Nope, Antiochus Epiphenes isn't in the bible so as far as biblical prophecy goes he doesn't exist. The bible is all that's needed to understand prophecy. And no, I'm not here to conufuse anyone, I just read the bible and I believe exactly what it says. The bible says in Psalms that Jesus was an abomination to the Jews and I believe it. He must definitely was the abomination that made them desolate, but whether or not that is what Daniel is referring to, I don't know for sure but I think it is.
G
GaryA
Guest
..........The following list of phrases, taken from the above quoted verses, is listed in chronological order of fulfillment of the events associated with each phrase:
and to anoint the most Holy
This is referring to Jesus -- I believe - at His baptism. Secondarily, in a broader sense after His resurrection and ascension.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
'he' is Jesus; the covenant is [ directly ] the old covenant, and [ indirectly ] the new covenant.
shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself
This is referring to the events of the passion - the crucifixion in particular.
to finish the transgression
This is referring to the crucifixion as the "finishing of the transgression" of Israel.
and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness
These things were accomplished by Christ by His death, burial, and resurrection -- not just for Israel, but for all...
and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease
This is referring to the aftermath of the renting of the veil at His death on the cross.
and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate ( even until the consummation )
'he' is Jesus; because of various abominations involving the temple, He caused the temple to be destroyed.
and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
This is 70 A.D.
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate
This is referring to the aftermath of the desolation of the temple.
and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined
This is 70-73 A.D.
and to seal up the vision and prophecy
"All of the prophecy and vision is fulfilled by the end of the 490 years..."
( I left the 'consummation' phrase where it is because it is an "extension" of the phrase in front of it. )
The 'abominations' phrase is the "decree" that brings about the line that follows it.
A similar association exists for the next two lines.
You absolutely must learn that Biblical prophesy is not written in a verse-by-verse, phrase-by-phrase, chronological order. Just because something comes first in a passage of scripture - does not make it first chronologically.
You must pay attention to the "grammar of the language" --- it is the key thing that will help you understand what a passage of scripture is actually saying... ( or not saying)
"Just sayin'..."
