Can a christian lose their salvation

[PeterJens]

God is brutal.

He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
John 15:2

no fruit nothing changes, there is no result of all the words that have gone in to someones life.

Only a empty gospel would dare to preach fruit does not matter, proof is essential. You are not talking minor issues here, but heaven and hell, light and darkness, slavery and freedom, love and hate, selfishness and servant-hood.

 

[Grace777x70]

Wow..God is brutal!!...what a statement of one's concept of God..our loving Father..

Are you a branch with no fruit?

What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener! A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.)

Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun. Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son.

They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love. When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.

What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours. If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us.

We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).


If anyone is interested in Grace-based view of the finished work of Christ for us..click below..it'll make Jesus bigger and exalted once you see the LOVE He has for us..

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches? – Escape to Reality

 

[Gr8grace]

It does not matter what people think, it matters what God says, God already said many will get to judgement day thinking they are saved, when they are no more saved that satan was.

Satan kills 2 birds with one stone.........religion.

religions focus on stopping sin blinds the "good" folks from the gospel and antagonizes His grace for the "bad" people.

One group thinks they are "good enough" and the other is led to believe it's impossible.

We are going to be more shocked who didn't make it, than who did.

Went to church their whole lives,fed the poor,claimed they pretty much quit sinning,spent countless hours cleaning the church,counseled others,lived selflessly.............but their faith was jesus + cleaning up their lives for their salvation and never relied solely on The Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes. Abraham and Issac.

I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
Gen 22:15-17

because you have done this - doing proves the reality of faith.

Everyone has passing convictions, they convince themselves they will do something, but somehow it never happens.
The proof of change is in the change in behaviour. The proof of good teaching is in the fruit.

The proof of good seed for a gardener is plants that grow up and produce their own seed.

If you hold God does not need proof, then he would have rewarded Abraham without asking him to sacrifice Isaac.

Until you confess your faith to someone else it is just in your head. This is why praise is so important, it is declaring the spiritual reality in your soul. The question I would ask is the exact opposite, if there is no external change there is no internal change either. You have to balance this with time, as a seed grows a lot before the leaves finally break through but it is still true.

I get it, God did not know abraham was going to do it until he did it. God has no great power, he does not know the future. He is a flawed human..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Nooooooooooooo...

 

[PeterJens]

Listen to righteousness. It matters. God cannot be mocked.

Hyper-grace is not gospel at all only appeasement for the lazy and indolent.
Everyday 150,000 die, and go to judgement.

You cannot earn salvation but you can ignore and not respond.

Ten virgins

Those who did not prepare for a long wait, lost out.

"But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’" Matt 25:12

Gold bags entrusted

And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Matt 25:30

Sheep and goats

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
Matt 25:41-43

Now these parables are spoken by Jesus your Lord so take real heed, they are no jest.

 

[PeterJens]

I get it, God did not know abraham was going to do it until he did it. God has no great power, he does not know the future. He is a flawed human..

You have no knowledge of human nature. We are the product of our actions and experience. Without actions it is merely thoughts and aspirations, which without results are just hot air.

Until Abraham did what he was asked to do, he had not proved he would do it.

You appear to want to call God a liar.

"because you have done this"

God is rewarding righteous action as a result of faith, not faith alone. And literally everything in scripture is to give us an example. If someone has real faith, they will declare it with their mouths, do good works with their lives because they now wish to love and help. It is impossible for them to do otherwise.

Only a spiritually blind person cannot grasp the results prove the change in someones life, to themselves and to the world.
Now why would not God let this whole process work through until its end to show this very connection.

Hyper-grace believes you have a pure, perfect spirit within you. But if you continue to sin, that is a lie, because it is impossible to sin with such a spirit dwelling within you. As Paul says you are a slave to righteousness.

Yet when I talk about fruit and failure, no they are still ok. When I talk of sin, no they are just carnal.

So this is lies and hypocracy with no backbone or even agreement with scripture.

 

[Gr8grace]

God is brutal.

He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
John 15:2

no fruit nothing changes, there is no result of all the words that have gone in to someones life.

Only a empty gospel would dare to preach fruit does not matter, proof is essential. You are not talking minor issues here, but heaven and hell, light and darkness, slavery and freedom, love and hate, selfishness and servant-hood.

Our fruit is the doctrine in our soul. Here, on this site, our fruit is what we type and our words.

Fruit is essential for brothers to hear and see so as to discern if another is a believer or an unbeliever. A loser believer or a winner believer.

"God is brutal"........fruit from another. It speaks volumes to another brother to discern where that person is coming from.

IMO, it's not good fruit. But its not YOU that gets thrown into the fire, Its this type of bad fruit that is cut off and burned.

Satan says God is brutal, we are witnesses For Christ to show satan that God is Not brutal and is full of Grace and Mercy and is JUST and RIGHTEOUS.

 

[PeterJens]

Our fruit is the doctrine in our soul. Here, on this site, our fruit is what we type and our words.

Fruit is essential for brothers to hear and see so as to discern if another is a believer or an unbeliever. A loser believer or a winner believer.

"God is brutal"........fruit from another. It speaks volumes to another brother to discern where that person is coming from.

IMO, it's not good fruit. But its not YOU that gets thrown into the fire, Its this type of bad fruit that is cut off and burned.

Satan says God is brutal, we are witnesses For Christ to show satan that God is Not brutal and is full of Grace and Mercy and is JUST and RIGHTEOUS.

You sound gay. Compromise, compromise, everything is rosy.

But also you lie. You hold with eternal torture of every soul not in heaven, conscious eternal torture without end or mercy or limit for not knowing and accepting Christ, even before Christ came. That is brutal, really brutal.

Let me show you God being brutal, but just.

“Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.
Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’”
Exodus 32:26-27

This was Gods response to the golden calf idolatry. God cannot be mocked. The Lord will respond but do not fall into His hands but repent and acknowledge His judgement and righteousness, His truth and justice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have no knowledge of human nature. We are the product of our actions and experience. Without actions it is merely thoughts and aspirations, which without results are just hot air.

Until Abraham did what he was asked to do, he had not proved he would do it.

You appear to want to call God a liar.

"because you have done this"

God is rewarding righteous action as a result of faith, not faith alone. And literally everything in scripture is to give us an example. If someone has real faith, they will declare it with their mouths, do good works with their lives because they now wish to love and help. It is impossible for them to do otherwise.

Only a spiritually blind person cannot grasp the results prove the change in someones life, to themselves and to the world.
Now why would not God let this whole process work through until its end to show this very connection.

Hyper-grace believes you have a pure, perfect spirit within you. But if you continue to sin, that is a lie, because it is impossible to sin with such a spirit dwelling within you. As Paul says you are a slave to righteousness.

Yet when I talk about fruit and failure, no they are still ok. When I talk of sin, no they are just carnal.

So this is lies and hypocracy with no backbone or even agreement with scripture.

I did not ask if humans needed proof.

I asked if God needed proof.

If you were not so bent on proving me wrong in everything, you would not make yourself look the way you do..

So again, I ask, Why does God need proof?

 

[Gr8grace]

Wow..God is brutal!!...what a statement of one's concept of God..our loving Father..

Are you a branch with no fruit?

What happens to unfruitful branches? Jesus said the branches that don’t bear fruit are “lifted up” (Jn 15:2). They are not cut off – that is a bad translation that would’ve made no sense to a Mediterranean listener! A viticulturalist would never throw away a branch for that would be like amputating part of the vine. (If you’re thinking of suckers, see my note in the comments below.)

Unfruitful branches are lifted out of the dirt and re-dressed so they can be nourished by the sun. Sticking with that metaphor, the reason why some Christians are barren is that they’re facedown in the dirt and not looking at the Son.

They’re busy, distracted, stressed, and have wandered from their protos agape, their primary love. When believers lose sight of Christ’s love they tend to become religious, just like the Ephesians. The next thing you know, they’re thinking that they have do stuff like obey His commandments to prove their love or earn His.

What is the remedy for unfruitful branches? God is. He is the Gardener who does the lifting up. He is not there to slash and burn but to prune and lift. As you begin to bear fruit it will be for His glory, not yours. If you’ve been distracted doing the dead works of religion, just stop and come back to your first love which is His love. His love is like food for us.

We are energized by it. I might tell myself that I am writing these posts because of my love for Him, but in truth, it’s His love for me that compels me to tell others the good news. I would not love Him except that He has first loved me (1 Jn 4:19).


If anyone is interested in Grace-based view of the finished work of Christ for us..click below..it'll make Jesus bigger and exalted once you see the LOVE He has for us..

What Happens to Unfruitful Branches? – Escape to Reality

It was just recently that I learned this truth Grace777. I always taught it was the sin unto death(physical death) for the believer. Thanks for putting it up.

 

[Grace777x70]

Ok...we are in a different covenant now..it's called the New Covenant.

Jesus is perfect theology...show us where Jesus did anything you are talking about..

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

You sound gay. Compromise, compromise, everything is rosy.

But also you lie. You hold with eternal torture of every soul not in heaven, conscious eternal torture without end or mercy or limit for not knowing and accepting Christ, even before Christ came. That is brutal, really brutal.

Let me show you God being brutal, but just.

“Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.
Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’”
Exodus 32:26-27

This was Gods response to the golden calf idolatry. God cannot be mocked. The Lord will respond but do not fall into His hands but repent and acknowledge His judgement and righteousness, His truth and justice.

 

[JesusIsAll]

No.

(Must be ten letters error? The Bible even recommends an answer being yea or nay in Matthew 5:37, so why can't you use that answer on a Bible discussion board?)

 

[PeterJens]

I did not ask if humans needed proof.
I asked if God needed proof.
If you were not so bent on proving me wrong in everything, you would not make yourself look the way you do..
So again, I ask, Why does God need proof?

I am not bent on proving anything in regard to your sharing, just what I do not agree with from my walk with Jesus.

It is God who looks for fruit, from the response to His words.

So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Matt 25:26

God is a gardener, a farmer, a sower of seed, reaping a harvest. So your question has no meaning, because it is framed incorrectly. God has created the universe with proof, and proof shows what has happened.

So God does not express whether he needs proof of something or not, so I do not know the answer to the question, all I can say is what God has done and how expresses himself. Produce fruit or you are dead.

I suspect you want to have zero evidence of something and then claim it is important because it could have been something. This insane thinking or connection is to justify dead and empty works, or a barren soul without results and still there is salvation or something of value. In some weird way you have said no results is ok, because looking for results is evil and self justification. That is simply insane.

 

[Gr8grace]

You sound gay. Compromise, compromise, everything is rosy.

But also you lie. You hold with eternal torture of every soul not in heaven, conscious eternal torture without end or mercy or limit for not knowing and accepting Christ, even before Christ came. That is brutal, really brutal.

Let me show you God being brutal, but just.

“Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.
Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’”
Exodus 32:26-27

This was Gods response to the golden calf idolatry. God cannot be mocked. The Lord will respond but do not fall into His hands but repent and acknowledge His judgement and righteousness, His truth and justice.

I am trying to tell you that everything is not rosy for you Peter. Your theology and beliefs or FRUITS, tell me you are not saved or have forgotten your true salvation.

You have compromised His grace. And that is where His salvation for us is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not bent on proving anything in regard to your sharing, just what I do not agree with from my walk with Jesus.

It is God who looks for fruit, from the response to His words.

So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?
Matt 25:26

God is a gardener, a farmer, a sower of seed, reaping a harvest. So your question has no meaning, because it is framed incorrectly. God has created the universe with proof, and proof shows what has happened.

So God does not express whether he needs proof of something or not, so I do not know the answer to the question, all I can say is what God has done and how expresses himself. Produce fruit or you are dead.

I suspect you want to have zero evidence of something and then claim it is important because it could have been something. This insane thinking or connection is to justify dead and empty works, or a barren soul without results and still there is salvation or something of value. In some weird way you have said no results is ok, because looking for results is evil and self justification. That is simply insane.

You scare me!

God does not need proof of anything, He KNOWS if your faith is real or not. before you do one work. Proof of this is seen in both David and Abraham, David was called a man after gods heart as a kid before he did one act. And abraham was declared righteous by his faith alone before he did one act.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father. So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

This kind of theology is called heresy. It is merely rewriting scripture to suit your own understanding of justice and truth.
Many groups have done this in the past, and many will do it today and in the future.

Unfortunately Jesus's parables about casting people out into the darkness are no more brutal than killing people for within Israel after they had been delivered from Egypt, by fire and cloud, seen God kill and slaughter the Egyptian army, and yet it is now wrong to bring judgement on Israel for face to face rebellion.

If you cannot stomach this you do not understand heaven and hell, and cannot stand before Jesus and the Father.

Gods judgement is final. If you cannot trust Him you do not know His son. If a sin against the Father face to face does not deserve death, you have not understood Hell and the lake of fire.

Grace7x77 is playing games and is out of his depth. This is the big league and you are arguing against the Lord, claiming to be a follower. Judgement will fall on you for blasphemy and heresy if you continue. I have seen this happen to those who claim such vast ideas with the Lords authority behind it, when there is no justification. So repent and humble yourself before the Spirit falls on you.

 

[Grace777x70]

okie dokie.....

 

[Grace777x70]

Luke 9:54-56 (NASB)
[SUP]54 [/SUP] When His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them?"
[SUP]55 [/SUP] But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of;
[SUP]56 [/SUP] for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." .

 

[PeterJens]

You scare me!

God does not need proof of anything, He KNOWS if your faith is real or not. before you do one work. Proof of this is seen in both David and Abraham, David was called a man after gods heart as a kid before he did one act. And abraham was declared righteous by his faith alone before he did one act.

Let me ask two simple questions. Why did God choose Saul as King, knowing he would fail? Why did God choose Judas as a disciple knowing he would betray him? Because the fruit of the heart needs to come out to prove what it is.

God foreknows the results, but that does not mean they do not happen.

A fruitless branch in Grace7x77 anology is a repaired and rejuvinated branch. But as all gardeners know some branches die from disease and problems. Jesus is describing fruitless branches for a reason, fruit matters.

But fruit is inevitable, it is not something to get upset about, walk with the Lord and fruit appears.

But hyper-grace would rather say that is being too hard on people, so we must change the meaning when Jesus is obvious.
Many are called, few are chosen.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matt 7:13

The reason hyper-grace hate these verses because they imply effort and work, which they read as evil. Trouble is then they condemn Jesus as being evil, as he said the words and parables. It is why their position is untenable.