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J
self examination and a willingness to accept change when the Lord shows us is important is the value in seeing bad fruit in us. some hear a word in scripture and it offends them because they are not living that way. 2 reactions I notice to this 1 . disregard and find different things that commend us, or......focus on the things we haven't perfected yet accept them as truth and THAT changes the things we cannot change in our own effort. the word of God is truly living in us and ever wiling to make us better in the eyes Of God. when we accept that there is no more to be or do, it hinders us in many ways.
this is my own view, and a value in self axamining to make sure we aren't preaching what we aren't actually living and condemning ourselves with careless words
J
I don't have enuff fingers & toes to count how many on here have quoted from their favorite televangelist & have claimed their "spirit" discerned it as true.
Not sayin' you're wrong, jus' sayin' there's some that couldn't discern a bumble bee from a turkey vulture.
I agree with that, that is the importance of the holy spirit in us it will identify the spirits other than itself in others words and actions
Judging by their fruit - On God TV I saw Todd Bentley at lakeland. At first I thought this was great.
A converted biker, preaching and people praising the Lord.
But no repentance, no you need to turn from sins, turn to God for forgiveness through the cross.
No it was angels, Emma, wealth from heaven, the supernatural and healings, being drunk in the spirit, "Bam".
All the tatoos were christian inspired. An anointing on people really confused them, they were not sure what it was or how it worked. Then the apostles laying on of hands and finally adultery, divorce and marriage to the lover.
And Todd talks about being possessed while being a believer, and lots of satanic influences.
So all in all, confusing and no purity or righteousness or a true work of God. Even with all this people stood by Todd, it was just the spiritual war not the guy was just a stage manager of a spiritual circus. This whole mixing of influences has done my head in because it has all the desire to find God, but is just introducing people to other spiritual beings and astral travel, which is all new age and occult in origin. And what did this do for the body of Christ. Spread confusion and moral compromise. The underlining message was it really does not matter how they behave, they are in the ministry so just submit to their authority.
A converted biker, preaching and people praising the Lord.
But no repentance, no you need to turn from sins, turn to God for forgiveness through the cross.
No it was angels, Emma, wealth from heaven, the supernatural and healings, being drunk in the spirit, "Bam".
All the tatoos were christian inspired. An anointing on people really confused them, they were not sure what it was or how it worked. Then the apostles laying on of hands and finally adultery, divorce and marriage to the lover.
And Todd talks about being possessed while being a believer, and lots of satanic influences.
So all in all, confusing and no purity or righteousness or a true work of God. Even with all this people stood by Todd, it was just the spiritual war not the guy was just a stage manager of a spiritual circus. This whole mixing of influences has done my head in because it has all the desire to find God, but is just introducing people to other spiritual beings and astral travel, which is all new age and occult in origin. And what did this do for the body of Christ. Spread confusion and moral compromise. The underlining message was it really does not matter how they behave, they are in the ministry so just submit to their authority.
E
well exactly...see, Lordship Salvation does not agree with that...they view salvation as kind of a 2 step process
I guess if Chuck comes back, he can say yes or no to that though
I view salvation as the simple plan presented in the Bible...through faith in Christ by the grace of God
I don't see God putting any other specifics on it...after that, we walk before Him by the Holy Spirit
Some folks like to make it way more complicated
We really cannot judge nor are we supposed to judge, the heart of another
Truly, anyone, anywhere can be saved...as witnessed by Paul's conversion and others who were saved without human intervention
E
as usual? well truly thanks for that!
I did not have a good day today...I had some real strange opposition on a transaction that has always been smooth..my reaction was not fruitful sorry to say
however, have things worked through...asked for forgiveness..prayed against what I felt was coming against me...everything worked out and I learned a few things along the way
so, God is GOOD! and so is pleasant Christian fellowship
God bless you also
I did not have a good day today...I had some real strange opposition on a transaction that has always been smooth..my reaction was not fruitful sorry to say
however, have things worked through...asked for forgiveness..prayed against what I felt was coming against me...everything worked out and I learned a few things along the way
so, God is GOOD! and so is pleasant Christian fellowship
God bless you also
J
amen, thank God for the grace we stand in or none of us would be going anywhere
I'm thinking from what I have seen of your words, its unusual that you participate in unhealthy exchanges. after reading ur post here I'm soooo thankful for the patience and kindness and mercy and constant work he puts into His children who He Loves so deeply. God is really truly so Good to us who purpose to be found in His heart and ways, even when we do fail, He does not fail us
E
I have been in unhealthy exchanges...the kind where someone denies grace or twists scripture, of which there is a frequent and recurrent supply round here these parts
The latest is the ever popular replacement theology thread wherein someone...more than one...actually wrote that Christ was killed by the Jews
Can't tell you how that gets me riled LOL!...well...
Romans 11 makes things pretty clear on that subject I would say...but if not for grace and God's eternal love, things would be lost...God is faithful
see, in a thread like this, where the desire is to glorify God, there is freedom to do so...in threads where someone takes scripture and tortures it, the atmosphere is not the same
I have an overblown sensitivity...I see you are an artist...meet another one...maybe that is why we seem to get along?
The latest is the ever popular replacement theology thread wherein someone...more than one...actually wrote that Christ was killed by the Jews
Can't tell you how that gets me riled LOL!...well...
Romans 11 makes things pretty clear on that subject I would say...but if not for grace and God's eternal love, things would be lost...God is faithful
see, in a thread like this, where the desire is to glorify God, there is freedom to do so...in threads where someone takes scripture and tortures it, the atmosphere is not the same
I have an overblown sensitivity...I see you are an artist...meet another one...maybe that is why we seem to get along?
J
I think recognizing something is different from judging first.
we are all in the ministry really from least to greatest. recognition by the fruit of the spirit is important. Jesus said this, paul taught identifiers of the fruit of the spirit, or evidence of the spirit. if a person is operating in the "fruits" identified in the sinful nature its a red flag to really look at their words. if someone is just nice, that's not the spirits fruit. and the fruits mentioned in the scriptures in the op, are not completely all there is to the spirit either that's why it says "at least in part"
repent is the first recorded word when Jesus began His ministry :"repent, for the kingdom is near" so I think when we spend time in scripture, and leave room for the spirit of God that is the truth of all of this. to go preach no need for repentance is not a message of truth. ( not that you are saying that, I understand what you are saying.) I ramble often . The fruits of the spirit are identifiers for the spirit of God, in my own opinion. and righteousness, repentance, and many other things in the word are fruits of the spirit as well. the point in the op, if someone is not exhibiting these fruits it is a red flag to consider what they are saying, not that it disqualifies them because of mistakes, but their nature should exhibit these fruits in increasing and sincere manners.
we need to be careful who we listen to, but trust the spirit of God in us who believe to discern things. a lot of what you said here is true and like I said I'm just rambling from some thoughts you lead me to,
Thank you for the insight and participation, God bless you
One thing that bothers me about fruit is why certain ideas annoy or anger others.
Take the idea Jesus was executed. He obviously was executed on the common means of execution of the day crucifixtion.
Now this is a valid conclusion. There are others, Jesus gave up His life as a sacrifice for all, which is also true.
Now the fruit of an inflexible mind, getting angry at people if they do not conform to ones own views, is the fruit of a lack of acceptance and grace. I spoke to my cousin who follows an indian guru, and he wanted to convince me this guru was an incarnation of Jesus. I found his insistence interesting, not because it was true, but because he wanted it so badly to be real. I just wanted to understand him, because without an empathetic connection, just stating my faith carried no weight.
He did though acknowledge being christian was a Godly walk. I never got much further with him, but there was no point getting upset, he was convinced what he was saying made sense.
Take the idea Jesus was executed. He obviously was executed on the common means of execution of the day crucifixtion.
Now this is a valid conclusion. There are others, Jesus gave up His life as a sacrifice for all, which is also true.
Now the fruit of an inflexible mind, getting angry at people if they do not conform to ones own views, is the fruit of a lack of acceptance and grace. I spoke to my cousin who follows an indian guru, and he wanted to convince me this guru was an incarnation of Jesus. I found his insistence interesting, not because it was true, but because he wanted it so badly to be real. I just wanted to understand him, because without an empathetic connection, just stating my faith carried no weight.
He did though acknowledge being christian was a Godly walk. I never got much further with him, but there was no point getting upset, he was convinced what he was saying made sense.
J
I did not realize !! awesome I like meeting fellow craftsmen or artists for sure ! hopefully the Love of Jesus is the main foundation
and yessss twisting scripture or using it out of true context is sooo irritating, basically any view can be supported that way, but understanding comes by the spirit of God The Word is spirit, God is spirit, his prophets spoke by the spirit, Jesus was born of the spirit, he promised the spirit, told His followers to wait until the spirit came before beginning their work, Paul was taught and pressed on by the spirit, the apostles, the word from beginning to end is by and for, spoken and understood all by the spirit of the One true God, that comes to us by faith in His One and Only begotten if the father............the spirit of God is reallllllllly important haha I I guess you are aware of
E
I did not realize !! awesome I like meeting fellow craftsmen or artists for sure ! hopefully the Love of Jesus is the main foundation and yessss twisting scripture or using it out of true context is sooo irritating, basically any view can be supported that way, but understanding comes by the spirit of God
The Word is spirit, God is spirit, his prophets spoke by the spirit, Jesus was born of the spirit, he promised the spirit, told His followers to wait until the spirit came before beginning their work, Paul was taught and pressed on by the spirit, the apostles, the word from beginning to end is by and for, spoken and understood all by the spirit of the One true God, that comes to us by faith in His One and Only begotten if the father............the spirit of God is reallllllllly important haha I I guess you are aware of
and yessss twisting scripture or using it out of true context is sooo irritating, basically any view can be supported that way, but understanding comes by the spirit of God The Word is spirit, God is spirit, his prophets spoke by the spirit, Jesus was born of the spirit, he promised the spirit, told His followers to wait until the spirit came before beginning their work, Paul was taught and pressed on by the spirit, the apostles, the word from beginning to end is by and for, spoken and understood all by the spirit of the One true God, that comes to us by faith in His One and Only begotten if the father............the spirit of God is reallllllllly important haha I I guess you are aware of
yes...reallllllllly important!