The Protestant reformers have*said the Catholic Church was the true Church*in Her early days. It is important to note that it is the Catholic Church who, through Her early Councils, originally confirmed which books of the Bible were considered inspired, and which books were to be included in the Canon of the Bible itself. This was essential to assure copies of Scripture had in those days agreed with the originals, and also to weed out books which contained heretical doctrine in them. The Catholic Church confirmed the books (the Canon) of the Bible in the*Councils of Hippo*(393) and 3rd Council of Carthage (397)*when, according to the Protestant reformers, She was still the true Church (click*here*for the actual Council text and scroll down to see the list of books in the Canon at that time, which is the same Canon used by the Catholic Church today). The Catholic Church also confirmed the same Canon at the Council of Florence (1441) and Council of Trent centuries later and have used the same Canon ever since the Council of Hippo in 393. How then did the Protestant reformers remove so many books (i.e. Baruch, Tobias, Judith, Machabees, Wisdom etc) from the Old and New Testaments if it was the true Church that ruled they were Canonical? If the Protestant reformers truly thought the Catholic Church was the*true Church*at one time then later fell into error, why do the reformers not follow the decisions the Church made when She was still supposedly true?Who told the Protestant reformers that the books they removed from the Bible were not legitimate and by what authority did they remove them? Some Protestant reformers claim some books were rejected because they were not in Hebrew or Chaldaic, though some other books that were kept by the Protestant reformers were not in these languages either, so this excuse cannot be used. And where is it found in Scripture that they should be written in a certain language?To say that some books were not accepted because they were not accepted by the Jews does not apply to the point at hand either. The Catholic Church holds the books of Machabees and others mentioned above as Canonical, and if she was the true Church when She determined this, then this is what must be believed. Because the Jews did not accept the deutero-canonical books does not effect the fact that the early Christian Church accepted them. Where in Scripture does it say the Christian Church has not as much power to give authority to the Sacred Books as the Mosaic may have had?Why do the Protestant reformers call parts of Scripture false when the whole of antiquity has held them as articles of faith? We see many writers from the first three centuries including St. Clement of Rome, St. Irenaeus, St. Hippolytus, Tertullian, Cyprian and many others all allude to the deutero-canonical books we mention above. Who gave the reformers the direction to declare these books false? For example, the book of Judith was made authoritative by the Council of Nice, when the Church was never greater or more solemn. Why blatantly defy the decisions of this council?Of those reformers who claim their decisions to strike books from the Canon are from the Holy Ghost, we ask that you please show proof. Why would the Holy Ghost suddenly give inspirations as to what everyone must believe to unknown men like Luther and Calvin, after they abandoned the Councils and the entire Church? Shall we simply believe the reformers at their word? How then do we believe or not believe the next person who also claims the same inspiration? If the Protestant reformers were inspired, then God would clearly show the world a sign like with others inspired in Scripture, but a sign the reformers have not shown so they are not to be believed.If God had revealed something a thousand times over to a private person we should not be obliged to believe it unless God gave us such an undeniable sign that we could no longer call it into question. How else are we to separate the false prophet from the true prophet? If we were obliged to believe everyone claiming internal revelations, we would soon be swamped with deceivers and would be completely lost.Where did the Protestant reformers come up with the exact list of books in the Canon they choose to follow? Who told them which books should be included or removed? It was not the Jews that told them as the Gospels would not be there. It was not from the Council of Laodicea for the Apocalypse would be in it. It was not from the Council of Carthage or Florence for Ecclesiasticus and Machabees would be included. So where did the reformers decide on their specific list of books to include? No such Canon was used before the Protestant reformation as the many Protestant denominations use now. What is the likelihood that the Holy Spirit hid for the first 1400+ years of the Church, then revealed a new Canon to two unknown men, namely Luther and Calvin?The Protestant reformers have taken away many books from the original Scriptures such as* Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom and both books of Machabees. In the ancient Church there was originally some doubt about some books being inspired and no doubt about many others, yet the Protestant reformers have accepted some of the doubtful and cast out some that were never doubtful. So why were the specific set of books cut from the Scriptures by the Protestant reformers other than that the doctrine of some were hard for them to accept? The reformers do not give a logical answer for their striking some books from the Canon and it is clear that they were simply contradicting the Church. It just so happens that the contents of the books of Machabees contains doctrine on the intercession of Saints and prayers for the departed and Ecclesiasticus contains doctrine on the honor of relics, which is doctrine that just so happens to be accepted by the Catholic Church and denied by the reformers. Remember, it was the Catholic Church in Her early days (when She was the*True Church*according to the Protestant reformers) that received the books Machabees as canonical along with the other books of Scripture. So why defy the Church on just Machabees?
The Protestant reformers have violated Holy Scripture
- Thread starter Bscow
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I must have missed the scriptures, where?
Its not animosity to point out the truth concerning your doctrine. When I hear the name of Mary (the creature) I think of the RC but not when it come to Jesus Christ (the Creator). He is not preeminent there, He just isnt.
He is pretty much a wafer is all and Mary is queen of the roost
Its not animosity to point out the truth concerning your doctrine. When I hear the name of Mary (the creature) I think of the RC but not when it come to Jesus Christ (the Creator). He is not preeminent there, He just isnt.
He is pretty much a wafer is all and Mary is queen of the roost
C
You will have to get your story straight with your sect, I have heard them say Mary marries the Father and Jesus marries the Church. Then after quoting how Mary had already bruised the serpent under her feet the apostles says God shall do the that very thing under your feet shortly, then their story flipflops through their followers as they look for the answers posted for them. First she is the new woman, the new Eve when the apostles say the man and the woman was a picture of Christ and the church. They rarely speak in accord with the apostles. to point to Christ but to themselves and to Mary.
Of the man and the woman (from the beginning) Paul says,
Ephes 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
And of Christ and the church, God would do the following in that mystery
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet ( shortly ).
Of the man and the woman (from the beginning) Paul says,
Ephes 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
And of Christ and the church, God would do the following in that mystery
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet ( shortly ).
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