SIN

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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#1
Taken from JC RYLE (1816 - 1900) Holiness.


"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)


He who wishes to attain right views about Christian holiness — must begin by examining the vast and solemn subject of sin. He must dig down very low — if he would build high. A mistake here is most mischievous. Wrong views about holiness — are generally traceable to wrong views about human corruption. I make no apology for beginning this volume of messages about holiness, by making some plain statements about sin.


The plain truth is, that a right understanding of SIN lies at the root of all saving Christianity. Without it, such doctrines as justification, conversion, sanctification, are "words and names" which convey no meaning to the mind. The first thing, therefore, that God does when He makes anyone a new creature in Christ, is to send light into his heart and show him that he is a guilty sinner! The material creation in Genesis began with "light," and so also does the spiritual creation. God "shines into our hearts" by the work of the Holy Spirit — and then spiritual life begins (2 Corinthians 4:6).


Dim or indistinct views of sin are the origin of most of the errors, heresies and false doctrines of the present day. If a man does not realize the dangerous nature of his soul's disease — you cannot wonder if he is content with false or imperfect remedies. I believe that one of the chief needs of the contemporary church has been, and is — clearer, fuller teaching about sin.


(you can get the book free online just google it.)


It's amazing how many don't like to talk about sin as it may offend people, or maybe we don't want to be mocked or laughed at ourselves? What are your thoughts?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#2
The topic of sin walks hand in hand with the topic of total depravity.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#3

It's amazing how many don't like to talk about sin as it may offend people, or maybe we don't want to be mocked or laughed at ourselves? What are your thoughts?
My thought is that you must be kidding if you think many don't like to talk about sin, it's pretty much all anyone wants to talk about. I think Satan has done a masterful job of keeping Christians obsessed with what He took care of 2000 years ago.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#4
its all people want to talk about? on the one hand you have the hyper grace movement who for some reason dont think sin is a problem for them and on the other those who are frightened to talk about it for fear of offending (non christians). The hyper grace movement especially the no Lordship movement (although hopefully dying out) have done huge damage in the church and still are.

If christians discuss it amongst themselves thats a good thing..they realise their need...I wouldnt say they are obsessed by it.. one thing any mature christian notices and that is just how sinful he is and rejoices all the more in Jesus..Its a humbling thing to see how sinful we are.
 
D

dalconn

Guest
#5
Hebrews 12:14


Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
4,834
981
113
34
#6
Really? I would think that if you wish to study holiness you would examine the life of Jesus Christ, and who He is. Not sin. Surely sin represents what not to do, and Christ represents what to do. Shall you put your eyes onto sin and be changed, or as scripture states, to behold Christ as in a mirror going from glory to glory?

People are a
ware of sin far too often at their own peril. Guilt and condemnation coming in heaps and bounds. An awareness of sin has only the power to condemn us before God. An awareness of righteousness (imputed) has the ability to transform our conduct, by the renewal of our minds. I am not saying knowing something is wrong is not beneficial, but knowing who we are in Christ is truly the remedy to victory over sin.

Has not the fruit of staring do
wn the Law revealed itself? It has no power to make us righteous, holy, and good though it may be so. It has the power to bring us to our knees in desperation seeking mercy because we all fall short of God's glory. Hence, the plan of reconciliation. For man to see his inadequacy to save himself through means of self-righteousness and see that only a righteousness that is by faith is their hope. A faith in Jesus Christ.

You
want to live holy? A righteous endeavor. The problem is that the study of sin will but condemn. It doesn't have the power to transform you, and a study of it will only breed in you self-righteousness and an effort put forth from the flesh. Lets continue in the spirit and not the flesh. Lets behold Jesus and be transformed. Lets renew our minds so that we may walk and reign in this life by His grace. Renew our minds to His truth that defines us in such a way that sin doesn't have dominion over us. That is the key. Not a study of sin, but a revelation and growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#7
Taken from JC RYLE (1816 - 1900) Holiness.


"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)


He who wishes to attain right views about Christian holiness — must begin by examining the vast and solemn subject of sin. He must dig down very low — if he would build high. A mistake here is most mischievous. Wrong views about holiness — are generally traceable to wrong views about human corruption. I make no apology for beginning this volume of messages about holiness, by making some plain statements about sin.


The plain truth is, that a right understanding of SIN lies at the root of all saving Christianity. Without it, such doctrines as justification, conversion, sanctification, are "words and names" which convey no meaning to the mind. The first thing, therefore, that God does when He makes anyone a new creature in Christ, is to send light into his heart and show him that he is a guilty sinner! The material creation in Genesis began with "light," and so also does the spiritual creation. God "shines into our hearts" by the work of the Holy Spirit — and then spiritual life begins (2 Corinthians 4:6).


Dim or indistinct views of sin are the origin of most of the errors, heresies and false doctrines of the present day. If a man does not realize the dangerous nature of his soul's disease — you cannot wonder if he is content with false or imperfect remedies. I believe that one of the chief needs of the contemporary church has been, and is — clearer, fuller teaching about sin.


(you can get the book free online just google it.)


It's amazing how many don't like to talk about sin as it may offend people, or maybe we don't want to be mocked or laughed at ourselves? What are your thoughts?
This is the mindset and the direction of church today!

You couldn't even pay me to continue on in this reading.

"The plain truth is, that a right understanding of SIN lies at the root of all saving Christianity." Totally false. And the majority of Christians today are going to agree with this false statement............because this kind of nonsense is what the MAJORITY teach today.


the plain truth is,that a right understanding of the SON lies at the root of all saving Christianity.

We are so well versed in our sin, that the Son is hardly known.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#8
John 16:7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The first thing the Holy Spirit convicts a man about is his sin. Until we see ourselves as sinners and that sin separates us from God we cannot appreciate the grace of God.

The greater our understanding of how offensive our sin is to God the greater our appreciation of how good Gods grace is to us.

Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#9
Really? I would think that if you wish to study holiness you would examine the life of Jesus Christ, and who He is. Not sin. Surely sin represents what not to do, and Christ represents what to do. Shall you put your eyes onto sin and be changed, or as scripture states, to behold Christ as in a mirror going from glory to glory?

People are a
ware of sin far too often at their own peril. Guilt and condemnation coming in heaps and bounds. An awareness of sin has only the power to condemn us before God. An awareness of righteousness (imputed) has the ability to transform our conduct, by the renewal of our minds. I am not saying knowing something is wrong is not beneficial, but knowing who we are in Christ is truly the remedy to victory over sin.

Has not the fruit of staring do
wn the Law revealed itself? It has no power to make us righteous, holy, and good though it may be so. It has the power to bring us to our knees in desperation seeking mercy because we all fall short of God's glory. Hence, the plan of reconciliation. For man to see his inadequacy to save himself through means of self-righteousness and see that only a righteousness that is by faith is their hope. A faith in Jesus Christ.

You
want to live holy? A righteous endeavor. The problem is that the study of sin will but condemn. It doesn't have the power to transform you, and a study of it will only breed in you self-righteousness and an effort put forth from the flesh. Lets continue in the spirit and not the flesh. Lets behold Jesus and be transformed. Lets renew our minds so that we may walk and reign in this life by His grace. Renew our minds to His truth that defines us in such a way that sin doesn't have dominion over us. That is the key. Not a study of sin, but a revelation and growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.
That's good. A self righteous person will need to be humbled by the law to see their sin and need of Christ...but a crushed hurting person has had their fill of the law and needs the sweet Gospel and to be directed to Jesus.. That's the balance I see.
 
May 22, 2014
94
1
8
#10
He who has never sinned has never lived and sins by lying. I sin everyday we all do I dont believe we consiuosly mean too we just do...those who haven't found God sin and see it as normal we do not and suffer through guilt we then seek the lord for forgiveness it is our nature its far better to seek his forgiveness for our sins than too see it as normal.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#11
He who has never sinned has never lived and sins by lying. I sin everyday we all do I dont believe we consiuosly mean too we just do...those who haven't found God sin and see it as normal we do not and suffer through guilt we then seek the lord for forgiveness it is our nature its far better to seek his forgiveness for our sins than too see it as normal.
Guilt is a sin, worry is sin, fear is sin. We consciously sin the majority of the time.

Who truly lives without a touch of guilt or worry or fear? And we KNOW they are sins.

This is why the Holy Spirit convicts us concerning sin............. of our unbelief.

We didn't sin and become sinners, we were born sinners thus we sin. We don't seek after forgiveness, we live in the truth that we are forgiven.

We can't wrap our minds around just how big our sin issue is, and Grace abounds. Grace is the ONLY way out for us. for salvation and for the Christian way of life.

We step away from Grace, even just a small step.........we live in guilt, fear and worry........sin. And the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of our guilt or fear or worry,He brings us back to the reality that Grace abounds and we are forgiven.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#12
its all people want to talk about? on the one hand you have the hyper grace movement who for some reason dont think sin is a problem for them and on the other those who are frightened to talk about it for fear of offending (non christians). The hyper grace movement especially the no Lordship movement (although hopefully dying out) have done huge damage in the church and still are.

If christians discuss it amongst themselves thats a good thing..they realise their need...I wouldnt say they are obsessed by it.. one thing any mature christian notices and that is just how sinful he is and rejoices all the more in Jesus..Its a humbling thing to see how sinful we are.
Just wanted to pick up on the 'hyper grace' thing.

I don't know what this teaching is fully. But what I do know is that Lordship salvation is not biblical either.

When someone receives Christ as their Saviour.. He is Lord and God.. but that doesn't mean instantly at salvation that every area now of the person's life is now submitted to God completely.

Eternal salvation isn't an on-going process of submitting each area to life continually.. it's a once off act on the part of the Holy Spirit in convicting someone of their sin.. who responds by trusting Him for eternal life.

Believe for eternal salvation-- is a 'change of mind, heart'.. not an ongoing continually repenting state of being. At justification it happens once and for all.

The Holy Spirit dwelling in that person's soul then 'continues to believe' in them. .. keeping them secure.

Maybe this is 'hyper grace'.. I don't know. But Lordship salvation is definitely not biblical either.

Sanctification is a seperate process... after justification. The continually repenting part comes in to this.. but the justification remains. The sanctification process determines closeness to Jesus.. but is not dependent on getting in to heaven.
 
Last edited:
Dec 5, 2015
973
12
0
#13
My thought is that you must be kidding if you think many don't like to talk about sin, it's pretty much all anyone wants to talk about. I think Satan has done a masterful job of keeping Christians obsessed with what He took care of 2000 years ago.
By "He" are you referring to Jesus? Just clarifying!


.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#14
People are a[/COLOR]ware of sin far too often at their own peril. Guilt and condemnation coming in heaps and bounds. An awareness of sin has only the power to condemn us before God. An awareness of righteousness (imputed) has the ability to transform our conduct, by the renewal of our minds. I am not saying knowing something is wrong is not beneficial, but knowing who we are in Christ is truly the remedy to victory over sin.


See this is where new.modern.hyper grace gets it wrong. Sin has no power to condemn. Those who think it does do not understand grace.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#15
Just wanted to pick up on the 'hyper grace' thing.

I don't know what this teaching is fully. But what I do know is that Lordship salvation is not biblical either.

When someone receives Christ as their Saviour.. He is Lord and God.. but that doesn't mean instantly at salvation that every area now of the person's life is now submitted to God completely.

Eternal salvation isn't an on-going process of submitting each area to life continually.. it's a once off act on the part of the Holy Spirit in convicting someone of their sin.. who responds by trusting Him for eternal life.

Believe for eternal salvation-- is a 'change of mind, heart'.. not an ongoing continually repenting state of being. At justification it happens once and for all.

The Holy Spirit dwelling in that person's soul then 'continues to believe' in them. .. keeping them secure.

Maybe this is 'hyper grace'.. I don't know. But Lordship salvation is definitely not biblical either.

Sanctification is a seperate process... after justification. The continually repenting part comes in to this.. but the justification remains. The sanctification process determines closeness to Jesus.. but is not dependent on getting in to heaven.
the hyper grace thing is.............your post. I call it TRUTH.

And honestly, I have no problem calling it hyper grace.

Religion cannot see on going sanctification for the eternally saved,Justified believer.
 
G

Gr8grace

Guest
#20
See this is where new.modern.hyper grace gets it wrong. Sin has no power to condemn. Those who think it does do not understand grace.
Ben KNOWS that sin is finished and that judgement from God because of our sin is GONE.

His point is that if we live in "sin consciousness" we will condemn ourselves and live in fear and worry and guilt. If we live in sin consciousness there is nothing but judgement, condemnation and failure in our mental attitudes. Not from God but from ourselves.

It is why believers think we can lose salvation, they are sin conscious rather than SON conscious.