Once Saved Always saved....Read this

[Grace777x70]

Knowing who you are in Christ because of His finished work that made us "alive" unto God now will change our outward behavior...."awake to righteousness and sin not..".....this is a call to see who you are in Christ and in knowing that....His life in you changes our behavior..

Knowing that we are dead to sin and "alive" to God is what is needed for real transformation in a Christian's life.

When we see that we are the righteousness of God in Christ... - we become outwardly who we really are in our new creation in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:34 (KJV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."


The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives.

 

[kedge]

Our brain is part of our body ... and has been programmed to sin most of our lives.

So who is the programmer who wrote the code to sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our whole being is sanctified, even our flesh. That is why it is imperative that we keep our vessel clean. The whole man is holy, or he is not holy at all. There is no such thing as a holy inner man and an unholy outer man. That's gnosticsim, pure and simple.

Here we go with the attacks again

The OT law of the sacrifice must have alluded you.

The blood was put on the vessel, which had the things against man inside (sin) so that god looked at the blood, and did not see the sin.

1. You can't keep your vessel clean, The law is still against you. (the ten commands inside the vessel)
2. As if that was not enough, God keeps a record of all you do (the rod that budded)

Those whill condemn you to hell. Unless you are washed by the blood. Plain and simple. The high priest does not sacrifice once a year anymore, because our true high priest died once. forever forgiving sin.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

The flesh isn't foreign to us, it's our very nature. This IMO is why John said that the one who says he is without sin is a liar.

"God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
...
God saw all that he had made, and it was very good"

-enter sin-

"Then the eyes of both of them were opened..."

(Genesis)

 

[PeterJens]

There appears to be a moral problem as proposed by Grace7x77.

Self righteousness is claimed as being evil. Now this sounds maybe right, but let us break it down.

Righteousness is doing the right thing.

Righteousness in terms of justification fails if one sin occurs. Now righteousness in terms of actions is always the property of the individual who does the actions. Faith is deemed by God as reckoned as righteousness or justification before God.
So our righteousness is not involved in justification, but our righteousness is a reflection of the work God has done in us.

We are not justified except by Jesus and his sacrifice which brings us forgiveness. As fruit of His work and becoming a member of the Kingdom, righteousness is the key. But these people oppose this, with vehemence and anger. That is dangerous if they are 100% wrong, and condemning Gods work as nothing at all because of their unbelief.

Now walking in the flesh is actually walking in sin, immorality, lying, idolatry, drunkenness etc. It is not doing good things, but not having the inspiration or energy. This is condemnation of the works of the Lord in peoples lives.

So the whole cornerstone of Grace7x77's approach is simply not true. Why should anyone have confidence in anything else that comes out of this well of bitterness and anger at the past they lived in legalism. I am sure they were legalists at the confession of their own lips, but that does not make me like them or within their polarized view.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'll just keep posting the scriptures...it will help someone that is viewing the threads out.....some will keep bringing in straw-men and "half-truths...but the Holy Spirit will reveal His word to those that are open to it.....

The "old man" died on the cross with Jesus..this is why people don't understand the difference between spirit which is the inner man of the heart......there is still the flesh left which has the power of sin in it. These are the scriptures...

If we don't "know" that the old man is dead...we will never understand the new creation in Christ..created in righteousness and holiness....then the natural mind cannot understand this spiritual principal....This is the problem with some.

Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
[SUP]6[/SUP] knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,


Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

am crucified with Christ = perfect passive = a done deal ...an action done in the past with a result being continuously in the present


Now...for the flesh...read Romans 7:14-22.....

Romans 7:17-23 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.


Now we walk according to the Spirit so we will not fulfill the flesh's desire.

Romans 6:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

"A rider of scooters and teaching others how to do it....."heaven style"..will be one of your joys to do in eternal life..."-Grace

Hahahaha ... maybe my urban steed will be replaced by a cherubim?

I hear cherubim are scary in real life!

 

[nu2see]

Our real nature is in Christ..granted to us by our good, loving Father!


Ephesians 2:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

2 Peter 1:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord;
[SUP]3 [/SUP] seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.

Hey Grace, (and everybody, great posting)
But Grace, just an aside...
Is it possible for you to place your replies AFTER
the original post you re-quote?
Just so there is a natural flow to the
scrolling when reading 'statement/reply'.

Sometimes I start to read your post and
wonder what your getting on about,
then I get to the bottom and see a re-quote,
and then I go,' OH! THAT', and I have to scroll
back up and re-read your reply within that post.

Lol, it's kinda like 'Jeopardy' game show,
where they give the answer first,
and you have to guess the question.

But anyway, God bless you, Grace7s,
Jesus loves you!

 

[gb9]

Here we go with the attacks again

The OT law of the sacrifice must have alluded you.

The blood was put on the vessel, which had the things against man inside (sin) so that god looked at the blood, and did not see the sin.

1. You can't keep your vessel clean, The law is still against you. (the ten commands inside the vessel)
2. As if that was not enough, God keeps a record of all you do (the rod that budded)

Those whill condemn you to hell. Unless you are washed by the blood. Plain and simple. The high priest does not sacrifice once a year anymore, because our true high priest died once. forever forgiving sin.

if one sees themselves as righteous and holy because they BEHAVE their way into, they have no real concept of grace. forgiveness is not a one-and-done, the rest is up to me. this is what happens when you mix law and grace. you get legalism. every time.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

There appears to be a moral problem as proposed by Grace7x77.

Self righteousness is claimed as being evil. Now this sounds maybe right, but let us break it down.

Righteousness is doing the right thing.

Righteousness in terms of justification fails if one sin occurs. Now righteousness in terms of actions is always the property of the individual who does the actions. Faith is deemed by God as reckoned as righteousness or justification before God.
So our righteousness is not involved in justification, but our righteousness is a reflection of the work God has done in us.

We are not justified except by Jesus and his sacrifice which brings us forgiveness. As fruit of His work and becoming a member of the Kingdom, righteousness is the key. But these people oppose this, with vehemence and anger. That is dangerous if they are 100% wrong, and condemning Gods work as nothing at all because of their unbelief.

Now walking in the flesh is actually walking in sin, immorality, lying, idolatry, drunkenness etc. It is not doing good things, but not having the inspiration or energy. This is condemnation of the works of the Lord in peoples lives.

So the whole cornerstone of Grace7x77's approach is simply not true. Why should anyone have confidence in anything else that comes out of this well of bitterness and anger at the past they lived in legalism. I am sure they were legalists at the confession of their own lips, but that does not make me like them or within their polarized view.

English isn't your first language, is it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There appears to be moral problem as proposed by Grace7x77.

Self righteousness is claims as being evil. Now this sounds maybe right, but let us break it down.

Righteousness is doing the right thing.

Righteousness in terms of justification fails if one sin occurs. Now righteousness in terms of actions is always the property of the individual who does the actions. Faith is deemed by God as reckoned as righteousness or justification before God.
So our righteousness is not involved in justification, but our righteousness is a reflection of the work God has done in us.

We are not justified except by Jesus and his sacrifice which brings us forgiveness. As fruit of His work and becoming a member of the Kingdom, righteousness is the key. But these people oppose this, with vehemence and anger. That is dangerous if they are 100% wrong, and condemning Gods work as nothing at all because of their unbelief.

Now walking in the flesh is actually walking in sin, immorality, lying, idolatry, drunkenness etc. It is not doing good things, but not having the inspiration or energy. This is condemnation of the works of the Lord in peoples lives.

So the whole cornerstone of Grace7x77's approach is simply not true. Why should anyone have confidence in anything else that comes out of this well of bitterness and anger at the past they lived in legalism. I am sure they were legalists at the confession of their own lips, but that does not make me like them or within their polarized view.

There is a problem with your post, and thinking.

You thinking appears to say, As long as I am morally good. I am ok. It is sin that takes me out.

These morally good things will not get me to heaven, In fact even with all of these morally good things, The bible tells me I have still sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

We all need to compare ourselves to God. and not to other people.. That is what Paul did, He saw him self as a chief of sinners, even while he walked with God and did all of those great things,, Because he compared himself to Gods righteousness, and knew he fell short.

Your moral deeds will not get you one finger out of hell.. Let alone your whole soul.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if one sees themselves as righteous and holy because they BEHAVE their way into, they have no real concept of grace. forgiveness is not a one-and-done, the rest is up to me. this is what happens when you mix law and grace. you get legalism. every time.

That's why you are forced to water down Gods law.. You can not look at your life from the view of the law or Gods righteousness as the guideline, And see yourself righteous, It is impossible.

If Paul. Who did all he did after he was converted, Saw himself as still being sanctified, Still chief of sinners, Still running the race.

Then how could any mere man today think he could be greater than paul?

 

[ember]

So who is the programmer who wrote the code to sin?

that had to be the result of an open source platform like WP

everybody's got a hand in it

 

[Grace777x70]

The problem with that is I have some on ignore from past experiences with their malice and slander..I gave them the option to stop but they didn't want to..so I just blessed them and moved on. So, unless I see something in someone else's post..I'm in the dark..sometimes I check to see if they have repented of their ways and then I can see what they have posted.

Here is a thread about this behavior and what to do about it... ( and no..there is no such thing as Christian porn..lol..it was a play on "watching what you see" and thus guarding your hearts....

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ing-un-christian-porn-protect-your-heart.html

Hey Grace, (and everybody, great posting)
But Grace, just an aside...
Is it possible for you to place your replies AFTER
the original post you re-quote?
Just so there is a natural flow to the
scrolling when reading 'statement/reply'.

Sometimes I start to read your post and
wonder what your getting on about,
then I get to the bottom and see a re-quote,
and then I go,' OH! THAT', and I have to scroll
back up and re-read your reply within that post.

Lol, it's kinda like 'Jeopardy' game show,
where they give the answer first,
and you have to guess the question.

But anyway, God bless you, Grace7s,
Jesus loves you!

 

[thepsalmist]

So who is the programmer who wrote the code to sin?

GEN 1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

English isn't your first language, is it?

I meant this as a matter-of-fact question, and not intended to cause offense.

I have not understood your last three (rather lengthy) posts.

 

[nu2see]

English isn't your first language, is it?

That might have been a bit 'snarky' PW,
Seeing how he IS British.
It doesn't bother me so much, but you HAVE
at times, corrected others for being humorously sarcastic.
Just sayin'. But anyway...
I DO get what you're saying reeterJens post.
I try hard to understand where he's coming from,
and where he's going, too, but often find myself
going, HUNH?!

I don't mean to be mean, lol, I just don't get him!
God bless you, PeacefulWarrior...old friend!
(and GBU too, PeterJens!)

 

[Magenta]

The problem with that is I have some on ignore from past experiences with their malice and slander..I gave them the option to stop but they didn't want to..so I just blessed them and moved on. So, unless I see something in someone else's post..I'm in the dark..sometimes I check to see if they have repented of their ways and then I can see what they have posted.

Here is a thread about this behavior and what to do about it... ( and no..there is no such thing as Christian porn..lol..it was a play on "watching what you see" and thus guarding your hearts....

What does any of this have to do with keeping things in proper order when you respond?

 

[thepsalmist]

I hear cherubim are scary in real life!

Haha- I bet they are!

Riding on these Quebec roads full of potholes with these stressed out motorists is no stroll in the park ... could it be any scarier?

 

[PeterJens]

Our whole being is sanctified, even our flesh. That is why it is imperative that we keep our vessel clean. The whole man is holy, or he is not holy at all. There is no such thing as a holy inner man and an unholy outer man. That's gnosticsim, pure and simple.

Now gnosticism is the splitting of the soul or spirit into two, the flesh that is evil and the spirit that is pure and holy.

The problem with this concept is it is trying to solve the problem of failure. Now God has already dealt with genetic failure by excluding those with blemishes to be excluded from the priesthood and not used when occuring in sacrificial animals.

Our lot is to accept our weaknesses but take on the task of bringing our bodies into submission of Christ. The Holy Spirit empowers us, gives us the direction and the words, but we need to obey and act. If God was doing as people suggested, making purified holy people without human will or involvement, they would be streaming out of churches all the time.

As they are not, this is simply not true. The truth is if you have a heart of flesh, which is alive, honest, truthful and full of love, love in Christ you have everything you need. If you had this you would know what these words mean. Because so many oppose this, all I can suggest is you are still shut down, defended and full of distrust and anger.

This is what I read in the attacks or even calling what is a clear definition of theology and philosophy as an insult, is completely aggressive behaviour. Also calling those who believe in Christ alone by faith as works based christians is slander and a distortion of peoples beliefs. Saying these positions are also a work of Satan, is the final drawing of lines.

The work of the enemy is to persuade people sin does not matter, it is already dealt with for everyone, and you are saved if you grabbed the lifeline at some point in your life. Someone stated Jesus is not tough.

Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
mark 13:13

If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
John 6:53

This is all tough talk. Jesus is not nice touchy, feely. His way is full of judgement, holiness, life and death, torture and evil done against those who follow the way of life. Which side are you really on?