Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated

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J

Josefnospam

Senior Member
May 29, 2014
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Many people try to change this wonderful verse and say God does not really hate anyone. But thank God, he has chosen our Inheritance for us, his chosen blood bought people. He alone chooses whom he will save Thru his Son Jesus Christ the Lord.

Romans 9:13 is one of many wonderful truths that is often attacked and some translations even change the wording. I have heard some say God loves ALL people but some more than others. God doesn't hate anyone..... This is nonsense.

Scripture (kjv) clearly says God loved and chose Jacob and did not love nor choose Esau.

God reigns over the heathen on his throne in holiness. He has chosen his people and has given his people the Victory and is to be praised for his triumph and his perfect finished work.

Psalm 47.....(kjv)

Shout unto God with the voice of triumph for he is a GREAT king over all the Earth.....verse 1
He shall chose OUR inheritance for us, the excellency of JACOB whom he loved..........verse 4 reread this verse
God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.............verse 8
Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.................verse 6


Thank our God and King for his wonderful works and praise him and his name alone

We worship a wonderful, loving God and GREAT King who has chosen and secured his people.... His name is Jesus Christ the Lord, our risen exalted Savior
 
Josefnospam said:
He alone chooses whom he will save Thru his Son Jesus Christ the Lord.
Click to expand...
And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live
for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that
whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
 
Gentle true words..... God did not die for everyone. If he did then no one would go to " hell" yet we know "hell will be heavy in population. God did not make it possible to be saved. HE SAVED all he come for and will not be frustrated or lose even ONE he came for due to mans choice, decision or action. Thank God for his Salvation and give him ALL the praise he so rightly deserves. I for one am so thankful he saved me, a sinner. We need a savior and our God choses his people and has the victory

"he shall choose our inheritance for us, the excellency of Jacob whom he loved"......Psalm 47:4

May God bless you as only he can do.............................

We are not under the Law but under grace
 
Do you believe, for a second, the context of that hate of God involves malevolent hate? A capricious hate, than forms the damned in their mother's wombs? Whatever God hates, you picked one of the worst verses in the entire Bible to make your case. The Lord told us we're none of His, if we don't hate our own families, but this is in relation to our love of God, obviously the Lord not teaching a doctrine of malevolence of our God that is love, that is mercy, that seeks us to reason with Him throughout scripture and make proper choices. We have a whole Bible context to consider, in order to arrive at truth.

Anyway, did nobody warn you of Ouija boards, or of wearing that shirt?

CK Man.jpg
​


 
I often have had a problem with the Jacob Esau thing, God hating Esau.
But I understand it better now then years ago.
I don't know if I fully comprehend it though.
 
JosephsDreams said:
I often have had a problem with the Jacob Esau thing, God hating Esau.
But I understand it better now then years ago.
I don't know if I fully comprehend it though.
Click to expand...
It's simple, God didn't hate Esau the person, he hated Esau the symbol. Esau symbolizes the flesh, the first born. Jacob symbolizes the second born. Esau (flesh) have I hated, but Jacob (second born) have I loved. God loves all people.
 
Or like when God hardened Pharaohs heart, or allowed a lying spirit to induce Ahab, or that spirit that God put into Soul, I think it was called a tormenting spirit.
My Lord, who I fear, but is also so loving and gracious, and has given me more chances then I deserve in 5 lifetimes. Why, how, can He do this?
I am not questioning His love, or sovrereignty or wisdom. If He does something it is perfect, I know.
And I know God can not sin.
But I sometimes see it more clearly then others, but most times I don't fully get it.
 
KJV1611 said:
It's simple, God didn't hate Esau the person, he hated Esau the symbol. Esau symbolizes the flesh, the first born. Jacob symbolizes the second born. Esau (flesh) have I hated, but Jacob (second born) have I loved. God loves all people.
Click to expand...

But why would God be against the first born? Pride?
 
Paul takes that saying from Malichi doesnt he?

Mal 1 :2 I have loved you, saith the LORD.
Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:
yet I loved Jacob,

Shown as nations (or peoples)

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her,Two nations are in thy womb,
and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
and the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
and the elder shall serve the younger.

Whereas Paul writes

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Which is taken from Malichi, says here of peoples

Mal 1:4 Whereas Edom saith, (Gen 25:30, Gen 36:1) We are impoverished,
but we will return and build the desolate places;
thus saith the LORD of hosts,
They shall build, but I will throw down;
and they shall call them, The border of wickedness,
and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

Esau comes in right here as well (in respects to selling his birthright)

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau,
who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

As we see here...

Gen 25:22 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die:
and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

...and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing,
he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance,though he sought it carefully with tears.

Gen 27:38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father?
bless me, even me also, O my father.
And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.

Wouldnt this be showing two nations being born of the same father (Isaac) as the LORD says

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Paul just quoted the last portion of what The LORD had said in full, speaking of two nations (even two manners of people)

Paul quoting Malachi as it is written here

Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Whereas Paul quotes from there saying,

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

But in that way, laying his mountains and heritage waste
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Paul takes that saying from Malichi doesnt he?

Mal 1 :2 I have loved you, saith the LORD.
Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD:
yet I loved Jacob,

Shown as nations (or peoples)

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her,Two nations are in thy womb,
and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels;
and the one people shall be stronger than the other people;
and the elder shall serve the younger.

Whereas Paul writes

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Which is taken from Malichi, says here of peoples

Mal 1:4 Whereas Edom saith, (Gen 25:30, Gen 36:1) We are impoverished,
but we will return and build the desolate places;
thus saith the LORD of hosts,
They shall build, but I will throw down;
and they shall call them, The border of wickedness,
and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.

Esau comes in right here as well (in respects to selling his birthright)

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau,
who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

As we see here...

Gen 25:22 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die:
and what profit shall this birthright do to me?

...and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.

Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing,
he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance,though he sought it carefully with tears.

Gen 27:38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father?
bless me, even me also, O my father.
And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.

Wouldnt this be showing two nations being born of the same father (Isaac) as the LORD says

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Paul just quoted the last portion of what The LORD had said in full, speaking of two nations (even two manners of people)

Paul quoting Malachi as it is written here

Mal 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us?
Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Mal 1:3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Whereas Paul quotes from there saying,

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

But in that way, laying his mountains and heritage waste
Click to expand...

Today, in NT times, can a Christian (or non Christian for that matter) sell his birthright to his younger brother?
Is that even relevant today?
 
KJV1611 said:
The firstborn is us in our flesh.. dirty filthy nasty sinners, the second born is Christ in us.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no flesh pleases God, the natural in those comparisons mentioned in respect to the same is shown first. Whether the similitude is shown in one woman (having one father like Isaac) such as the twins and their order of birth in Rebekeh or one father (such a Abraham) and two women (which represent two covenants) and their offspring, the first is over passed (as Abraham went into Hagar) showing that was after the flesh) and so whether Ishmeal (his first, after the flesh) or Esau (which come out first, in Rebekah) the second is shown being chosen over the firstborn, even as we might count it, Esau having sold the birthright, or the right of firstborn as Jesus Christ takes that being the firstborn of the dead also.

In the bondwoman its shown in Ishmeal (the birth order) betwee two

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; (who come first) but he of the freewoman was by promise (who would come after)

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, (or come after) even so it is now.

Paul uses that picture to show the time then present between Jerusalem that then was (that answered in Agar) in contrast to them as Isaac was (who come after) being children of the promise (which has everything to do with the Spirit)

Cain (first) and Abel (after, and slain) and Seth (appointed) in his stead (so to speak). Same sort of thing repeated in different ways of births (after the flesh, or after the Spirit).


 
Josefnospam said:
Many people try to change this wonderful verse and say God does not really hate anyone. But thank God, he has chosen our Inheritance for us, his chosen blood bought people. He alone chooses whom he will save Thru his Son Jesus Christ the Lord.

Romans 9:13 is one of many wonderful truths that is often attacked and some translations even change the wording. I have heard some say God loves ALL people but some more than others. God doesn't hate anyone..... This is nonsense.

Scripture (kjv) clearly says God loved and chose Jacob and did not love nor choose Esau.

God reigns over the heathen on his throne in holiness. He has chosen his people and has given his people the Victory and is to be praised for his triumph and his perfect finished work.

Psalm 47.....(kjv)

Shout unto God with the voice of triumph for he is a GREAT king over all the Earth.....verse 1
He shall chose OUR inheritance for us, the excellency of JACOB whom he loved..........verse 4 reread this verse
God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.............verse 8
Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises.................verse 6


Thank our God and King for his wonderful works and praise him and his name alone

We worship a wonderful, loving God and GREAT King who has chosen and secured his people.... His name is Jesus Christ the Lord, our risen exalted Savior
Click to expand...
I remember my grandmother telling me about the story of Jacob and Esau when I was a child. I felt so sorry for Esau that I even cried...I kept saying it's not fair they tricked him. I just could not understand it.

When I was older I remember rereading this story and having a different understanding of it. I saw that all of God's ways are fair and just. His thoughts are much higher than mine. He let me look at this story with a spiritual eye. And this is what I learned of it:

Esau had been given a promise of inheritance something that was sure to happen, but he would have to wait for it with faith and patience. However, he was weak and chose to nourish his flesh with food rather than choose to maintain his birthright.

He had a choice in the matter. He chose the flesh over the promise (Spirit).
 
1ofthem said:
I remember my grandmother telling me about the story of Jacob and Esau when I was a child. I felt so sorry for Esau that I even cried...I kept saying it's not fair they tricked him. I just could not understand it.

When I was older I remember rereading this story and having a different understanding of it. I saw that all of God's ways are fair and just. His thoughts are much higher than mine. He let me look at this story with a spiritual eye. And this is what I learned of it:

Esau had been given a promise of inheritance something that was sure to happen, but he would have to wait for it with faith and patience. However, he was weak and chose to nourish his flesh with food rather than choose to maintain his birthright.

He had a choice in the matter. He chose the flesh over the promise (Spirit).
Click to expand...
I would not hate my son if he had done the same. I might be diappointed in him but I would still love him and most certainly I would not hate him for it.... God is a far better and more loving father than I am.
 
KJV1611 said:
It's simple, God didn't hate Esau the person, he hated Esau the symbol. Esau symbolizes the flesh, the first born. Jacob symbolizes the second born. Esau (flesh) have I hated, but Jacob (second born) have I loved. God loves all people.
Click to expand...
I didn't see this when I was posting my other post...but I agree with you and that is what I was trying to say in a round about way...LOL
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Paul takes that saying from Malichi doesnt he?
Click to expand...
Yes, he sure did.

God did not hate Esau before he was born as he had not done any good or evil at that point (Rom 9:11).

In Gen 25:21-23 Rebecca was concerned about her pregnancy due to the struggling within her. She went to inquire of the Lord. God's words were the elder shall serve the younger as is corroborated in Rom 9:12.

Then we have the words written in Malachi, which occur after the full culmination of the progeny of Esau. And as you have pointed out, they had laid his mountains and his heritage waste (Mal 1:3).

Further in Malachi 1:4 Whereas Edom [Edom is Esau (Gen 25:30, 36:1)] saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever.
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
Yeah, no flesh pleases God, the natural in those comparisons mentioned in respect to the same is shown first. Whether the similitude is shown in one woman (having one father like Isaac) such as the twins and their order of birth in Rebekeh or one father (such a Abraham) and two women (which represent two covenants) and their offspring, the first is over passed (as Abraham went into Hagar) showing that was after the flesh) and so whether Ishmeal (his first, after the flesh) or Esau (which come out first, in Rebekah) the second is shown being chosen over the firstborn, even as we might count it, Esau having sold the birthright, or the right of firstborn as Jesus Christ takes that being the firstborn of the dead also.

In the bondwoman its shown in Ishmeal (the birth order) betwee two

Gal 4:23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; (who come first) but he of the freewoman was by promise (who would come after)

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, (or come after) even so it is now.

Paul uses that picture to show the time then present between Jerusalem that then was (that answered in Agar) in contrast to them as Isaac was (who come after) being children of the promise (which has everything to do with the Spirit)

Cain (first) and Abel (after, and slain) and Seth (appointed) in his stead (so to speak). Same sort of thing repeated in different ways of births (after the flesh, or after the Spirit).
Click to expand...
Take that a step farther now and apply it to national Israel. National Israel represents the flesh and is actually called God's firstborn son in the bible. Jesus is God's second born son... So according to the bible, who gets the promises made to Abraham, Israel the firstborn or Christ the second born? This theme is played out over and over in the bible... pretty cool.
 
That's the whole idea behind election. God sets aside the first(the flesh) and elects or chooses the second, the spiritual. God set aside Esau and chose to use Jacob. God has set aside the first Adam and has elected the second Adam, Jesus Christ. The Old Covenant represents the flesh, and the New Covenant represents the spiritual. God chose Abel over the firstborn Cain. God chose Isaac over Ishmael. There are many examples throughout Scripture.

In terms of salvation, election is God's choosing the method of Salvation. God choosing the spiritual over the flesh. God electing to use the New Covenant through Jesus Christ over the Old Covenant the Law. Man can't will it any other way than the way God has set it up and that's through JESUS Christ!

KJV1611 said:
It's simple, God didn't hate Esau the person, he hated Esau the symbol. Esau symbolizes the flesh, the first born. Jacob symbolizes the second born. Esau (flesh) have I hated, but Jacob (second born) have I loved. God loves all people.
Click to expand...
 
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