A Post for Addicts -- scolding not welcomed

[Depleted]

Back in the 1970's I wanted to quit doing drugs, but didn't know how. Yes, I was a believer, but God doesn't give a step-by-step direction manual on how to quit any given sin, so I still didn't know how. BUT God is, and God is who he says he is, so events (some the exact opposite of "pleasant") and friends and circumstances all hit in God's very-different kind of way, and within two months of wanting, finally, to quit, I was in a rehab that I could afford. (Free, although working off the debt was part of the cost.)

And because God is, and who he says he is, and omnipotent I graduated that program. It wasn't easy. (About the exact opposite of "easy" as that could get too.) But, through his grace and strength I graduated. And I was the only one of my class to graduate. (Absolutely everyone I started with and struggled with got high and went back to the lifestyle within those 9 months, so I really know how precious what God gave me is.)

40 years later, and I've been to that same place with smoking cigs. I have done the research, the praying, the planning, the scheming, the praying, the asking advice, the listening to advice, the praying, and everything else there is to prepare to quit. (BTW, advice from nonsmokers is useless. "Just quit" is useless, at least to those of us addicted this much. If it was a "just," we would have quit back when a carton went over $10.)

And I implemented all of what I needed more than once and failed more than once. More than three times in the last year. More than once since the beginning of this month.

I'm desperate. Honestly I thought the smoking might kill me, but I always pictured a sudden heart attack or rapid cancer, so the killing me part wouldn't take that long. Definitely a shorter time than I've already spent trying to figure out how to quit, so why bother? And then hubby. He proved what I thought was in Lynnie LaLaLand, and I really, REALLY need to quit.

Having exhausted all advice from all the ex-smokers in my life, (which comes down to "just quit. I did," but not one of them got violently sick on that first day they did quit cold turkey like I did, so that's hanging over me too), I just took the absolute last step I could think to do. There's a website online that coaches people how to quit. I just talked to them. Something no one taught me in all my research. The craving only last for ten minutes.

Yeah, I know ten minutes will feel like ten hours, but I can do something for a mere ten minutes knowing the craving subsides a bit afterward. (Sounds stupid, but my old goal was to simply last half an hour, and for my reward, I get a cigarette.)

BUT someone just taught me the things I needed to know, and is helping to arm me against getting violent sick too. (Patches and lozenges.)

Sooo, I know I'm not the only addict on here, and I was thinking it might be a good idea if we started a thread so we can help each other with real advice on how to fight off those moments when we're working at quitting.

Anyone interested?

I do know what I'm not interested in -- other folks telling us how evil we are or telling us "you just..." Addicts! We already tried the "you justs" from non addicts. They don't work!

So, I'm opening this up to any addiction, because, even though I haven't had all addictions, I suspect I'm not the only one struggling with an addiction, and maybe if we came together we might find someone who did struggle with that addiction and can give valid advice on ways to cope ourselves right out of it with God's help. If we don't know, we can't do, even with God's help. I think if we learn, we can do with God's help.

And to the addicts, if you know nothing about being addicted to X, then don't advice on X. It's okay to know how to quit one thing and help others in that one thing, but don't think it's the same thing in all addictions. I know for a fact craving drugs lasted longer than 10 minutes, so I'm not going to say craving porn only last ten minutes. I don't know anything about that addiction, so can't help with that. So please help only for the addiction you know. It's okay not to know everything.


(My quit date is May 2nd, so I want to apologize now when I go off the deep end of emotional

in those first couple of weeks. lol)

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Have you tried fasting? No food for 2-3 days just purified water with drops of lemon juice. I heard it can help with the craving for those who want to quit. But if you are diabetic, its not advisable. Its not impossible many have succeeded in quitting though we are not really sure how deeply they were addicted.

My mother died from lung cancer but still smoked in her last days and my father got tuberculosis twice because of smoking but still did not quit and still struggling with quitting. That's why I really hate cigarettes. May you win your battle.

 

[PennEd]

I definitely think you're on to something with the 10 minute wait thing.

I have always been active, but 5-10 yrs ago the weight started to accumulate on me. I was never obese, but heading in that direction. Since exercise wasn't the issue, I knew it was the calories in part that was making me bigger.

2 strategies worked for me to drop about 50lbs in under 6 months.

The 1st was competition. I'm by nature way too competetive. (working on it) but I used that weakness as a strength, and challenged a beefy neighbor of mine to a "friendly" weight loss game.

The 2nd was I discovered that while I'm eating, I'm literally thinking about what I'm gonna eat as soon as I'm done eating what was on my plate!

If I merely waited 10-15 minutes I realized that my brain had recieved the signal from my stomach that it was full and I wasn't hungry anymore.

Not sure if this story helps but I'll be praying for you. Good Luck!

 

[kaylagrl]

Back in the 1970's I wanted to quit doing drugs, but didn't know how. Yes, I was a believer, but God doesn't give a step-by-step direction manual on how to quit any given sin, so I still didn't know how. BUT God is, and God is who he says he is, so events (some the exact opposite of "pleasant") and friends and circumstances all hit in God's very-different kind of way, and within two months of wanting, finally, to quit, I was in a rehab that I could afford. (Free, although working off the debt was part of the cost.)

And because God is, and who he says he is, and omnipotent I graduated that program. It wasn't easy. (About the exact opposite of "easy" as that could get too.) But, through his grace and strength I graduated. And I was the only one of my class to graduate. (Absolutely everyone I started with and struggled with got high and went back to the lifestyle within those 9 months, so I really know how precious what God gave me is.)

40 years later, and I've been to that same place with smoking cigs. I have done the research, the praying, the planning, the scheming, the praying, the asking advice, the listening to advice, the praying, and everything else there is to prepare to quit. (BTW, advice from nonsmokers is useless. "Just quit" is useless, at least to those of us addicted this much. If it was a "just," we would have quit back when a carton went over $10.)

And I implemented all of what I needed more than once and failed more than once. More than three times in the last year. More than once since the beginning of this month.

I'm desperate. Honestly I thought the smoking might kill me, but I always pictured a sudden heart attack or rapid cancer, so the killing me part wouldn't take that long. Definitely a shorter time than I've already spent trying to figure out how to quit, so why bother? And then hubby. He proved what I thought was in Lynnie LaLaLand, and I really, REALLY need to quit.

Having exhausted all advice from all the ex-smokers in my life, (which comes down to "just quit. I did," but not one of them got violently sick on that first day they did quit cold turkey like I did, so that's hanging over me too), I just took the absolute last step I could think to do. There's a website online that coaches people how to quit. I just talked to them. Something no one taught me in all my research. The craving only last for ten minutes.

Yeah, I know ten minutes will feel like ten hours, but I can do something for a mere ten minutes knowing the craving subsides a bit afterward. (Sounds stupid, but my old goal was to simply last half an hour, and for my reward, I get a cigarette.)

BUT someone just taught me the things I needed to know, and is helping to arm me against getting violent sick too. (Patches and lozenges.)

Sooo, I know I'm not the only addict on here, and I was thinking it might be a good idea if we started a thread so we can help each other with real advice on how to fight off those moments when we're working at quitting.

Anyone interested?

I do know what I'm not interested in -- other folks telling us how evil we are or telling us "you just..." Addicts! We already tried the "you justs" from non addicts. They don't work!

So, I'm opening this up to any addiction, because, even though I haven't had all addictions, I suspect I'm not the only one struggling with an addiction, and maybe if we came together we might find someone who did struggle with that addiction and can give valid advice on ways to cope ourselves right out of it with God's help. If we don't know, we can't do, even with God's help. I think if we learn, we can do with God's help.

And to the addicts, if you know nothing about being addicted to X, then don't advice on X. It's okay to know how to quit one thing and help others in that one thing, but don't think it's the same thing in all addictions. I know for a fact craving drugs lasted longer than 10 minutes, so I'm not going to say craving porn only last ten minutes. I don't know anything about that addiction, so can't help with that. So please help only for the addiction you know. It's okay not to know everything.


(My quit date is May 2nd, so I want to apologize now when I go off the deep end of emotional

in those first couple of weeks. lol)

Well I was about to make a joke and thought better of it. I think this is a serious matter. I'm not a smoker so I can't sympathize, but I can empathize.

When I met my husband he was a smoker. It was hard for me because no one in my family were smokers and I grew up in a church where smoking was considered a sin. But I thought a lot of him and we continued dating. When I introduced him to my family they wanted to "pray the smoking" out of him. I told them to shut it up and leave the subject alone. I have never nagged him,or even mentioned it. When he brings the subject up I say I want him to live a long life so we can grow old together. I pray privately for him but never mention it. Well before I knew it he called me one night before we married and said he had cut back on smoking. I told him I was proud of him. Once we married he began to buy just enough to get him through the week, 2 packs, which he use to smoke each day. He went and bought the vapor thingy and its helping him even more. I keep telling him how proud I am of him but leave it at that.


Anyway my point is that you are trying and you are doing your best. Many people quit several times before it "takes". I've heard people say that if they have something they can hold in their hand that it helps mentally to trick the mind.I hope you can find something that will work for you. Dont get discouraged, you can win the battle.

 

[Ultimatum77]

Back in the 1970's I wanted to quit doing drugs, but didn't know how. Yes, I was a believer, but God doesn't give a step-by-step direction manual on how to quit any given sin, so I still didn't know how. BUT God is, and God is who he says he is, so events (some the exact opposite of "pleasant") and friends and circumstances all hit in God's very-different kind of way, and within two months of wanting, finally, to quit, I was in a rehab that I could afford. (Free, although working off the debt was part of the cost.)

And because God is, and who he says he is, and omnipotent I graduated that program. It wasn't easy. (About the exact opposite of "easy" as that could get too.) But, through his grace and strength I graduated. And I was the only one of my class to graduate. (Absolutely everyone I started with and struggled with got high and went back to the lifestyle within those 9 months, so I really know how precious what God gave me is.)

40 years later, and I've been to that same place with smoking cigs. I have done the research, the praying, the planning, the scheming, the praying, the asking advice, the listening to advice, the praying, and everything else there is to prepare to quit. (BTW, advice from nonsmokers is useless. "Just quit" is useless, at least to those of us addicted this much. If it was a "just," we would have quit back when a carton went over $10.)

And I implemented all of what I needed more than once and failed more than once. More than three times in the last year. More than once since the beginning of this month.

I'm desperate. Honestly I thought the smoking might kill me, but I always pictured a sudden heart attack or rapid cancer, so the killing me part wouldn't take that long. Definitely a shorter time than I've already spent trying to figure out how to quit, so why bother? And then hubby. He proved what I thought was in Lynnie LaLaLand, and I really, REALLY need to quit.

Having exhausted all advice from all the ex-smokers in my life, (which comes down to "just quit. I did," but not one of them got violently sick on that first day they did quit cold turkey like I did, so that's hanging over me too), I just took the absolute last step I could think to do. There's a website online that coaches people how to quit. I just talked to them. Something no one taught me in all my research. The craving only last for ten minutes.

Yeah, I know ten minutes will feel like ten hours, but I can do something for a mere ten minutes knowing the craving subsides a bit afterward. (Sounds stupid, but my old goal was to simply last half an hour, and for my reward, I get a cigarette.)

BUT someone just taught me the things I needed to know, and is helping to arm me against getting violent sick too. (Patches and lozenges.)

Sooo, I know I'm not the only addict on here, and I was thinking it might be a good idea if we started a thread so we can help each other with real advice on how to fight off those moments when we're working at quitting.

Anyone interested?

I do know what I'm not interested in -- other folks telling us how evil we are or telling us "you just..." Addicts! We already tried the "you justs" from non addicts. They don't work!

So, I'm opening this up to any addiction, because, even though I haven't had all addictions, I suspect I'm not the only one struggling with an addiction, and maybe if we came together we might find someone who did struggle with that addiction and can give valid advice on ways to cope ourselves right out of it with God's help. If we don't know, we can't do, even with God's help. I think if we learn, we can do with God's help.

And to the addicts, if you know nothing about being addicted to X, then don't advice on X. It's okay to know how to quit one thing and help others in that one thing, but don't think it's the same thing in all addictions. I know for a fact craving drugs lasted longer than 10 minutes, so I'm not going to say craving porn only last ten minutes. I don't know anything about that addiction, so can't help with that. So please help only for the addiction you know. It's okay not to know everything.


(My quit date is May 2nd, so I want to apologize now when I go off the deep end of emotional

in those first couple of weeks. lol)

I don't know if you are aware of this but a temporary step down solution other than (gums, patches, and lozenges) would be to use what is called an "e-cigarette" it allows similar nicotine "hit" if you will without the nasty tars and carinogens in regular cigarettes and dispenses the nicotine in a "vapor" so they call it vaping instead of smoking...

https://quitsmokingcommunity.org/electronic-cigarettes/

Again, it is not trying to "boost" your addiction but take it down step by step till you don't crave a cigarette, then you don't crave an e-cigarette, then your finally free.

Check out some of the brands on the above website, and talk to your doctor if e-cigs may be a way for you to step down from real cigarettes and then step down from e-cigs to no cigs by using gums, lozenges, patches etc....

 

[coby2]

I have to stop taking nicotine chewing gum.
I just took that instead and asked forgiveness for the smoking and kicked a smoke demon out. I also changed my false belief that I needed it into another false belief that I need chewing gum and that it has the exact same effect. hmmmm not very helpful I'm afraid.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I never smoked. So I can't comment on this directly.
But I know someone who stopped using hypnosis.

 

[coby2]

and when you have quitted but something happens so you get angry and buy a pack, don't think that now immediately you are addicted again.

 

[Ultimatum77]

I once met a Christian woman with a bad smoking habit and when I asked her why she gave me the craziest answer ever:

"She can't quit smoking because she's on fire for Jesus"

I was shocked silly and laughed so hard......she had some crazy sarcasm.....

 

[coby2]

Ah.. I just read the answer. Heard this from others too who stopped:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/134170-god-your-strength.html

 

[Depleted]

Have you tried fasting? No food for 2-3 days just purified water with drops of lemon juice. I heard it can help with the craving for those who want to quit. But if you are diabetic, its not advisable. Its not impossible many have succeeded in quitting though we are not really sure how deeply they were addicted.

My mother died from lung cancer but still smoked in her last days and my father got tuberculosis twice because of smoking but still did not quit and still struggling with quitting. That's why I really hate cigarettes. May you win your battle.

I really appreciate you're offering help and encouragement. I think that is so kind and Christlike, but here's the problem. One of the things addicts hear lots of when addicted is the horror stories and the helpful advice. I started smoking four years after seeing the cancer on Mom's body, (it looked like a build up of freckles, but no one has that many freckles), right before she died. She was a smoker. I know what it looked like and yet I started anyway.

Telling an addict why the addiction is bad for us really doesn't change our minds.

The following verses are about all sin, including addictions.

John 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

Parts of us are still in that spot. Coming to terms with the Light is something each of us, in the Lord, has to go though eventually despite that.

You're trying to logic out that which isn't logical. Addiction isn't logical. Quitting is, but none of us will until God gets it through to us and then we are armed to do it. (And TB isn't caused by tobacco, even if smoking with TB shows how bad we addicts are. The thing I hated most about bronchitis was how hard it was to get a good puff. It's really, really not logical.)

We need help from folks who know how they did it. Different methods that might work doesn't help.

And I say that with true love and appreciation that you want to help, but I'd rather not load this thread up with lots of home-grown advice that may or may not work. We'll need others who have gone through it or are arming to go through with it.

 

[Depleted]

I definitely think you're on to something with the 10 minute wait thing.

I have always been active, but 5-10 yrs ago the weight started to accumulate on me. I was never obese, but heading in that direction. Since exercise wasn't the issue, I knew it was the calories in part that was making me bigger.

2 strategies worked for me to drop about 50lbs in under 6 months.

The 1st was competition. I'm by nature way too competetive. (working on it) but I used that weakness as a strength, and challenged a beefy neighbor of mine to a "friendly" weight loss game.

The 2nd was I discovered that while I'm eating, I'm literally thinking about what I'm gonna eat as soon as I'm done eating what was on my plate!

If I merely waited 10-15 minutes I realized that my brain had recieved the signal from my stomach that it was full and I wasn't hungry anymore.

Not sure if this story helps but I'll be praying for you. Good Luck!

From my drug addiction days, I did learn replacing an addiction with a good addiction is effective. I'm also addicted to competition too. (Although I'd rather it be a sit-and-do then physical exercise. Monopoly anyone? I'm competitive enough that Monopoly only takes 45 minutes when I play. lol) So you replaced the one addiction with another in a positive way. That does work.

I replaced the drugs with helping others at first. When it was time to leave the program, I then replaced it with crafts. To this day, I'm still addicted to crafting. I had to give up some of that to roll my own cigs. (What? You think I can afford $60 a carton? No way. Rolling is much cheaper, although time consuming.) I do plan to replace RYO (roll-your-own) with drawing again. I hope with all those freed up hours, I can illustrate my own novel. (It takes me roughly 2-4 months per illustration, but without smoking, it ought to be faster. Even if it's not, I will use it instead of wasting it RYOing.)

I also learned this morning when talking to a counselor, it's something like what I do now for my chronic pain -- focus on something deeply enough to stop focusing on wanting the cig (or how much I hurt.)

I think I may have just found a way to clean the whole house before John comes home. I might even get to washing the nicotine off of all the walls.

 

[coby2]

What Grace777x70 said. He stopped smoking. He first used some nicotin chewing gum but got rid of that too. That's inspiring.
Harold Hill just gave up. He said Lord I don't even know if I want to stop. Heard it from others too. Give up. You can't stop. You don't even want to. But He can work the wanting in you and He can make you stop. Lord deliver me of this body of sin!!! Then He can do it. I didn't crave the smoke anymore when I stopped. Just chose to stop and gave up and let Him do it. Still I am now too afraid to let go of the chewing gum, esp. once a month, because I may not get irritated. A preacher said it's comfort. As a baby when we cried they stuck something in our mouth. But now we have the Comforter. I must learn to trust Him now to let go of the chewing gum.

 

[Depleted]

Well I was about to make a joke and thought better of it. I think this is a serious matter. I'm not a smoker so I can't sympathize, but I can empathize.

When I met my husband he was a smoker. It was hard for me because no one in my family were smokers and I grew up in a church where smoking was considered a sin. But I thought a lot of him and we continued dating. When I introduced him to my family they wanted to "pray the smoking" out of him. I told them to shut it up and leave the subject alone. I have never nagged him,or even mentioned it. When he brings the subject up I say I want him to live a long life so we can grow old together. I pray privately for him but never mention it. Well before I knew it he called me one night before we married and said he had cut back on smoking. I told him I was proud of him. Once we married he began to buy just enough to get him through the week, 2 packs, which he use to smoke each day. He went and bought the vapor thingy and its helping him even more. I keep telling him how proud I am of him but leave it at that.


Anyway my point is that you are trying and you are doing your best. Many people quit several times before it "takes". I've heard people say that if they have something they can hold in their hand that it helps mentally to trick the mind.I hope you can find something that will work for you. Dont get discouraged, you can win the battle.

Was that comment you held back something like, "How will we know the difference between how crazy you are now and how crazy you'll be in May?" I've been waiting for it. I've been expecting it.

Yeah, it really is okay to joke about it, especially when there is truth in the joke. (Might not be wise on May 4th, but safe now. lol)

And, thank you. You're right. Hubby and I never discourage or nag each other when we both know the other person is doing something that puts them in danger. One of the things that frees me to quit is knowing he won't leave me, hate me, or tsk-tsk me if I can't. He quit the hard way -- heart attack. But we both tried quitting and both failed before then, so we won't nag.

But in encouraging, he has also helped me with another addiction I have, but can't simply quit -- food. Because he doesn't nag, but he's so very proud of me when I lose weight, I have been freed to lose weight too. 50 pounds in a mere 35 months. My strategy then was to quit thinking it was a diet. I simply ate a little less than before to the point of oh-so-slowly dropping the weight. Lifestyle -- not diet. (And then hubby goes off and loses 92 pounds in four months, but again, the hardest way possible. He doesn't recommend his way to end two addictions he had -- smoking and eating. lol)

Definitely wise words you've given as the loved one of an ex-addict. (And I do believe in ex-addicts. I have to take pain pills now, but I'm no longer a druggie. When God frees, sometimes he really frees. And hubby is the opposite. He's still an alcoholic. He had to give up all alcohol, because his kind of addiction is the kind that says, "Once I start, I can't quit, so don't start." Some are truly freed and others have to guard after getting freed. He hasn't had alcohol since the 1980's, but he is an alcoholic.) Love the person no matter what, so the person feels safe to quit, and safe to fail while trying. Love the person and they will start trusting that love enough to get freed. (Works for loved ones, and works with God. Once I knew God didn't hate me, I was also freer to quit.)

 

[Tinkerbell725]

Fasting actually cures a lot of problems. Not only physical problems but also spiritual. I did not mean to make you feel bad, I just remembered my parents struggle with smoking and how I hate cigarettes and wanted to express it. Sorry if it made you feel bad.

 

[Depleted]

I have to stop taking nicotine chewing gum.
I just took that instead and asked forgiveness for the smoking and kicked a smoke demon out. I also changed my false belief that I needed it into another false belief that I need chewing gum and that it has the exact same effect. hmmmm not very helpful I'm afraid.

When Mom became pregnant the first time, the baby stole much of her calcium, particularly from her teeth. In the nine months it took my brother to grow in her, he destroyed all her teeth. ($2000 worth of dental bills back in the early 1950's. A five-bedroom house cost $20,000, just to give perspective how much money that was.) So we grew up with her set of rules all based on saving our teeth and what she did for her bad habits: Don't drink Pepsi, don't chew gum, and don't smoke.

Like all self-respecting kids, I didn't listen. I drank Pepsi, started smoking, and... well, chewing gum was the only one I listened to, so I hate gum. Go figure. lol (Why I'm going for lozenges, instead of the gum. And I hate mint too, so I know I can give up the lozenges when it's time to.)

 

[Depleted]

and when you have quitted but something happens so you get angry and buy a pack, don't think that now immediately you are addicted again.

Amen! AND, you don't have to smoke all the cigs in the pack, simply because you bought it. If we're full, we'll throw out the last few bites of a sandwich without guilt. Think of the pack as too much sandwich. You weren't as hungry as you thought.

 

[coby2]

When Mom became pregnant the first time, the baby stole much of her calcium, particularly from her teeth. In the nine months it took my brother to grow in her, he destroyed all her teeth. ($2000 worth of dental bills back in the early 1950's. A five-bedroom house cost $20,000, just to give perspective how much money that was.) So we grew up with her set of rules all based on saving our teeth and what she did for her bad habits: Don't drink Pepsi, don't chew gum, and don't smoke.

Like all self-respecting kids, I didn't listen. I drank Pepsi, started smoking, and... well, chewing gum was the only one I listened to, so I hate gum. Go figure. lol (Why I'm going for lozenges, instead of the gum. And I hate mint too, so I know I can give up the lozenges when it's time to.)

Hey yhat's an idea. Lozenges. Those aren't tasty. I was addicted to normal chewing gum already, that's why I take too much of the nicotine things. Well addicted, I went to a dentist after 12 years and since then I have this hole I want to fill up with chewing gum since it's annoying. When I see myself on a movie, oh horrible, the whole day I eat chewing gum.

 

[psalm6819]

I'll try to quit with you. I've quit a couple times but I'm not going to quit quitting. I'm thinking rationing. The patches gave me some kind of breakout and the gum makes my gums numb.

Years ago I had like electric accu not puncture but an electronic stimulation, with my Dr (He's an MD but suprisingly open minded)
it cured the craving but after six months and to many stressors I started again.

I'm trying to be realistic I don't think that I can just quit cold turkey.

Think rationing and gradually cutting down could work?

 

[Depleted]

Fasting actually cures a lot of problems. Not only physical problems but also spiritual. I did not mean to make you feel bad, I just remembered my parents struggle with smoking and how I hate cigarettes and wanted to express it. Sorry if it made you feel bad.

I honestly understand you want to help. I really do appreciate it, and I hated to respond like that, but lots of people give lots of advice. (And you're not the only one trying to help.) If there is something that might help, we've tried it, or can't try it. I can't fast simply because my prescriptions require food. E-cigs are replacing one habit with another, although they give you the drug without the carcinogens. Hypnosis really does help for a few people. But, since we're stuck we already know much of this.

It's like we're taking a geometry class, but can't get circles, found others getting stuck on circles too, but all the other students think we're stuck on everything, so teach us the same thing the geometry textbook teaches. We only need so much info, but we have to wade through all the info to pull out the part we're stuck on.

Who can get upset with someone trying to help? So, I'm not upset. I really am glad people are trying, but it gets overwhelming when it's everything and the kitchen sink, but not necessarily what we need.