Question on post trib rapture.

[Persuaded]

Yes I do.

I just believe post trib is the least supported view. Again if post trib is true, Jesus has no one to rule..

He only promised those who endured to the end to be saved, Not unbelievers..

Israel, They come to Christ, the tribulation causes them to repent.. That is the reason for the "time of Jacobs trouble"

Ok, so who does "those who endure to the end" refer too?
Are they the one who Jesus will rule for 1000 Years?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, so who does "those who endure to the end" refer too?
Are they the one who Jesus will rule for 1000 Years?

Those who are saved in tribulation.

Yes, they and their children.

 

[Persuaded]

Those who are saved in tribulation.

Yes, they and their children.

Thanks for you response. Can you give Scripture to support this?

 

[ggs7]

Yes I do.

I just believe post trib is the least supported view. Again if post trib is true, Jesus has no one to rule..

He only promised those who endured to the end to be saved, Not unbelievers..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

 

[DP]

Awesome! Thanks for the help both of you

But wouldn't you want to hear how ideas suggested in posts like peacefullbeliever above, scoots around the answer to your question?

Paul's "last trump" phrase is related to the "trumpet" event he mentioned in that verse:

1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

It should be very easy by just reading that phrase in red bold, to know Paul's "last trump" is the same trump he mentioned in 1 Thess.4:16, since it's about the subject of the resurrection.

 

[DP]

I cant give any advice except scripture;

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father
Mar 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, WATCH!!

and

Mat 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mat 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

Yeah, I can't give any other evidence than God's Word too:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for you response. Can you give Scripture to support this?

Really?

Who else would it be?

He who endures to the end will be saved.

That's why I do not like discussing end times stuff. Scripture is not exactly clear.. It does not say word for word what you want it to say, But yet it does say so.. Just not in so many words.

pre-trib or mid trib is ok, it fits,

Post trib, We have issues..

What more do you want?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I do.

I just believe post trib is the least supported view. Again if post trib is true, Jesus has no one to rule..

He only promised those who endured to the end to be saved, Not unbelievers..

[/COLOR]Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

For the elects sake, those born of God..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But wouldn't you want to hear how ideas suggested in posts like peacefullbeliever above, scoots around the answer to your question?

Paul's "last trump" phrase is related to the "trumpet" event he mentioned in that verse:

1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

It should be very easy by just reading that phrase in red bold, to know Paul's "last trump" is the same trump he mentioned in 1 Thess.4:16, since it's about the subject of the resurrection.

it would be very assuming to believe the trump of those passages, would be the same as the seventh trump of revelation.

they may be, Most likely they are not. But we have to use ALL scripture to determine.. Not just a few verses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah, I can't give any other evidence than God's Word too:

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Then he will kill all, great and small, who took the number of the beast, he will cast the beast and false prophet in the lake of fire, he will bound satan for 1000 years, where he will rule the nations with a rod of iron, and those who do not come once a year to Jerusalem to worship. He will withhold rain.

Oh but one problem. No one is left alive to rule..

 

[DP]

it would be very assuming to believe the trump of those passages, would be the same as the seventh trump of revelation.

they may be, Most likely they are not. But we have to use ALL scripture to determine.. Not just a few verses.

Yeah... it's the SAME trumpet as in 1 Thess.4:16, because it's about the RESURRECTION on the LAST DAY of this world...

No further comments of ignorance needed, it's a simple matter...

1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah... it's the SAME trumpet as in 1 Thess.4:16, because it's about the RESURRECTION on the LAST DAY of this world...

No further comments of ignorance needed, it's a simple matter...

1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

so your not post trib, pre mill..

your amill

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[valiant]

Yes I do.

I just believe post trib is the least supported view. Again if post trib is true, Jesus has no one to rule..

He only promised those who endured to the end to be saved, Not unbelievers..

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The great tribulation on the jews began in 70ad and has lasted to the present day. The days are shortened so that some might be saved. They will go into eternity with Christ. There will be no failing millennium.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The great tribulation on the jews began in 70ad and has lasted to the present day. The days are shortened so that some might be saved. They will go into eternity with Christ. There will be no failing millennium.

The great tribulation is said to be a short time, Not 2000 plus years and counting.

And paul said in romans 11 that at the end of the time of the gentile (where we are now) All Israel will be saved, not just some..

Sorry. But this is almost as bad as saying God will rule a personless world.

 

[valiant]

The great tribulation is said to be a short time, Not 2000 plus years and counting.

where?

And paul said in romans 11 that at the end of the time of the gentile (where we are now) All Israel will be saved, not just some..

LOL you should learn what 'all israel' means. It means all true Israel (believers) whether Jews or gentile per 11.12-24.

it says earlier only a REMNANT of Israel will be saved (9.27).

its a big remnant LOL read the context

Sorry. But this is almost as bad as saying God will rule a personless world.

rubbish

 

[eternally-gratefull]

where?

The OT it is all through it, as well as Revelation.

LOL you should learn what 'all israel' means. It means all true Israel (believers) whether Jews or gentile per 11.12-24.

Um no, there is no jew or gree, no free or slave, Israel is not all. Israel is all Israel.

it says earlier only a REMNANT of Israel will be saved (9.27).

That's true, at this time, a remnant is saved, The rest are blinded, Up until the time of the gentile has been completed.

its a big remnant LOL read the context

I did,,

There as always been a remnant, Never has the remnant been spoken of in reference to any gentile. Only to the jew.

The remnant is only until the time of the gentile is fulfilled. then ALL WILL BE SAVED

It is not speaking of gentiles.

Paus whole argument is that us gentiles should not be so puffed up since God put is where the jews once were, FOr God can cut us off as much as he cut them off. And in fact, He will..

rubbish

Yeah, whatever.. Keep thinking that.

The jews thought that of you once, and it got them in trouble. Now here you go doing what they did, And you think that is not sin?

 

[Devonmcknight68]

But wouldn't you want to hear how ideas suggested in posts like peacefullbeliever above, scoots around the answer to your question?

Paul's "last trump" phrase is related to the "trumpet" event he mentioned in that verse:

1 Cor 15:52
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
KJV

It should be very easy by just reading that phrase in red bold, to know Paul's "last trump" is the same trump he mentioned in 1 Thess.4:16, since it's about the subject of the resurrection.

which would be the last trumpet in revelation right?

 

[dcontroversal]

If the rapture is post trib,

Who will be left alive when Christ returns, that will enter the kingdom with him? Is Jesus going to rule no one? (remembering that all who reject him are killed at the time of his return.)

Those who are resurrected and changed at his coming....all of the saved!

 

[Devonmcknight68]

I don't know, my church believes that the rapture will happen before tribulation and my father in-law (the one who has taught me about Jesus to begin with) has taught me pre trib too. But I always find versus in the bible contradicting that. He won't ever listen to me though so I was hoping I could show him this.

 

[dcontroversal]

Bingo....post trib pre wrath at the 7th trump is when the resurrection/change takes place....Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 all teach AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.....2ND Thessalonians 2 after the revealing of the man of sin and after the complete apostatization of humanity... zero scriptures teach a pre trib resurrection/change