Paster Women?

[Depleted]

Aww! Ohhh! Melita is your daughter in law!
It is funny that he found a woman with a sense of humor like his mother!

A little thick here! I thought they were dating.

Whoops. Just read further, and I'm feeling less dense. lol

 

[JesusIsAll]

Our denomination does church-plantings. Committees involved, people live in the area where they want to plant the church, making sure there are enough people and enough elders to get going, and finally they get the building and the resources to keep it going for three years. (If the church doesn't make it after three years, it wasn't meant to be.)

So, what does that have to do with a rural church? The best laid plans of mice and men.

Seven years later, we hear about the church planted in our part of Philly and we went. Who can resist a church that believes like we do and is within walking distance of our home, especially after going great distances to find such a church? (Two miles one way, but I did it on occasion.) The one thing people don't do in our denomination is gossip, so we never found out what happened -- only saw the aftermath. Some kind of argument/split/something that ended with the Teaching Elder (our version of lead pastor -- the man with the degrees and the testing that says he can teach) resigning and half the members leaving.

What was left was two ruling elders (our version of deacons and administrators, but there were probably more before the split) and between 50-70 people including the children. You can't pay a Teaching Elder's salary with that few people.

So we went without one, by asking men throughout the Philadelphia Presbytery to come for Sunday morning service to teach for $300. (Back in the 1990's, but our lives are such that we have no idea how much that is nowadays.) And by teaching, it is assumed he would spend between 35-40 hours studying and preparing for that one message.

Fortunately, four good men volunteered, so each one had a month to find that 35-40 hours to prepare for that message. (They all had full time jobs, and all but one were married, so 35-40 "spare hours" a month versus trying to shove that much time in one week really was a good thing.)

The rest of us did what we are supposed to do -- volunteered to help in the community, go out and evangelize, and help those who needed it -- whether members of the church or not.

Slowly but surely, more came. Unfortunately -- money-wise and future-wise -- as often happens, mostly it was people down and out needing help, so it didn't bring more money in tithes, because most of the congregation didn't have the money to give. We don't ask children to give at all, and about 75% of our congregation was on Disability and/or Welfare -- many with minimum level income. (For instance, one woman who had been disabled at birth and she had just become permanently wheelchair bound, had a ten year old daughter, and the two of them lived on $512 a month -- the minimum for SSDI back then. That tight on money, so we were telling her don't worry about tithing. Some of us were giving her money to help.)

When we joined, we were one of three middle-class families, so one of three helping out by tithing. The church was 150 years old, falling apart and had an old brick basement where mold and mildew collected and rose up into the sanctuary. Hubby and I are both allergic to mold and mildew, (ad the dehumidifier we donated to the church and the ionizer one of those Teaching Elders donated to the church didn't help), so after a third summer of choking when we stayed in the building for more than half an hour, we had to leave.

And they had to give up and close the door within the next 3-9 months.

BUT, if you can't afford a pastor, pay for sermons until you can afford one. I get it -- out in the country. But out in the country also means harder to find work, so I would guess there were men within 30 miles of that church with a willingness and the car to do that. Then the congregation works its way up from there. If it doesn't work out, then, yes. It really does mean close the church. If God's not raising a man to do the job, then it's obvious it's not a job God wants done right there.

I trust God can get what he wants, even way out in the country. That is my "transigent."

I don't know. I wished I'd saved the testimony, was touched by it. This woman grew that little church some, people were saved: it wasn't failed, quite the opposite. I recall one problem was that most of the men weren't that good, as men, husbands more interested in drinking and hunting as a community, but some men came around! All I could think was, "God bless you then, Sister." If Jesus is there, where those are gathered in His name, I'll leave it to somebody else to kick against this, tell them to close their door, kick Jesus out, one must suppose we also should take back the salvation of those brought to the Lord.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Where in the NT did God call any woman to a
NT office?(preacher, elder, ect)

 

[Depleted]

Still waiting on answers to this. Are you hardliners going to just wuss-out on the difficult questions, as usual? Be that way, then,

Why do blondes wash their hair in the sink? Because that's where you're supposed to wash vegetables.​

Yo! I have a busy life. Excuse me for not being here 24/7 (anymore. lol)

And, in a serious note, I really did catch the digs in your request and the continued digs in this. Love the assumption (sarcasm) that if we dare disagree with you we're sissies.

I also find it annoying that people give full sympathy and encouragement for anyone "on their side" of a debate, but anyone on the other side is "a wuss." Sympathy and encouragement is only for a limited set? At least the double-standard isn't confined to male/female only.

 

[Depleted]

they didn't answer my questions either. but i give them the benefit of the doubt. maybe they didn't see them since these pages were flying by.

I did too, but you were searching the cushions for wayward M&M's, so missed it. (BTW, I already dug out and ate the only good M&M's. The ones with peanuts.)

 

[Depleted]

What I think is that our Lord gives us a brief respite when we need rest and refreshing.
Sometimes He closes the mouths of lions.
Sometimes He sends bears to eat those who taunt His chosen.
But when He has given us rest and strengthening, He opens their mouths again because He trains our hands for war!

Yeah, because disagreeing with this minor subject is obviously WAR.

(I do have to wonder what would happen with a required doctrine on here. I wonder because the "wars" are silly minor disputes.)

 

[Depleted]

Shhhh...don't say too much..next they will want to vote and act as if they are humans too...Oppps..too late!......the stupidity of people that don't study the scriptures with the historical and social setting of the time boggles my mind ...it's no wonder people come up with all kinds of strange things.....religious tradition can sometimes be an enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Should we start talking the stupidity of people who judge minor stuff so seriously that they call anyone who disagree "stupidity?"

 

[Depleted]

There are some spiritually acute people on this thread, Sharkwhale has amazed me with his wisdom and spiritual insight for any one any age, and he is only 31. Stunned and AA are others. There is more, but I am not doing a check list here.

Lynn...your just nuts.

Cashew! For the record.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yo! I have a busy life. Excuse me for not being here 24/7 (anymore. lol)

And, in a serious note, I really did catch the digs in your request and the continued digs in this. Love the assumption (sarcasm) that if we dare disagree with you we're sissies.

I also find it annoying that people give full sympathy and encouragement for anyone "on their side" of a debate, but anyone on the other side is "a wuss." Sympathy and encouragement is only for a limited set? At least the double-standard isn't confined to male/female only.

There are many times, many times, the hard question goes unanswered. I repeated this one three times, amidst people condemning of a woman leading a congregation, which I happen to agree with, on Biblical grounds, that a man should pastor. On the other hand, I cannot see it spiritual this church should be shutdown, and the question was avoided, by people who can, otherwise, wrail all day against women. I'm surely here less than you, but I have seen repeated instances where hard questions are wholly avoided, as well as clear scripture to the contrary unanswered. I can't count the times a precise post has been answered with non-sequiturs that avoid the issue, mine and others, people who make all sorts of claims who can't defend their claims. Finally, one person here said the pulpit of that church should be empty, then. I don't find that a good answer, when people have been growing spiritually and have been saved, with no man to fill in the gap. The guy tells me it all comes down to corn cobs. Neither is that so satisfying. I was seeking an answer, clearly from somebody not on my side of this, as a matter of fact, so I don't see where my question had anything to do with my sympathies for this church, which remain, and expecting anybody to agree with me. Simply, the question was completely avoided. Also, the Pharisees were great at letter-of-the-law pontification, often oblivious to righteous judgment.

 

[Depleted]

I'm not ticked off, dear. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion just like every member of this site.

Unfortunately, opinions mean nothing where the Holy Spirit is concerned. Wood, hay & stubble. If the Lord did not reveal a thing to you by His Holy Spirit (as opposed to logic, natural reasoning), it's not of God. It's as simple as that. No man can interpret the Word of God by their own understanding or opinion, or anyone else's opinion for that matter.

Being well known for being blunt doesn't change anything. And it certainly doesn't exalt the meekness of Christ Jesus that you are willing to "tick people off". That's not being submissive to Jesus.

We are all the church, the spiritual body of Christ. That's the truth of God. And here you are suggesting women be silent while you yourself are not silent. You contradict yourself.

Feminism has nothing to do with it. That's all worldly wisdom. We need to either submit our hearts to Christ Jesus alone or we walk in the flesh and believe our opinions are right. That's the only two choices we have: the world or Christ.

Also, if you believe women should be under a man's leadership, sit under Brother Sharkwhales teaching on this thread. He teaches the Word of God with exceptional grace and wisdom.

Funny you say that about opinions, since in the last two pages I've been reading from the other side of the issue that both those who believe that women shouldn't preach are pigheaded, (I know what intransigent means), wusses, cold legalists, trolls, stupid, and Pharisees, but hey, it's just "opinion."

We're not contradicting ourselves. We don't believe women should always be silent. We should be silent during service.

And silence has absolutely nothing to do with if a woman should be a pastor. (But, hey, I'm pigheaded, a wuss, a cold legalist, a troll, stupid and a legalist, so who will listen to me?)

 

[Elizabeth619]

There are many times, many times, the hard question goes unanswered. I repeated this one three times, amidst people condemning of a woman leading a congregation, which I happen to agree with, on Biblical grounds, that a man should pastor. On the other hand, I cannot see it spiritual this church should be shutdown, and the question was avoided, by people who can, otherwise, wrail all day against women. I'm surely here less than you, but I have seen repeated instances where hard questions are wholly avoided, as well as clear scripture to the contrary unanswered. I can't count the times a precise post has been answered with non-sequiturs that avoid the issue, mine and others, people who make all sorts of claims who can't defend their claims. Finally, one person here said the pulpit of that church should be empty, then. I don't find that a good answer, when people have been growing spiritually and have been saved, with no man to fill in the gap. The guy tells me it all comes down to corn cobs. Neither is that so satisfying. I was seeking an answer, clearly from somebody not on my side of this, as a matter of fact, so I don't see where my question had anything to do with my sympathies for this church, which remain, and expecting anybody to agree with me. Simply, the question was completely avoided. Also, the Pharisees were great at letter-of-the-law pontification, often oblivious to righteous judgment.

If you are referring to the scenario where a women preaches at a rural church where there are no men elligible to preach the scripture still stands. If she is usurping authority then she cannot preach. We can create scenarios all
day where we think there Is an exception to the rule
of what God commands but scripture will always stand. If a woman is preaching then it is not a true church anyway.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Funny you say that about opinions, since in the last two pages I've been reading from the other side of the issue that both those who believe that women shouldn't preach are pigheaded, (I know what intransigent means), wusses, cold legalists, trolls, stupid, and Pharisees, but hey, it's just "opinion."

We're not contradicting ourselves. We don't believe women should always be silent. We should be silent during service.

And silence has absolutely nothing to do with if a woman should be a pastor. (But, hey, I'm pigheaded, a wuss, a cold legalist, a troll, stupid and a legalist, so who will listen to me?)

I love you. You are cracking me up!

 

[Depleted]

That happens all the time with a divorce or when the pastor dies. Whole church falls apart because it all hung on one man.

It's a lousy church if it's "all hung on one man."

 

[Depleted]

Wrong. This church, in a poor community, sought a man pastor for years, prayed about it, advertised. Nobody has a scintilla of motivation of lording women over men: they desired a man to pastor. You know what you just did? You made that lording thing up, not knowing anything about this church, just slandered them, out of the blue.

Anyway, I'll pass on your corn cob analogy, doesn't seem to me your corn eating habits of much inspired weight, any more than making up stuff about other people and judging those you don't even know. I do see how you'd find it feasible, though, to congregate in a church where nobody speaks the things of God, one can only suppose congregating to compare can openers and brands of corn.

Oh brother! You are just so full of yourself today. Don't tell the whole story, make an announcement that anyone who disagrees with you is intransigent AND wusses, and then the second someone dares to disagree pretend like you were innocent by telling the rest of the story.

Same BDF -- different year.

Cockadoodling all over your roost!

Yeah, the church should shut down. If there are no men of God there, then it's not of God. (Which is beginning to make me think the same thing of this forum, if you're the big man of God.)

 

[JesusIsAll]

If you are referring to the scenario where a women preaches at a rural church where there are no men elligible to preach the scripture still stands. If she is usurping authority then she cannot preach. We can create scenarios all
day where we think there Is an exception to the rule
of what God commands but scripture will always stand. If a woman is preaching then it is not a true church anyway.

Whose authority is she usurping? What man, when there is no man to take up the task? But, now that we've reached the penalty phase one supposes, should we just consign those who were saved in that congregation to the lake of fire, pray the Lord unborn again them, or are you just convinced they aren't saved, despite their testimony? It puzzles me how anybody could find even one soul spared eternal damnation as not having been worthwhile. But that's my problem, that I like things to make sense and jive with a truly righteous perspective.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Whose authority is she usurping? What man, when there is no man to take up the task? But, now that we've reached the penalty phase one supposes, should we just consign those who were saved in that congregation to the lake of fire, pray the Lord unborn again them, or are you just convinced they aren't saved, despite their testimony? It puzzles me how anybody could find even one soul spared eternal damnation as not having been worthwhile. But that's my problem, that I like things to make sense and jive with a truly righteous perspective.

If people obeyed the word of God it isn't a hard situation here. You are continuously creating situations where you act asmof
it's ok to go against scripture and it is NEVER ok. If the church cannot find an appropriate minister then they aren't a true church. They are deceived. They need go find a true church and not continue to congregate in sin. If it's wrong it's wrong no matter how you slice it

 

[JesusIsAll]

Oh brother! You are just so full of yourself today. Don't tell the whole story, make an announcement that anyone who disagrees with you is intransigent AND wusses, and then the second someone dares to disagree pretend like you were innocent by telling the rest of the story.

Same BDF -- different year.

Cockadoodling all over your roost!

Yeah, the church should shut down. If there are no men of God there, then it's not of God. (Which is beginning to make me think the same thing of this forum, if you're the big man of God.)

You're being ridiculous. It's not a value judgment, to say somebody is intransigent: it's a state of being fixed, that's all, so that insult falls on illiteracy. As for wuss, yes I said that, because nobody would step up to the question. But I'll not entertain your acidic temperament or any emotional tirade. I explained myself, if you don't like it, try to take it in stride the main difference between you and I is that I am not you, and try not to blow a gasket.

 

[Depleted]

There are many times, many times, the hard question goes unanswered. I repeated this one three times, amidst people condemning of a woman leading a congregation, which I happen to agree with, on Biblical grounds, that a man should pastor. On the other hand, I cannot see it spiritual this church should be shutdown, and the question was avoided, by people who can, otherwise, wrail all day against women. I'm surely here less than you, but I have seen repeated instances where hard questions are wholly avoided, as well as clear scripture to the contrary unanswered. I can't count the times a precise post has been answered with non-sequiturs that avoid the issue, mine and others, people who make all sorts of claims who can't defend their claims. Finally, one person here said the pulpit of that church should be empty, then. I don't find that a good answer, when people have been growing spiritually and have been saved, with no man to fill in the gap. The guy tells me it all comes down to corn cobs. Neither is that so satisfying. I was seeking an answer, clearly from somebody not on my side of this, as a matter of fact, so I don't see where my question had anything to do with my sympathies for this church, which remain, and expecting anybody to agree with me. Simply, the question was completely avoided. Also, the Pharisees were great at letter-of-the-law pontification, often oblivious to righteous judgment.

Sorry, you've lost so much credibility in your last few pages of tirades and self-puffery, including calling a woman a guy.

So, let's get real. What you really object to is people disagreeing with your opinions? Yeah. Got that. Stopped caring somewhere between being called a wuss and a Pharisee. (Stopped caring somewhere last autumn really.) That's not righteous judgement. That's homespun arrogance!

 

[Depleted]

You're being ridiculous. It's not a value judgment, to say somebody is intransigent: it's a state of being fixed, that's all, so that insult falls on illiteracy. As for wuss, yes I said that, because nobody would step up to the question. But I'll not entertain your acidic temperament or any emotional tirade. I explained myself, if you don't like it, try to take it in stride the main difference between you and I is that I am not you, and try not to blow a gasket.

Time for the wading boots!
in·tran·si·gent
inˈtransəjənt,inˈtranzəjənt/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important]adjective: intransigent[/COLOR]

• 1.
  unwilling or refusing to change one's views or to agree about something.
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]uncompromising, inflexible, unbending, unyielding, diehard,unshakable, unwavering, resolute, rigid, unaccommodating,uncooperative, stubborn, obstinate, obdurate, pigheaded, single-minded, iron-willed, stiff-necked"the regime remained intransigent in its opposition to wider participation in the political process"
  
  
  [/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  [TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
  [TR]
  [TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]antonyms:[/TD]
  [TD]compliant[/TD]
  [/TR]
  [/TABLE]
  
  
  
  

noun
[COLOR=#878787 !important]noun: intransigent; plural noun: intransigents[/COLOR]

• 1.
  an intransigent person.
  
  
  

 

[JesusIsAll]

If people obeyed the word of God it isn't a hard situation here. You are continuously creating situations where you act asmof
it's ok to go against scripture and it is NEVER ok. If the church cannot find an appropriate minister then they aren't a true church. They are deceived. They need go find a true church and not continue to congregate in sin. If it's wrong it's wrong no matter how you slice it

This was the testimony of a real church situation, not anything I made up. I have no interest in making anything up. This is senseless, for you to cop to me creating situations. But okay. It's a congregation of sin you say. That's an answer. This is all I'm trying to understand, of those who are expressing some things in a very accusative manner, and I thank you for that answer. I think that, if you are condemning of these people, this one of the answers I suspected behind some of this, and wanted to hear if this is, in fact, the bottom line to some people. That's all. I appreciate your frankness. Anybody else condemning this congregation?