Three Days and Three Nights

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rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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valiant,
re: "But Scripture many times speaks of the resurrection as on the third day."

Scripture all so says 'after three days', so "on the third day" can be referring to the third day after the day of the event.



re: " So yes I go for the day of preparation (Friday)."

One verse says that it was the preparation of the Passover which can fall on any day of the week.
 



re: "And I think Matt 12.40 used idiomatic language. See Esther 4.16 with 5.1."

The phrase "three days, night or day" is not necessarily the same as "three days and three nights". But even if it is the same, there is nothing in the account that precludes at least a portion of three daytimes and at least a portion of three night times.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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Angela53510,
re: "Marc knows Hebrew and the Jewish traditions since his boyhood. Part of a day is a day!"

But when was no part of a day considered a day?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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valiant,
re: "The Jews never observed two Sabbaths in succession/"


Where does scripture say that an annual festival sabbath which fell on a sixth day of the week was not observed?
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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And remember, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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And remember, the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. There are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern was used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any.
Sorry I have to say it, but that is garbage.

Jesus said He (His body) would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights, and NO ONE can change that!

Matt 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
KJV
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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DP,
re: "...that is garbage."


What specifically is "garbage"?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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DP,
re: "...that is garbage."


What specifically is "garbage"?
This specifically... is garbage:

However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
42
28
DP,
re: "This specifically... is garbage: However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights."

OK, thanks. And that is why I started this thread - to get those who make the assertion to provide examples to back up their assertion.
 
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DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
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DP,
re: "This specifically... is garbage: However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language such as the Messiah saying that He would be in the heart of the earth for 3 nights when He knew that it would only be for 2 nights."

OK, thanks. And that is why I started this thread - to get those who make the assertion to provide examples to back up their assertion.
Which I did provide a Scripture to show that idea of 2 nights is not Biblical.
 

rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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DP,
re: "Which I did provide a Scripture to show that idea of 2 nights is not Biblical."

 
You know that and I know that, but that is not what I'm asking.
 
Jan 15, 2011
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Or.... regardless of what day of the week it's on, Christ died on Passover (14 Nisan) and rose three days and three nights later. So... count from the Hebrew Calendar no matter what day of the week 14 Nisan is on and go with that. There just happened to be a weekly Sabbath around that time. It doesn't change when He died.
 
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rstrats

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
727
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NarrowRoadDisciple,
re: "There just happened to be a weekly Sabbath around that time."

As there was every 7th day of the week both then and now.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
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Or.... regardless of what day of the week it's on, Christ died on Passover (14 Nisan) and rose three days and three nights later. So... count from the Hebrew Calendar no matter what day of the week 14 Nisan is on and go with that. There just happened to be a weekly Sabbath around that time. It doesn't change when He died.
Right, no way to change that He said three days and three nights, and that must be by Hebrew reckoning of the start of the day because that's what they used back then.
 
S

sparkman

Guest
This whole argument is a bogus one that has been perpetuated in the last 200 years, primarily by Sabbathkeepers who want to label the rest of Christianity as false, and to bolster up support for their observance of Saturday.

Read the book Three Days and Three Nights by Ralph Woodrow. He taught the same view that Sabbathkeepers teach; that Christ died on Wednesday afternoon and rose on Saturday afternoon. He recanted his position after careful examination of the facts.

Christ died on the Preparation Day. Preparation day is a direct reference to Friday. It is never used in reference to an annual festival. He was in the grave Friday, Saturday, and Sunday until morning.

Those who claim that Wednesday was a preparation day for Thursday, which was the first day of Unleavened Bread, are in error. The Israelites were allowed to prepare their food on the first day of unleavened bread. Read Exodus 12:16. The "preparation day" referred to food preparation. If anyone can find any incident where a preparation day was referring to anything else, I'd like to see it. If they can find any incident where a preparation day was observed prior to a festival, and not the weekly Sabbath, I'd like to see it.

In fact, you can find very few references to any festival day being called a Sabbath even in the OLD TESTAMENT.

Christ was crucified on Friday. The following day was the first day of Unleavened Bread, and it was ALSO the weekly Sabbath. He was resurrected on Sunday, sometime before Sunday morning.

There is a Hebrew idiomatic phrase in which "in three days" refers to the day after tomorrow, and it is perfectly consistent with what Christ said.

The only real "problem" verse is Matthew 12:40. The other 20 verses in this regard are in perfect alignment with the idiomatic phrase.

By the way, the word in John 19:31 for Sabbath is sabbaton, and it is UNDENIABLE that it has a weekly context. In fact, sabbaton is translated "week" in other contexts. So, it was talking about Saturday, the weekly Sabbath.

See this word study:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4521&t=KJV


John 19:31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.

In addition, church history since the first century made references to the details in regards to this.

So, the question is, do you base your doctrine on one single verse and your understanding of it, or the preponderance of the evidence, and church history? If you're a Sabbathkeeper or person who wants to cast rocks at orthodox Christianity, you're going to select the first option. You have a vested interest in discrediting orthodox Christianity. It fits your conspiracy theory views.

For those who are open-minded I'd suggest reading Ralph Woodrow's book "Three Days & Three Nights". He held the same views on this topic, and changed his mind after studying it in more depth. This book explains the problems with the Wednesday - Saturday view very well.

There are cults who use this topic to discredit the rest of Christianity. Some Hebrew Roots and Messianic Jews and Armstrongites (Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, United Church of God, and tons of other Churches of God) are part of those. Don't fall for their foolishness. They, like many other rogue Christians, think that they were placed here on earth to straighten out the rest of Christianity. Their arguments are full of logical problems which can be refuted.
 
Y

yoninah

Guest
Christ died on the Preparation Day. Preparation day is a direct reference to Friday. It is never used in reference to an annual festival. He was in the grave Friday, Saturday, and Sunday until morning.
I've not been following this discussion (although I did chip in at one point) but the phrase 'Day Of Preparation' is a title that is given to each and every Friday to denote the day on which preparation is made for the sabbath (Mark 15:42, John 19:14, 19:31 and 19:42). The phrase 'The Day Of Preparation of Passover' means 'The Friday that falls within the seven day Passover Festival' (as Passover could also be referred to as a 7 day festival contra Lev 23).

The right word to denote the day before a festival would be the Greek from which we'd get 'eve'. That said, it's difficult to understand why anyone would undermine the statements of Scripture that place the 'Day Of Preparation' as being the day on which Christ suffered, died and was buried.

Surely Scripture is meant to change our beliefs - and not the other way round?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
I've not been following this discussion (although I did chip in at one point) but the phrase 'Day Of Preparation' is a title that is given to each and every Friday to denote the day on which preparation is made for the sabbath (Mark 15:42, John 19:14, 19:31 and 19:42). The phrase 'The Day Of Preparation of Passover' means 'The Friday that falls within the seven day Passover Festival' (as Passover could also be referred to as a 7 day festival contra Lev 23).

The right word to denote the day before a festival would be the Greek from which we'd get 'eve'. That said, it's difficult to understand why anyone would undermine the statements of Scripture that place the 'Day Of Preparation' as being the day on which Christ suffered, died and was buried.

Surely Scripture is meant to change our beliefs - and not the other way round?
You are right about the 'day of preparation' phrase, but you are not right about it only being for the day prior to the start of the regular weekly sabbath.

John 19:31
31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
KJV

You're missing how that Scripture tells us the sabbath that was getting ready to begin at sundown was a "high day" per the passover reckoning (Lev.23). That high day meant a holy convocation, a high sabbath, and not the regular weekly sabbath of Friday.

That "high day" would begin at sundown and was the start of Thursday.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
3,325
41
0
So, the question is, do you base your doctrine on one single verse and your understanding of it, or the preponderance of the evidence, and church history? If you're a Sabbathkeeper or person who wants to cast rocks at orthodox Christianity, you're going to select the first option. You have a vested interest in discrediting orthodox Christianity. It fits your conspiracy theory views.

For those who are open-minded I'd suggest reading Ralph Woodrow's book "Three Days & Three Nights". He held the same views on this topic, and changed his mind after studying it in more depth. This book explains the problems with the Wednesday - Saturday view very well.

There are cults who use this topic to discredit the rest of Christianity. Some Hebrew Roots and Messianic Jews and Armstrongites (Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, United Church of God, and tons of other Churches of God) are part of those. Don't fall for their foolishness. They, like many other rogue Christians, think that they were placed here on earth to straighten out the rest of Christianity. Their arguments are full of logical problems which can be refuted.
Those words you will dearly pay for one day when you finally discover that you're only following a man-made tradition regarding the passover reckoning.

I'm a Protestant Christian, I'm not Jewish, yet I know how they reckoned the passover timing and its high day sabbath that God commanded them here:

Lev 23:3
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
KJV

Lev 23:5-7
5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
KJV
 
S

sparkman

Guest
I've not been following this discussion (although I did chip in at one point) but the phrase 'Day Of Preparation' is a title that is given to each and every Friday to denote the day on which preparation is made for the sabbath (Mark 15:42, John 19:14, 19:31 and 19:42). The phrase 'The Day Of Preparation of Passover' means 'The Friday that falls within the seven day Passover Festival' (as Passover could also be referred to as a 7 day festival contra Lev 23).

The right word to denote the day before a festival would be the Greek from which we'd get 'eve'. That said, it's difficult to understand why anyone would undermine the statements of Scripture that place the 'Day Of Preparation' as being the day on which Christ suffered, died and was buried.

Surely Scripture is meant to change our beliefs - and not the other way round?
Where does the Bible use this phrase "Day of Preparation of Passover"? Maybe I'm not following the point.

The preparation day refers to the day that the Israelites prepared food for the weekly Sabbath. Like I mentioned, this doesn't apply to the First Day of Unleavened Bread per Exodus 12:16. They could prepare food on this day. They weren't allowed to do "servile labor" but they could prepare food. There was no preparation day for the first day of Unleavened Bread.

The contention of those who hold the Wednesday-Saturday view is that Thursday was the first day of Unleavened Bread, therefore the Preparation Day (for the first day of Unleavened Bread) was Wednesday. There was no preparation for the first day of Unleavened Bread, because food didn't need to be prepared. My contention is that the preparation day refers only to the weekly Sabbath and not to festivals. This is especially apparent because Exodus 12:16 says that food could be prepared by the Israelites on the first day of unleavened bread.


Their whole argument rests on Matthew 12:40 and their insistence that Christ needed to be in the grave 72 hours in order to prove his Messiahship. I'm not trapped by that paradigm. I know Christ was resurrected regardless of the precise number of hours. I understand the idiomatic nature of the phrase.

The traditional view is correct. Christ was crucified on Friday. Saturday was a weekly Sabbath and was also the first day of unleavened bread. He arose on Sunday. The traditional view in regards to Good Friday - Resurrection Sunday is consistent with Scripture, considering that the idiomatic use of the "third day" implies the day after tomorrow.

All my church does on Easter is preach a solid message on salvation anyways. It's a great day to bring people to services.
 
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coby

Guest
Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a "discussion" with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase "x" days and "x"nights was ever used in the first century or before when it didn’t include at least parts of the "x" days and at least parts of the "x" nights?
I don't remember where I read it but first it was Pascha on thursday and then weekend so it was 3 days and three nights since the other text says Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the whale and Jesus in the heart of the earth.
Lol oh the poster above me knows it. I should read first.