BOAST IN GOD’S GRACE FOR YOU

[Grace777x70]

Amen!...there will come a day that those that are not redeemed by the blood of Jesus will be in the presence of God and His love will be manifested on the sin that is in those people that refuse Christ's sacrifice for them. God's wrath is really a manifestation of His love in action.

The presence of God will be a delight to us believers because we are bathed in His love without any sin attached to us....as He is love.....His love will be there too when those that refuse Christ.....only to them..it will be wrath on the sin because of His presence. Wrath is a manifestation of His true nature which is love......anything that is destructive to us..He hates because of His love.

God is a righteous and just God, so indeed He would hate wickedness. One might think that jealousy is sinful, yet we find it to be an attribute of God, in scripture, to those He loves. He is jealous for you. Indeed, God does have wrath and He poured it out on Jesus on behalf of humanity. This isn't Universalism but propitiation. The world shall be judged on one deciding factor, "Is Jesus your Lord and Savior?" It is belief that shall determine judgement.

Crossnote, if you are arguing that God is a God of wrath I think your determination of this is skewed by the fact God was under a covenant where He blessed for obedience and cursed for disobedience. In Christ, under the new covenant, we are freed from the curses of the law. God doesn't curse us. In scripture it says all the promises of God in Christ are "yes" and "amen."

The word of God also says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of an angry God, indeed God has righteous anger. This is not disputed, a righteous individual does hate evil. This is a good thing, that God has wrath and anger towards injustice and evil. However such attributes are not directed towards believers, for we have an Advocate with the Father and Jesus took God's wrath upon the cross of Calvary.

So, what is the disagreement here? Is it to say that God is a "God of wrath?" Indeed, if actions define an entity then such could be said, but do not neglect His love and mercy. His wrath is justified, yet it does not tarnish His character. It is a righteous anger, justly do. Yet He chose grace, mercy and love through Jesus Christ towards humanity. Keep that in mind.

 

[Magenta]

God is a righteous and just God, so indeed He would hate wickedness. One might think that jealousy is sinful, yet we find it to be an attribute of God, in scripture, to those He loves. He is jealous for you.

Zealous is more etymologically correct.

Word Origin and History for jealous
adj.c.1200, gelus, later jelus (early 14c.), "possessive and suspicious," originallyin the context of sexuality or romance; in general use late 14c.; also in amore positive sense, "fond, amorous, ardent," from c.1300, from OldFrench jalos "keen, zealous; avaricious; jealous" (12c., Modern French jaloux), from Late Latin zelosus, from zelus "zeal," from Greek zelos, sometimes "jealousy," but more often in a good sense ("emulation, rivalry, zeal"). See zeal. In biblical language (early 13c.) "tolerating no unfaithfulness."

source

 

[Grace777x70]

There is no scripture that says "God is wrath"...it only says "God is love"

1 John 4:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

 

[BenFTW]

I think the hesitation arises to define God as a "God of Wrath" because of His great love. God is Love, and in most cases people do not see wrath on the side of such a positive. Yes, God is a God of Wrath but that wrath isn't contrary to His love. Jesus is the Prince of Peace, for example, and yet He has righteous anger. God is not a God of Wrath towards His children, and to think, even towards humanity He chose to bestow grace. His wrath seems to be kindled by His love. He isn't angry without cause, it is His righteousness that beckons that wrath and His desire towards all that is pure, holy, and good to remain.

 

[crossnote]

So, God is hate now ?..God is condemn?....the scriptures say that God is love....not that He has love...any wrath or justice that comes to people will be a manifestation of His love..as He is love..

...wow...are you ever going to be pleasantly surprised when you meet your Father in heaven!...you have some wonderful revelations coming to you my brother!

What He hates is a manifestation of His love in action. You are really going to have a wonderful experience when you meet your Lord and Father!

Do you actually think God hates people?...what does John 3:16 mean?..God so loved the world.....show me where Jesus hated people?...He certainly didn't go along with the self-righteous religious Phariseees...but show me where it says that He hated them...

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

There is no scripture that says "God is wrath"...it only says "God is love"

1 John 4:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Do you believe God acts contrary to His nature? When He acts in wrath against his enemies is He not acting according to His nature?
Fine. You answered my question and that is why I say you have a feminized/syruppy view of God.

(Done with this thread)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is no scripture that says "God is wrath"...it only says "God is love"

1 John 4:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Explain the flood. The mass killing of all the cananites. Jews, Babylonian, Mesdes and persions, Greeks and romans.. And the end times wrath of God..

God is a God of love to those who are his.. But to evil, and the things of this world. he is a god of wrath.. He is not going to force people to take his love, and he is patient today willing that no one should perish. But there will be a day this earth feels the wrath of God.

ex 22: [SUP]22 [/SUP]“You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry; [SUP]24 [/SUP]and My wrath will become hot, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

1 Samuel 28:18
Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.

Jeremiah 10:10
But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.

Ezekiel 7:19
‘They will throw their silver into the streets, And their gold will be like refuse; Their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them In the day of the wrath of the Lord; They will not satisfy their souls, Nor fill their stomachs, Because it became their stumbling block of iniquity.

Just a few, so many many more.

 

[KennethC]

I don't think anyone is putting forth Universalism, that is just being used to discredit people maliciously.

I keep hearing this term Universalism being brought up, especially that of in the threads about Catholic and what they teach.

Most of the time it is misused those, because the term catholic which held to universalism in its definition simply meant that anybody no matter what background or race they are can become believers in Christ !!!

It was never tossed around and applied as it is now days !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I keep hearing this term Universalism being brought up, especially that of in the threads about Catholic and what they teach.

Most of the time it is misused those, because the term catholic which held to universalism in its definition simply meant that anybody no matter what background or race they are can become believers in Christ !!!

It was never tossed around and applied as it is now days !!!

That is not what it means when most people say it.

When they say it, it means everyone will get to heaven,, no matter what.. All religions lead to God

 

[Grace777x70]

If I say that God is love and that is "feminized" because of His grace in Christ..then ok....it will have to remain like that in your eyes...

Now...what about that God hates people we were dealing with earlier in the thread..you never did answer that......I have asked you about 7 times in this thread to show me the scripture where Jesus hates people........Keep in mind the below truth from the Word of Christ sent here on earth to reveal the Father to us.

Do you actually think God hates people?...what does John 3:16 mean?..God so loved the world.....show me where Jesus hated people?...He certainly didn't go along with the self-righteous religious Phariseees...but show me where it says that He hated them...

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


Show me the scripture where Jesus hates people as He has showed His life while on this earth and He revealed the true nature of the Father.

Do you believe God acts contrary to His nature? When He acts in wrath against his enemies is He not acting according to His nature?
Fine. You answered my question and that is why I say you have a feminized/syruppy view of God.

 

[BenFTW]

That is not what it means when most people say it.

When they say it, it means everyone will get to heaven,, no matter what.. All religions lead to God

Peter Jens or w/e, keeps attributing that belief to the Gospel of Grace and it is inaccurate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If I say that God is love and that is "feminized" because of His grace in Christ..then ok....it will have to remain like that in your eyes...

Now...what about that God hates people we were dealing with earlier in the thread..you never did answer that......I have asked you about 7 times in this thread to show me the scripture where Jesus hates people........Keep in mind the below truth from the Word of Christ

Do you actually think God hates people?...what does John 3:16 mean?..God so loved the world.....show me where Jesus hated people?...He certainly didn't go along with the self-righteous religious Phariseees...but show me where it says that He hated them...

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

So, whatever understanding of God we get from the Old Covenant that doesn't line up with Jesus' manifestation of the Father will be inaccurate.

Hebrews 1:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,


Show me the scripture where Jesus hates people as He has showed His life while on this earth and He revealed the true nature of the Father.

There is a difference between saying God hates people. and saying God will pour his wrath n people..

I did not see Crossnote use the word love or hate, he used the word wrath.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus is the exact representation of the Father. Jesus said no one knows my Father.

No, He said something entirely opposite to what you have said here.

No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father
except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, He said something entirely opposite to what you have said here.

No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father
except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

Yes, he said if you know me, you know my father,, For I represent my father.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Do you believe God acts contrary to His nature? When He acts in wrath against his enemies is He not acting according to His nature?
Fine. You answered my question and that is why I say you have a feminized/syruppy view of God.

(Done with this thread)

I know exactly what you're trying to say, Crossnote, though saw this thread and right away didn't want to get into it, as I'm not sure there aren't those misspeaking, but with good intent. (I would hope it's not salvation, televangelist hootenanny style they're espousing.) But somebody said there would be no Christ without grace, and this, of course, isn't in the ballpark of literal truth. The Lord could burn up the entire world, hurl it out into the void, by just rights, and there would still be the Lord, there would still be God. The Lord Jesus willfully laid down His life, grace by faith our good fortune, at His expense, but that grace only one attribute of Almighty God who is expansive, also of justice and wrath not to be danced around by easy believism, grace in scripture, in no way, a "get out of hell free" card, touch the television for Billy Graham, then drinks around the bar. A big helping of grace, without repentance, will never lead to receiving the Holy Spirit. God knows our hearts and minds. God is love, but God is Holy, His love not some winking, soft touch, no Santa Claus, does not save those unrepentant, who don't even agree with Him in the matter of their sin, the world, the flesh and the devil. God is to be much feared, by anybody who thinks His grace comes cheap, and He is to be feared, respected as Holy and Almighty, humbly so by the saved.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yes, wasn't it nobody has seen the Father, but the Son who is in His bosom? This remains true, to this day.

 

[JesusIsAll]

There is no scripture that says "God is wrath"...it only says "God is love"

1 John 4:16-19 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

But, Grace777, was the Lord just having a bad hair day in Matthew 23? I don't see the Lord in scripture singing Kumbaya with everybody, do you?

 

[Grace777x70]

I did not say that God did not ever manifest wrath and anger because He did...and He will again on the sin in those that are disobedient to obey the gospel.....what I said was..there is no scripture that says God is wrath...but only that God is love...and my belief if you happen to read the thread is that His wrath is a manifestation of His love..not that He will not manifest wrath....

Explain the flood. The mass killing of all the cananites. Jews, Babylonian, Mesdes and persions, Greeks and romans.. And the end times wrath of God..

God is a God of love to those who are his.. But to evil, and the things of this world. he is a god of wrath.. He is not going to force people to take his love, and he is patient today willing that no one should perish. But there will be a day this earth feels the wrath of God.

ex 22: [SUP]22 [/SUP]“You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. [SUP]23 [/SUP]If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry; [SUP]24 [/SUP]and My wrath will become hot, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

1 Samuel 28:18
Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day.

Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the Lord comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.

Jeremiah 10:10
But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.

Ezekiel 7:19
‘They will throw their silver into the streets, And their gold will be like refuse; Their silver and their gold will not be able to deliver them In the day of the wrath of the Lord; They will not satisfy their souls, Nor fill their stomachs, Because it became their stumbling block of iniquity.

Just a few, so many many more.

 

[Grace777x70]

Go look at the start of the thread and you will see exactly what he said....read the thread all the way through and you will see what happened...and I agree 100% and I said that earlier in the post that God will have wrath on the sin in those that refuse Jesus....but He doesn't hate people...thank God!

There is a difference between saying God hates people. and saying God will pour his wrath n people..

I did not see Crossnote use the word love or hate, he used the word wrath.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I did not say that God did not ever manifest wrath and anger because He did...and He will again on the sin in those that are disobedient to obey the gospel.....what I said was..there is no scripture that says God is wrath...but only that God is love...and my belief if you happen to read the thread is that His wrath is a manifestation of His love..not that He will not manifest wrath....

I'm not saying anything, just trying to understand what people are saying here. You aren't saying God can't hate, are you? Or are you? Again, not saying anything, as I know I can't speak for the inner workings of the heart of God! On the other hand, scripture says he hates certain things, that He can hate. That God is love is not saying that He is ONLY love, to me, but that His way is of love, what He would have of us, don't see these three words can be stretched into an all encompassing doctrine that God can't hate.

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree...and there is no such thing as "free grace" because grace is not free and it has to be received in order to activate it..and that comes from hearing the word of Christ..romans 10:17...if people are saying they are in grace while deliberately living contrary to wanting the life of Christ and to want to grow in Him....they are not under grace..no matter if they use the word grace or not..that is not real grace...as grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and to live uprightly in this world.

I know exactly what you're trying to say, Crossnote, though saw this thread and right away didn't want to get into it, as I'm not sure there aren't those misspeaking, but with good intent. (I would hope it's not salvation, televangelist hootenanny style they're espousing.) But somebody said there would be no Christ without grace, and this, of course, isn't in the ballpark of literal truth. The Lord could burn up the entire world, hurl it out into the void, by just rights, and there would still be the Lord, there would still be God. The Lord Jesus willfully laid down His life, grace by faith our good fortune, at His expense, but that grace only one attribute of Almighty God who is expansive, also of justice and wrath not to be danced around by easy believism, grace in scripture, in no way, a "get out of hell free" card, touch the television for Billy Graham, then drinks around the bar. A big helping of grace, without repentance, will never lead to receiving the Holy Spirit. God knows our hearts and minds. God is love, but God is Holy, His love not some winking, soft touch, no Santa Claus, does not save those unrepentant, who don't even agree with Him in the matter of their sin, the world, the flesh and the devil. God is to be much feared, by anybody who thinks His grace comes cheap, and He is to be feared, respected as Holy and Almighty, humbly so by the saved.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.