How to Recognize a Mixed-Grace Gospel

[Joidevivre]

I believe that if you walk with Jesus daily, fellowship with him, study the scriptures and worship in spirit and truth, understanding of grace will just fall into place. And it doesn't do so all at once.

My understanding of grace came in layers upon layers. Still does. Now, I can't even explain it perfectly because there is a mystery about it that just goes beyond my limited frame of reference.

But what I do know is that grace is Jesus. And if I just keep holding on to him, I'm holding on to grace. I don't worry about semantics. Call it hyper, call it modern, call it old fashioned, call it what you will - but I do know it gives me a great feeling of being loved, accepted in all my faulty humanity, and sets me free to just enjoy Jesus.

All I need to know is Jesus loves me. Unconditionally. I call it grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

well said Joidevivre!....this may help to cement your thoughts on Jesus and grace.

Is Grace a Person?

People sometimes ask , “Why do you say grace is another name for Jesus?” or “Why do you say grace is a Person?”

Grace isn’t a bunch of rules for you to keep. And grace is not God’s lubricant for greasing the cogs of self effort. Grace is a Person living his life through you. Living under grace is like being married, only more so. It’s the adventure of life shared with Christ. (p.2)

Of course, I am not the only one who says grace is a Person.

Many others have, including Joseph Prince:
Grace is not a theology. It is not a subject matter. It is not a doctrine. It is a person, and his name is Jesus. That’s the reason the Lord wants you to receive the abundance of grace, for to have the abundance of grace is to have the abundance of Jesus. (Destined to Reign, p.24)

Prince says that the law is impersonal and was given (suggesting an arms-length transaction), while grace is personal and came when Jesus came (John 1:17). That sounds good to me, but some people find this weird.

“You make it sound like there’s a fourth member of the Trinity called Grace.”

We’re simply saying that God gives us his grace through his Son. Jesus came full of grace from the One who sits on the throne of grace. He is the personification of the Father’s grace. No Jesus, no grace. Know Jesus, know grace.

“But isn’t it weird to say grace has a personality?”

Maybe, but it’s not without Biblical basis. In Romans Paul describes sin as having a personality. He says sin is a noun (not a verb) characterized by desires and an agenda. In fact, everything the Bible says about sin is true of Satan. Both sin and Satan seek to devour us (Gen 4:7, 1 Pet 5:8) and kill us (Rom 7:11, John 8:44), and both have been defeated by Jesus (Heb 9:26, John 12:31).

Just as sin is synonymous with Satan, grace is synonymous with Jesus. Here are eighteen reasons why.

Why is grace another name for Jesus?

1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24 2 Th 1:8).
2. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).
3. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).
4. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).
5. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).
6. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).
7. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).
8. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).
9. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).
10. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).
11. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).
12. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).
13. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).
14. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.
15. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).
16. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).
17. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)
18. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

.
This belief that grace is a person is inline with gnostic belief. They believed that grace was something they possessed through an indescribable union with grace, rather than it being GOD's expression of love to sinful beings.

Against Heresies

For [the gnostics] declare that we [of the church] simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them.​

The bible nowhere says that Christ is grace, but that grace came through him.

well said Joidevivre!....this may help to cement your thoughts on Jesus and grace.

Is Grace a Person?

People sometimes ask , “Why do you say grace is another name for Jesus?” or “Why do you say grace is a Person?”

Grace isn’t a bunch of rules for you to keep. And grace is not God’s lubricant for greasing the cogs of self effort. Grace is a Person living his life through you. Living under grace is like being married, only more so. It’s the adventure of life shared with Christ. (p.2)

Of course, I am not the only one who says grace is a Person.

Many others have, including Joseph Prince:
Grace is not a theology. It is not a subject matter. It is not a doctrine. It is a person, and his name is Jesus. That’s the reason the Lord wants you to receive the abundance of grace, for to have the abundance of grace is to have the abundance of Jesus. (Destined to Reign, p.24)

Prince says that the law is impersonal and was given (suggesting an arms-length transaction), while grace is personal and came when Jesus came (John 1:17). That sounds good to me, but some people find this weird.

“You make it sound like there’s a fourth member of the Trinity called Grace.”

We’re simply saying that God gives us his grace through his Son. Jesus came full of grace from the One who sits on the throne of grace. He is the personification of the Father’s grace. No Jesus, no grace. Know Jesus, know grace.

“But isn’t it weird to say grace has a personality?”

Maybe, but it’s not without Biblical basis. In Romans Paul describes sin as having a personality. He says sin is a noun (not a verb) characterized by desires and an agenda. In fact, everything the Bible says about sin is true of Satan. Both sin and Satan seek to devour us (Gen 4:7, 1 Pet 5:8) and kill us (Rom 7:11, John 8:44), and both have been defeated by Jesus (Heb 9:26, John 12:31).

Just as sin is synonymous with Satan, grace is synonymous with Jesus. Here are eighteen reasons why.

Why is grace another name for Jesus?

1. The gospel of grace is the gospel of Jesus (Acts 20:24 2 Th 1:8).
2. We are saved by grace (Eph 2:5); we are saved by Jesus (2 Tim 1:9).
3. We are justified by grace (Rom 3:24); we are justified by Jesus (Rom 4:25).
4. Grace helps us; Jesus helps us (Heb 4:16).
5. God’s grace offers salvation to all (Tit 2:11); Jesus is the Savior of all (1 Tim 4:10).
6. God is love and love that stoops (or comes down) is grace; Jesus is the Father’s love come down (John 16:28).
7. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ (Rom 8:9) and the Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29).
8. All the blessings of God come to us by grace alone and all of them are found in Jesus (Eph 1:3).
9. Grace is a teacher (Tit 2:12); Jesus is a teacher (Matt 8:19).
10. Grace reigns (Rom 5:21); Jesus reigns (1 Cor 15:25).
11. When the Galatians cut themselves off from Christ, they cut themselves off from grace (Gal 5:4).
12. In the same way that God is love, Jesus is grace (see 2 Cor 13:14).
13. The Bible speaks of “the love of God” and “the grace of Jesus” ( 1Cor 16:23, Rev 22:21).
14. God’s grace is given in Christ Jesus” (1 Cor 1:4, Eph 1:6, 2 Tim 1:9, 2:1). Jesus is the embodiment of God’s grace.
15. Here are two Biblical blessings that say the same thing: “The Lord be with you” and “grace be with you” (2 Tim 4:22, Phm 1:25).
16. The Old Testament prophets foretold the coming of Jesus and the coming of grace (1 Pet 1:10). These weren’t two separate events. Grace came when Jesus came (John 1:17).
17. To the degree that we know Jesus, we enjoy God’s grace (2 Pet 1:2)
18. Jesus is the word of God and the word of his grace which can build you up (Act 20:32)

 

[PeterJens]

Here is my view on the gospel focus list

The Gospel We can have communion with God through Christ
Key words Walking with Jesus in obedience to His commands
The preacher Waters the word with encouragement and direction
Salvation is Accepting Jesus died for me, and walking in death to self, and glory to Jesus
Faith is Listening to Jesus as he guides my steps
Repentance is Acknowledging sin, commiting to stopping the behaviour and working out a path to righteousness
Confession is Admiting ones sin, so healing can begin and the need for changed behaviour started
Obedience is Following Jesus, His commands, and His footsteps
Sanctification is Being changed within by the work of the Holy Spirit from one state of glory to the next
Be holy because We are a chosen people, Christs body on earth
The law Identifies boundaries and shows us mans failures
Sacrifice is Is Christs death for us, and likewise we should give our lives for others
Gods love is Unending, to work his righteousness out through His people
The Holy Spirit Conviction Points us to Gods heart
Eternal security hinges on The cross
I am first and foremost A loved child of God
How to overcome sin To walk in the Spirit
More gets done when I Dwell in Jesus
This message makes me Love God into eternity

I am sure we all have our own summaries and mine if expanded would include more, but I wanted to put this up as the polarised view put out by hyper grace is a stupid straw man which does not reflect real faith.

 

[PeterJens]

But God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ (Gal 6.14)

It is an interesting dilemma in language. Why do you think the cross is so important? Because it demonstrates Gods nature, proof of His intent, an eternal statement of a promise, a reality of victory, the end of rebellion, the beginning of life for the believer. God has not changed, it is a revelation of what has always been there.

Abraham knew this heart, Moses knew this heart, Elijah knew this heart. Each layer reveals something more and something significant. The mistake is to take what went before the cross as overthrown rather than built upon and finished.

The law still applies but is empowered by love in the heart of the Children of Heaven. Why does a musician practice day after day their instrument? Because they love producing the music that comes at the end.

Why do the people of the Kingdom walk in righteousness, because they know it is the light of life. For Israel, they were born into the nation and it was their obligation and duty, linked with promises. They did not choose it but were given it.

We are born into the Kingdom by faith in Jesus. We are therefore the true heirs of the promise, grafted in to His holy nation.

So though I boast in Christ alone and Him crucified all the above flows into the reality as well.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Here is my view on the gospel focus list

The Gospel We can have communion with God through Christ
Key words Walking with Jesus in obedience to His commands
The preacher Waters the word with encouragement and direction
Salvation is Accepting Jesus died for me, and walking in death to self, and glory to Jesus
Faith is Listening to Jesus as he guides my steps
Repentance is Acknowledging sin, commiting to stopping the behaviour and working out a path to righteousness
Confession is Admiting ones sin, so healing can begin and the need for changed behaviour started
Obedience is Following Jesus, His commands, and His footsteps
Sanctification is Being changed within by the work of the Holy Spirit from one state of glory to the next
Be holy because We are a chosen people, Christs body on earth
The law Identifies boundaries and shows us mans failures
Sacrifice is Is Christs death for us, and likewise we should give our lives for others
Gods love is Unending, to work his righteousness out through His people
The Holy Spirit Conviction Points us to Gods heart
Eternal security hinges on The cross
I am first and foremost A loved child of God
How to overcome sin To walk in the Spirit
More gets done when I Dwell in Jesus
This message makes me Love God into eternity

I am sure we all have our own summaries and mine if expanded would include more, but I wanted to put this up as the polarised view put out by hyper grace is a stupid straw man which does not reflect real faith.

Thats all very interesting I am sure, but, you have not answered the question of the day.....Do you deny that Christians are spiritually united with God??

 

[Joidevivre]

We say Jesus is my strength. Jesus is my healing. Jesus is my salvation. Jesus is my rock. Jesus is my foundation. Jesus is my savior. Jesus is my God. Jesus is my wisdom. Jesus is my peace. Why not Jesus is my grace?

It is only through His name that we have grace and all the benefits of God's blessings.

 

[PeterJens]

Thats all very interesting I am sure, but, you have not answered the question of the day.....Do you deny that Christians are spiritually united with God??

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
2 Peter 1:3-4

Through our knowledge of Jesus and his promises we participate in the divine nature. The knowledge we have means we participate in the divine nature. Or another way of reading this, is we have the heart of God. It is like if you know what someone is about to say before they say it, you are one in your thoughts.

Jesus said He and the Father were one, if you saw one and knew them you knew the other.

I was witnessing to unbelievers and one believer would say one thing and I another. The recipients said we were the same person, when in reality we were strangers just following the same God. It is also like that here, though obviously not with some of you which is a little disappointing. That is the communion I believe in with Jesus and with the brethren here.

 

[Grandpa]

We say Jesus is my strength. Jesus is my healing. Jesus is my salvation. Jesus is my rock. Jesus is my foundation. Jesus is my savior. Jesus is my God. Jesus is my wisdom. Jesus is my peace. Why not Jesus is my grace?

It is only through His name that we have grace and all the benefits of God's blessings.

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

 

[FreeNChrist]

We say Jesus is my strength. Jesus is my healing. Jesus is my salvation. Jesus is my rock. Jesus is my foundation. Jesus is my savior. Jesus is my God. Jesus is my wisdom. Jesus is my peace. Why not Jesus is my grace?

It is only through His name that we have grace and all the benefits of God's blessings.

Exactly. As if His grace is something that can be separate from Himself. As if it is just some "benefit" separate or detached from His Being and activity. Grace IS the risen and living Lord Jesus functioning in and through Christian people.

 

[PeterJens]

We say Jesus is my strength. Jesus is my healing. Jesus is my salvation. Jesus is my rock. Jesus is my foundation. Jesus is my savior. Jesus is my God. Jesus is my wisdom. Jesus is my peace. Why not Jesus is my grace?
It is only through His name that we have grace and all the benefits of God's blessings.

"Jesus is my grace" does not have a biblical meaning only a personal one. That is why it is not used, because no one would understand quite what you meant.

 

[FreeNChrist]

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
2 Peter 1:3-4

Through our knowledge of Jesus and his promises we participate in the divine nature. The knowledge we have means we participate in the divine nature. Or another way of reading this, is we have the heart of God. It is like if you know what someone is about to say before they say it, you are one in your thoughts.

Jesus said He and the Father were one, if you saw one and knew them you knew the other.

I was witnessing to unbelievers and one believer would say one thing and I another. The recipients said we were the same person, when in reality we were strangers just following the same God. It is also like that here, though obviously not with some of you which is a little disappointing. That is the communion I believe in with Jesus and with the brethren here.

Its a simple yes or no answer. Do you deny that Christians are spiritually united with God?

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen..it's like saying Jesus is love...

Exactly. As if His grace is something that can be separate from Himself. As if it is just some "benefit" separate or detached from His Being and activity. Grace IS the risen and living Lord Jesus functioning in and through Christian people.

 

[PeterJens]

Its a simple yes or no answer. Do you deny that Christians are spiritually united with God?

Are you God? Am I speaking to the Father and you have become one with the trinity in some mystical way?

Look at scripture. "spiritually united" is not a biblical concept. Where did you get it from?
Paul describes us as being united with God, so we should not be unequally yoked to an unbeliever in marriage.

So, yes, I am very much united with God through Jesus. Anything else is your invention.

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Ephesians 2:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

John 14:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

 

[PeterJens]

Its a simple yes or no answer. Do you deny that Christians are spiritually united with God?

I have a thought,
Is your construct, God gives us a new heavenly heart, which He implants in us and we then walk in.
In this idea we a spiritually born from on high with a new heart pure, holy, cannot sin, with perfect communion with the Lord, spiritually united with God.

No I do not believe in this model.
Yes faith is born from on high, through spiritual new birth, but this is not a perfect heart etc as you are picturing it.
And can this life be extinguished? According to the seed and the sower parable, yes.

In your language it never really happened then, it was just fake.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Are you God? Am I speaking to the Father and you have become one with the trinity in some mystical way?

Look at scripture. "spiritually united" is not a biblical concept. Where did you get it from?
Paul describes us as being united with God, so we should not be unequally yoked to an unbeliever in marriage.

So, yes, I am very much united with God through Jesus. Anything else is your invention.

Christians have become one with God not in essence, but relationally, through the indwelling Spirit of Christ. Do you have the Spirit of Christ?

 

[PeterJens]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.

Ephesians 2:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

John 14:19-20 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

This makes me laugh. Paul is saying we have spiritual communion with the Lord with the indwelling Holy Spirit. He talks about us being a temple, but extending this to say we are one spiritually united is just insane.

My thoughts are not Gods thoughts or His mine. If at the point of gaining faith we had this mystical union there would be no need of sanctification or even knowledge. Think about Jesus. Even He was one with the Father on an attitude scale or heart scale, but the Father knew things Jesus did not.

I notice you fall for metaphors all the time and take them too far. If you are one with God, why do you have a problem with perfection, the law, the flesh and sin? That is why mysticism is at this level is just stupid but you want to play that game.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"But whoever is united with the Lord is one with Him in spirit." 1 Cor 6:17

 

[Grace777x70]

If you are not joined to the Lord by His Spirit...you do not belong to Him....if you are not a new creation in Christ you are not one with Him....I know all this is hard to understand with the natural mind..it's made that way on purpose......

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you,though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

This makes me laugh. Paul is saying we have spiritual communion with the Lord with the indwelling Holy Spirit. He talks about us being a temple, but extending this to say we are one spiritually united is just insane.

My thoughts are not Gods thoughts or His mine. If at the point of gaining faith we had this mystical union there would be no need of sanctification or even knowledge. Think about Jesus. Even He was one with the Father on an attitude scale or heart scale, but the Father knew things Jesus did not.

I notice you fall for metaphors all the time and take them too far. If you are one with God, why do you have a problem with perfection, the law, the flesh and sin? That is why mysticism is at this level is just stupid but you want to play that game.