Paster Women?

[JosephsDreams]

Praying is always good. Everyone should agree even women are allowed to do,that. So let is pray.

Dear Heavenly Father, we come before you broken and with heavy heart. Lord we seek your wisdom and know that you will give it to us abundantly.Father God Abba help us to,feel love and compassion for our brothers and sisters in Christ. Help us to bridle,our tongues and seek first Your will before we speak. Let our words be life giving water and not salty seas. Let our hands and feet be used to glorify Your name o God. We pray for all who are called to ministry and ask,that you guide and protect their minds so that they might teach Your words with wisdom from above and not the vain unprofitable wisdom of the world. God we lift up our sister Lynn, her husband pickles and her hubby and all who are suffering physical, emotional or spiritual pain today. You know the hearts and minds of your people. God reveal to us this day Your,will for our lives and encompass us with, Your love and peace. In Jesus Holy name we pray, amen.

Amen. Thank God for that. Thank you my sister. Pray just adjusts our spirits I think just about every new post should start off with pray. I think that would lessen a lot of the negative stuff.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Is it possible that your eyes fool you while her faith saves her?

How are you able to do that in so few words??!

 

[JosephsDreams]

First, it is correct.

Second, no. Eve was still responsible for her sin. Adam just franchised the sin down through to all upcoming generations. BUT, yes, hubby, to a degree, is accountable to my actions. But he is accountable because we do have the marriage where hubby is head, and wife is helpmate, with God ruling over both of us.

It's kind of like Hilary Clinton and our embassy at Benghazi. Hilary did not kill the ambassador and the others. She was, however, responsible for keeping them safe.

I am every bit as intransigent, Pharisaical, aggressive, and stubborn as I appear to be on here. Hubby is very vulnerable now -- still losing blood and stuck in bed learning how to stand again in two buildings full of medical professionals assuming full responsibility over him while not making the most logical, kind choices they could make. (Incompetency has been proven more than once.) I am what I believe the vast majority of women are -- mama bear like. Right now, I want to go busting into that place and give the full weight of my what-for until someone hears him! Grrrrrr!

BUT, he's a grown man and can speak for himself. So, I keep my muzzle on for him.

Once he let me off the leash. (Hey, he also knows I use nothing but words, so I'm safe physically. It's mentally that might catch my grief. lol And yes, I do see I'm mixing my metaphors, unless you're picturing a bear with a muzzle and a leash.) No one was listening to him, he's a bit groggy from the pain meds, so he handed it to me.

He is accountable for me. I am perfectly capable of going ballistic, if he needs me to go there. I'm capable without his approval, but there is enough love and trust that I won't.

That's what Adam had that Eve didn't.

(This reminds me of the shortest poem ever. I believe by Ogden Nash.
Fleas
Adam had 'em.)

Sooo, nuts? Any such thing as an American Brazilian? lol

And, now I really do have to get going. BBL

Since that post about how can you get your husband to exercise, I have been praying for you guys. Stay strong (and weak) in Him.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

How are you able to do that in so few words??!

I wonder if Phil assumes his interpretation of [1 Cor 14:34 & 1 Tim 2:12] is correct -- or if he concludes his interpretation is correct based on evidence.

Makes me think of the parable in Luke:

49John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us." 50But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you."


I can hear modern disciples now: "Master, master! We saw a woman preaching and we tried to stop her because she does not follow along with us. But Jesus said, 'Do not hinder her; for she who is not against you is for you.'"

 

[Ariel82]

Bishop, aka "senior pastor," "Teaching Elder, "Leader of the pack." (Oh wait, I think that last one is a song, but it's kind of like that.)

In my denom, they do the sermons mostly. For the bigger churches within the denomination some of them write books and do radio sermons. (Donald Barnhouse and James Montgomery Boice were two Teaching Elders/"bishops" from our mother church... again, if I had a church, but when I did Boice really was our Teaching Elder for a while. Go ahead and google the names. You might even recognize the names without googling.) The sermon was the main thing they did, but they also had to go to presbyteries. (The name of our denomination specifically because it means gathering, so it's also what we call meetings when the churches in the area come together to make bigger decisions, and what we call the national gathering every year.) They had a voice. They often chose not to use it until something was important enough to speak up about, because when they talked, everyone listened. The American legislature branch was created around the formed used in the presbytery meetings, except for one huge difference. Our Teaching Elders cannot vote! Only Ruling Elders, (aka deacons... sort of), can.

Now our Ruling Elders can give sermons too, but they have their own missions they run, plus come together on the needs of the building and the members of the church. They're also called on to teach Bible classes for the adults, (women or men teach Bible classes for the kids), as well as membership classes. (No one can join until they know what they're joining and agree to the basic principles. And it is the basic principles. Our denomination doesn't believe tongues are for today, yet hubby speaks in tongues. They don't have a problem with that, just as long as hubby knew not to speak tongues during service. Since he usually worships in tongues, he simply chose to worship out loud in English only. So, we have to agree to the basic principles, not the side issues.) And they counsel people, and do what is expected of all members -- volunteer for whatever missionary work they do. And, they do services at people's homes, if the people can't come to church.

Now, although Ruling Elders are kind of like deacons, technically they aren't deacons. Deacons tend to help the widows and orphans. (Our Ruling Elders do that too, but it's not their main focus.) There is controversy in my church. Not about deacons, but deaconess. Frankly, they don't think women should be deaconess. That one caused a divide with us and another branch of Presbys. That was our split.

But, by nature, I am a deaconess, and did the job of a deaconess with the knowledge of the Elders. (Actually I worked with one of those elders. lol) So, yo? Don't want to give me the title? Okay. Really not a problem as long as I can keep doing what God has me do.

(And, sure enough, not much later I became disabled, so can't do that anymore. I take that as a sign from God not to do that anymore. lol)

That's just to give you an idea of how my denomination settles these issues. As already stated, I'm still amazed how many other ways other folks handle these issues.

The same logic that allows you to be a deaconness would allow for women pastors, because it says "husband of one wife" for both.

The head is not the lead pastor but Christ...I attend a Methodist church and they ordain women pastors.

I think a good pastor requires more than being male or female and without strong men and women lead by the Holy Spirit the church will fall.

The pastor told me that a preacher is not a pastor because one just gets up and gives a sermon, but a pastor takes care of the sheep. He was Baptist and believed that a pastor should be married because he needed his wife's help with the female sheep.

It made sense to me because it was a small church.

My current church has a senior pastor and two assistant pastors. One of the assistants is a woman and she preaches great sermons and they co teach the new members class.

This debate can spiral down and some folks are kind of offensive about it but in the end it's just a distraction to take the focus off of God and what He wants us to do.

 

[JosephsDreams]

After reading that article, it seems to me that it hangs more on the principal of family and relationship then a church building.
When I have a problem thinking through something, I pray, do some research, and give it some thought. I have found that for me what works a lot of times is to boil it down to the family structure, that being the foundation of society. Something God put in place as such. God being a God of family, and relationship, to me that is the essence of these type of things.
I use it a lot with government. Like with the principle of health care. Health care is good. I would aid someone in my family that needed help, I would sacrifice, but I understand there is a finite amount of resources, but they need to understand there is only so much I can do given whatever restraints I have, and they have to do what they can to pitch in, whatever that may be. After the spirit of doing ones best is more important to me then the actual performance.
So if God made both woman and men to have peer co equality in raising a family, why would that not extend to any area of life where similar circumstances present it self.
A home church, Sunday school, continues in that vein, so how is brick and mortar building is going to change a Godly principle?

 

[JosephsDreams]

The pastor taking care of the sheep, while biblical, can be abused by some pastors. Some use it as a justification to lord it over people. It can sometimes slid into cult-ish type behavior.

 

[coby]

After reading that article, it seems to me that it hangs more on the principal of family and relationship then a church building.
When I have a problem thinking through something, I pray, do some research, and give it some thought. I have found that for me what works a lot of times is to boil it down to the family structure, that being the foundation of society. Something God put in place as such. God being a God of family, and relationship, to me that is the essence of these type of things.
I use it a lot with government. Like with the principle of health care. Health care is good. I would aid someone in my family that needed help, I would sacrifice, but I understand there is a finite amount of resources, but they need to understand there is only so much I can do given whatever restraints I have, and they have to do what they can to pitch in, whatever that may be. After the spirit of doing ones best is more important to me then the actual performance.
So if God made both woman and men to have peer co equality in raising a family, why would that not extend to any area of life where similar circumstances present it self.
A home church, Sunday school, continues in that vein, so how is brick and mortar building is going to change a Godly principle?

In a home the man is the head, but I never heard someone say the wife can't do anything or has to shut up. And what if there is no man? Give the kids to a family with 2 parents, because women must shut up?

 

[melita916]

i'm gonna describe an awfully specific scenario, but it just came to mind.

i was on fb, and someone shared a video clip of a woman preaching at a women's conference. no biggie. now, the video footage is done professionally. it's not someone who used a cell phone to record the clip. now, i can't see the camera people, but i'm thinking there's maybe a guy or 2 here and there helping with it. maybe there are guys helping with lights and sound. in other words, men are present, but it's a women's conference. so... is it acceptable for a woman to preach/lead/teach because it's a women's conference although men are present?

what if a pastor of a church decides to drive the church van/bus to take the ladies from his congregation to a women's conference? does he stay outside?

i know i know. specific scenarios.

 

[Ariel82]

Straw man melita, no one objects to men being present or women teaching women.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

i'm gonna describe an awfully specific scenario, but it just came to mind.

i was on fb, and someone shared a video clip of a woman preaching at a women's conference. no biggie. now, the video footage is done professionally. it's not someone who used a cell phone to record the clip. now, i can't see the camera people, but i'm thinking there's maybe a guy or 2 here and there helping with it. maybe there are guys helping with lights and sound. in other words, men are present, but it's a women's conference. so... is it acceptable for a woman to preach/lead/teach because it's a women's conference although men are present?

what if a pastor of a church decides to drive the church van/bus to take the ladies from his congregation to a women's conference? does he stay outside?

i know i know. specific scenarios.

If the woman teacher was Beth Moore, he should wait outside unless he wants to be crying like the women when she teaches about Gods love for us!

 

[coby]

i'm gonna describe an awfully specific scenario, but it just came to mind.

i was on fb, and someone shared a video clip of a woman preaching at a women's conference. no biggie. now, the video footage is done professionally. it's not someone who used a cell phone to record the clip. now, i can't see the camera people, but i'm thinking there's maybe a guy or 2 here and there helping with it. maybe there are guys helping with lights and sound. in other words, men are present, but it's a women's conference. so... is it acceptable for a woman to preach/lead/teach because it's a women's conference although men are present?

what if a pastor of a church decides to drive the church van/bus to take the ladies from his congregation to a women's conference? does he stay outside?

i know i know. specific scenarios.

Bring him some cookies, coffee and a blanket if it's cold outside.

 

[notuptome]

Wow great resource if one needs to rationalize behavior that excludes God.

I will be cold inside and outside if you reject Gods order in the family or in the church. Broken families are the result of the curse of sin. Broken churches are resulting from the same cause. God is grieved in both cases.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

I think this is a great article on the topic--what say you?

https://redeeminggod.com/women-to-preach-in-church-or-pastor/
View attachment 146209

Wow! When we agree we agree!!! That was an excellent post brother. Thanks for sharing. It puts the issue to rest once and for all. This thread should be closed with the sharing of this post, its dead on.

 

[phil112]

I wonder if Phil assumes his interpretation of [1 Cor 14:34 & 1 Tim 2:12] is correct -- or if he concludes his interpretation is correct based on evidence.................................

I assume nothing about bible doctrine, nor do I conclude anything based on "my interpretation".
It isn't my interpretation. The bible is not subject to private interpretation. Its meaning is the same for all of us.
I read and pray daily. What I know about Gods word His spirit reveals to me.

And I have never tried to stop a woman from preaching. It is disingenuous for you to suggest that I did or do.
I have brought bible, and bible only to this topic.

For the life of me I can't figure out why I keep dropping back in on it. I guess it's kind of like a trainwreck, just human nature to gawk at the mess.
It has turned into a bunch of glad handing and back slapping by people that discount Paul's authority.
If there is one thing I don't get about people that claim to be christians, it is that they accept what Christ said when it's in red, but they summarily dismiss it when Paul repeats Christ's instruction to him on what to preach.
They think part of the bible is good, but 3 pages later it is all about ancient custom or how the church supposedly was then, that it has no bearing or meaning for them now. They include the scriptures about all scripture being profitable for doctrine..well, unless it benefits their particular slant.
While I am sometimes amazed at the hypocrisy, I remember the same attitude put obama in the white house and endorses hillary.

 

[Ariel82]

Are you implying that if you supported Obama or Hillary, you are a hypocrite?

Your last statement kind of belies the one that says you bring only the Bible to the conversation....

 

[hornetguy]

The bible is not subject to private interpretation.

I don't know who came up with that little bit of "wisdom" but I'm about sick of hearing it.

We are supposed to interpret what we read, and apply it to our lives. It's done with the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit of God, and if we prayerfully ask for guidance, we will receive it.

If someone goes strictly by what the Bible says, then an alcoholic would have to drink some wine, for the sake of his health, as Paul instructed Timothy.

What about a person that has a conscientious objection to eating pork? Who cares why, it just violates their conscience. The Word says to go ahead and eat anything, even pork. Should that person not "interpret" the scripture to understand that he should not, if it violates his conscience?

Of COURSE people read and interpret the Bible... as it should be.

 

[Ariel82]

It's from the Bible hornetguy....and the other two can be answered from the Bible too.

However folks forget that Satan used the Bible to tempt Jesus in the desert. It takes more than words to understand God's will..it takes His Holy Spirit.

 

[kaylagrl]

I assume nothing about bible doctrine, nor do I conclude anything based on "my interpretation".
It isn't my interpretation. The bible is not subject to private interpretation. Its meaning is the same for all of us.
I read and pray daily. What I know about Gods word His spirit reveals to me.

And I have never tried to stop a woman from preaching. It is disingenuous for you to suggest that I did or do.
I have brought bible, and bible only to this topic.

For the life of me I can't figure out why I keep dropping back in on it. I guess it's kind of like a trainwreck, just human nature to gawk at the mess.
It has turned into a bunch of glad handing and back slapping by people that discount Paul's authority.
If there is one thing I don't get about people that claim to be christians, it is that they accept what Christ said when it's in red, but they summarily dismiss it when Paul repeats Christ's instruction to him on what to preach.
They think part of the bible is good, but 3 pages later it is all about ancient custom or how the church supposedly was then, that it has no bearing or meaning for them now. They include the scriptures about all scripture being profitable for doctrine..well, unless it benefits their particular slant.
While I am sometimes amazed at the hypocrisy, I remember the same attitude put obama in the white house and endorses hillary.

You need to read the link that PW posted. I think it is a very good article on the issue. I'd like to know your opinion of it.

 

[Ariel82]

You need to read the link that PW posted. I think it is a very good article on the issue. I'd like to know your opinion of it.

I didn't like the article. Uses tactics seen in this thread based on emotion and not logic or clear understanding of opposing sides position.