Doctrine

[phil36]

I would say the doctrine of the pharisees could very well mislead people. Incorrect doctrine will also draw away from the truth.

well said Dino

A wrong understanding of scripture will lead on the wrong path. A doctrines conveys the truth of the bible, not heresies or wild notions. thats why there are creeds.


Does doctrine save..?

If I where to say to an unsaved friend... "Jesus loves you, and because of your sin, which we inherited from adam and eve,He died for you, he paid the penalty of death in your place and recieved the wrath of God in your place, so that you may have life in Him, repent and believe in Jesus the Lord and Saviour"

Now that is a pretty loose statement on reason why we need a savior and whythat saviour died in our place. It is a 'doctrine' a statement of Faith, from scripture, a short glimpse of the meta story of the whole bible i.e, a glimpse of the truth of redemptive history.

by the way I am not saying thats what i would say, but an example.

Most doctrine goes into detail:

grace,providence,justification,faith,trinity,covenant etc etc. they are truths, if they are from a correct biblical understanding.

you could say the creeds are 'doctrine' however, bear in mind the only infallible truth is scripture.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[phil36]

Also scripture says not to receive God's grace in vain. Which would be receiving it, and then falling away. Receiving it, and not pursuing holiness.
2Co 6:1 But working together, we also call on you not to receive the grace of God in vain.


How many of you can say, "I am glad I chose to receive God's grace, I am glad I saved myself", without feeling guilty? And God says, "I am glad you chose my offer of grace, and chose to be saved, as well"

Now we sit back and wait for the Calvinists to spit chips .

Lol, even we Calvinists can laugh at ourselves. Although you know I won't agree with you lol.

 

[VW]

doctrine does not save. grace is what we are saved by. grace is god drawing near to us, and allowing us to come into his presence. the better word for doctrine would be teaching, so they really are the teachings we receive as the things we believe. salvation is the work of god in us, us being born of the spirit, but faith works with this work of god in us.

so many of the teachings we have presented to us are of man's understanding,taken from the scriptures. but the pure milk of the word is those teachings which are given to us by the spirit. the spirit teaches through the teacher, he is really the teacher, and he convicts and confirms in the hearer. in this way we have true teachings, and the true word. not only can this save, in can and will help us to grow into the fullness of christ.

may the lord be our teacher

 

[phil36]

Hey VW, that was a nice 'Doctrinal' statement you just made. You are correct God is the one who saves, we cannot do it ourselves. Doctrinal statements are from men, thats why I said 'the only infallible truth is scripture'.

yet to set this in perspective, a statement like " I believe Jesus died to pay the penalty I deserve" is a formulation of scripture yet, it tells the truth, yet is that statment in the bible? that statement would be a 'doctrinal' statement.

However, there are huge differences in how Evangelicals regard doctrine and how the romanists view doctrine.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[VW]

Hey VW, that was a nice 'Doctrinal' statement you just made. You are correct God is the one who saves, we cannot do it ourselves. Doctrinal statements are from men, thats why I said 'the only infallible truth is scripture'.

yet to set this in perspective, a statement like " I believe Jesus died to pay the penalty I deserve" is a formulation of scripture yet, it tells the truth, yet is that statment in the bible? that statement would be a 'doctrinal' statement.

However, there are huge differences in how Evangelicals regard doctrine and how the romanists view doctrine.

Kind regards

Phil

yes that would be a doctrinal statement.

i believe that we need to examine whether what we believe is not just from the scripture, but also if the holy spirit witnesses to it also. in fact, if he does not confirm , we should discard that teaching, doctrine, or belief.

now some will say that not all can hear him, but we believe, and he testified that jesus was raised from the dead in our hearts, and jesus was very clear that his sheep hear his voice. we need to believe.

asking for his best for you
vic

 

[phil36]

yes that would be a doctrinal statement.

i believe that we need to examine whether what we believe is not just from the scripture, but also if the holy spirit witnesses to it also. in fact, if he does not confirm , we should discard that teaching, doctrine, or belief.

now some will say that not all can hear him, but we believe, and he testified that jesus was raised from the dead in our hearts, and jesus was very clear that his sheep hear his voice. we need to believe.

asking for his best for you
vic

So what else do you think we might need to believe that is not in Scripture?? (2 Tim 3:16)

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11


Kind regards

Phil

 

[VW]

So what else do you think we might need to believe that is not in Scripture?? (2 Tim 3:16)

"Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Acts 17:11


Kind regards

Phil

but it is in the scripture. this is so hard to explain. when we take all that the scripture has to say about the spirit, and his purpose in us and to us, and if we trust him to teach us, we will find overwhelming evidence of his place as our teacher.

in the verse you quoted, dont you think that paul spoke to the bereans with the anointing of the holy spirit? and dont you think that in their case, having heard the scriptures explained showing the christ has come as the lamb, such things as had been hidden before, that as they searched, the spirit was with them as they sought to believe?

all i ever ask of one who hears this teaching is that they seek the holy spirit in this.

in his great concern for us all
vic

 

[charisenexcelcis]

My view:
1. We are saved by grace through faith (that being the gift of God).
2. No one has perfect doctrine.
3. Most honest disagreements in doctrine come from an emphasis in one facet or another of Biblical, eternal truth.
4. While doctrine does not save, there are some doctrines that can ****.

 

[phil36]

Hi VW,


Sorry Vw, I am at work here, I see what your statement means now. That the Spirit will guide you in your reading of Scripture and not that he will add to scripture.

thats what I get for skim reading sorry again for the misquote.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[phil36]

My view:
1. We are saved by grace through faith (that being the gift of God).
2. No one has perfect doctrine.
3. Most honest disagreements in doctrine come from an emphasis in one facet or another of Biblical, eternal truth.
4. While doctrine does not save, there are some doctrines that can ****.

You are correct charisenexelcis (thats some nickname to type out lol), we will have disagreemants in doctrine from some emphasis or another within Evangelicalism (protestant), But I will strongly disagree with RC,LDS,JW etc as I define them as being heretical or apostate.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[charisenexcelcis]

You are correct charisenexelcis (thats some nickname to type out lol), we will have disagreemants in doctrine from some emphasis or another within Evangelicalism (protestant), But I will strongly disagree with RC,LDS,JW etc as I define them as being heretical or apostate.

Kind regards

Phil

Thnak you. The name is a mixture of Greek and Latin and means "grace in the greatest" because I have received and continue to receive grace in the greatest measure.

 

[aspen]

My view:
1. We are saved by grace through faith (that being the gift of God).
2. No one has perfect doctrine.
3. Most honest disagreements in doctrine come from an emphasis in one facet or another of Biblical, eternal truth.
4. While doctrine does not save, there are some doctrines that can ****.

Great post!

Say more about 4 - how does incorrect (I am assuming you mean incorrect) doctrine daammnn?

 

[phil36]

I would presume charis, means that, false teachers, teaching false doctrine, will not lead people to a true saving relationships with Christ. its the old story of false doctrines being built on bits of truth, they ring of truth but are not truth.

Within evangelicalism there are usually 9 statements that all will hold, all other doctrines withing evangelicalism (protestants) are the ones where we may differ or emphasise another view, ie gifts of the spirit etc.

Kind regards

Phil

 

[resurrection33]

What was wrong with the doctrine of the Pharisees? We all know it is bad, but why is it bad?

Religion should be an attempt to have, and improve, a relationship with the Lord, shouldn’t it? The Pharisees, it seems to me, pretty much ignored the Lord and devoted themselves to following a list of meaningless rules.

 

[phil36]

What was wrong with the doctrine of the Pharisees? We all know it is bad, but why is it bad?

I like the your questions here aspen. But I am not sure if you know the answer by asking them, trying to get people to think about 'why they believe what they believe', or if your trying to act like a great bible teacher?

Just my thoughts on your question

Kind regards

Phil

 

[VW]

Hi VW,


Sorry Vw, I am at work here, I see what your statement means now. That the Spirit will guide you in your reading of Scripture and not that he will add to scripture.

thats what I get for skim reading sorry again for the misquote.

Kind regards

Phil

that's cool. that is why i clarified.

thanks brother in christ,
vic

 

[VW]

Thnak you. The name is a mixture of Greek and Latin and means "grace in the greatest" because I have received and continue to receive grace in the greatest measure.

i have no greek at all, but i love this, grace in the greatest.

i always am of kings and queens and such being called "your grace."

but grace from the father is the greatest grace.

blessings
vic

 

[phil36]

There has been many threads devoted to correct doctrine on this board, lately.

Does correct doctrine save you?

Does false doctrine daammnn you?

You guys already know what I think about this issue - I've heard a little bit from a few people on this subject, but I would like to hear more.

The first question, is quite a good one, and plenty of people have some great views. but when you realise a doctrinal statement like some of the ones i used in my earlier post can be used of the Lord to save (only God saves). then you start to see the value of good doctrines. peolpe tend to link doctrine with theological scholars, but we make doctrinal statements all the time as Christians.

I think the second question is a no - brainer as Jesus says you are condemned already. and someone who may give lip service and say they were christian and led away by false teachers - i would doubt the validity of their salvation. bad doctrine will lead people further away from the light.

kind regards

phil

Good questions though.

 

[VW]

I would presume charis, means that, false teachers, teaching false doctrine, will not lead people to a true saving relationships with Christ. its the old story of false doctrines being built on bits of truth, they ring of truth but are not truth.

Within evangelicalism there are usually 9 statements that all will hold, all other doctrines withing evangelicalism (protestants) are the ones where we may differ or emphasise another view, ie gifts of the spirit etc.

Kind regards

Phil

but what if one believes without the witness of the spirit that jesus was raised? then it is really just hope.
this one might come to know that he is raised, really know, from the inner man,by the spirit , but is it not much better that our witness be in the power of the holy spirit, (see 1st cor chapter 2,) so that their faith should rest on the power of god, and not on the wisdom of men. this is the essence of the burden that the lord has put on my heart, and it is a very deep concern.

in gratefulness to him for you all,
vic

 

[phil36]

I agree with you VW it is by the power of the Holy Spirit who convicts (god initiates..sorry had to get that in, must be the Calvinist in me lol). so in that instance i certainly agree with you, no doubts about that.

What I ment was that most people dont believe doctrine is important, and say they don't need it, yet the very fact that most Christians will use doctrinal statements (particularly when witnessing to others) in their daily lives. so good doctrine is important, and a doctrinal statement as when we witness will sow seeds.

When you hear a christian witness, a preacher teach/preach you here forms of doctrinal statements.

Thats the point i was making.

Kind regards

Phil