God's Will does not always happen

[Grandpa]

By our own nature, can we ruin God's Will for us?

Nope.

1 John 4:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[1ofthem]

I found this song a couple days ago on youtube and I think it goes right along with this thread...There have been times in my life that I wouldn't listen to God's will and chose to do it my way...at those times I was chastised and brought down so that I would humble myself and look and listen for God's will and follow it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-cafSLjLFI

 

[kaylagrl]

In reference to this, I then ask you all a question. By our own nature, can we ruin God's Will for us? I say yes and I simply can refer to Jonah and the whale. Jonah wouldn't listen to God so he got swallowed by a whale. Does God's Will for a person include that person not wanting to listen to God and instead following his or her own path?

I've heard it put this way before...there is Gods perfect will and Gods permissive will. Sometimes we do things that take us out of His perfect will for our lives. So we can change His perfect will for our lives,yes we can.

 

[Magenta]

Because pharaoh is often used as some kind of an example when the subject of God's will versus self willed humans comes up, perhaps this needs to be looked at a little closer. God did make an example of pharaoh, and in defeating the pantheon of Egypt's false gods and goddesses showed that He was supreme over all of them, since each plague triumphed over one or more of their false idols. Worshiping false idols can not be good for anyone, and Egypt easily had over a thousand of them, including pharaoh himself, who was believed to have been a god. With the final plague God pronounces judgment on all the gods of Egypt: “For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.” (Exodus 12:12) The ten plagues were:

1. To deliver the Israelites (Exodus 3:8; 19–20; 6:1, 5).
2. To answer Pharaoh’s question: ‘Who is the Lord[SUP]1[/SUP] that I should obey His voice and let Israel go?’ (Exodus 5:2; 7:5; 8:22; 9:14).
3. So that the Israelites would know the power of Yahweh (Exodus 6:7; 10:2).
4. To show that the earth belongs to Yahweh, not to the Egyptian gods (Exodus 9:16, 29;11:7; cf. Psalm 24:1).
5. To execute judgment on ‘all the gods of Egypt’ (Exodus 12:12, cf. Numbers 33:4).

 

[Tinkerbell725]

We make plans but God's purposes prevail. If we violate His purpose evil happens and we get hurt. Exercise your own free will but be prepared to get hurt. It is important to align your free will to His will and that is to bring Him glory.

 

[Magenta]

Here is an interesting read on heart hardening:

Of all the characters in the Bible, few have caused as much speculation as the Pharaoh who ruled Egypt during the time of Moses. God spoke to Moses about Pharaoh and said, "I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go" (Exodus 4:21). This promise of God was repeated on several other occasions (7:3; 9:12; 10:20, 27).

Many fanciful theories have been devised to explain how God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Calvinists often point to this case and claim that God miraculously hardened his heart by the Holy Spirit. But, as is always the case, their argument fails in the light of other passages.

Three times in the narrative we read that Pharaoh hardened his own heart (Ex. 8:15, 32; 9:34). Four other times the Bible simply says his heart "grew" or "became" hard (Ex. 7:14, 22; 8:19; 9:7). The record also indicates the magicians had a hand in the hardening of Pharaoh's heart (Ex. 7:22; 8:19).

When we put all the pieces together, what do we find? Pharaoh was an insolent, arrogant and cruel man. He had two reasons for not wanting to release the Israelites: pride and covetousness. It would look bad for a monarch to allow nearly two million slaves to go free. It would also hurt the national economy if he lost his labor force.

It went against the grain for one to make demands in the name of Jehovah. Every time Moses spoke Pharaoh's heart grew harder.

The magicians also played a part in the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. By the use of enchantments, they tried to minimize the miracles of Moses. Jamieson commented, "the art of those ancient magicians, who were not common jugglers, but educated men, was enlisted in support of the idolatry of Egypt it is not difficult to imagine what immense power those professors of occult science must have wielded over the minds of men in an age of darkness, when the superstition of Egypt was in all its glory."

God hardens the hearts of men today the same way He did 3,500 years ago. Some will never listen to a simple gospel preacher. The "pride of life" (1 John 2:16) will cause them to close their ears. Pride kept many of the rulers from confessing Christ, "lest they be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God" (John 12:42, 43).

When a man repeatedly hears the gospel message, yet refuses to obey it, his conscience becomes "seared" (1 Tim. 4:2). To some men, gospel preachers are the "aroma of life," but to those who have had their conscience seared, they are the "aroma of death" (2 Corinthians 2:16).

False teachers also help to harden the hearts of some. Pentecostal preachers, by their use of "signs and lying wonders" (2 Thes. 2:9), have deceived people into putting their trust in things other than God's word. Denominational creed books and traditions have also blinded men to the truth (Matthew 15:8, 9).

Religious groups like the PTL Club have convinced many people that "Christianity" is a sham. It is tragic that the shenanigans of these con artists will cause people to give up on God, and never find out what means to be a Christian.

When Jesus prayed for the unity of his disciples, He said, "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent me" (John 17:21). The unity of our Lord's followers would help convince the world that the Father had sent Him. The denominations who preach "join the church of your choice" are acting against the prayer of Christ.

Pharaoh had the opportunity to heed the message of God. I am sure he would give 1,000 worlds like this one for another chance. You have the same choice Pharaoh had. The difference is that he cannot change his decision now, but you can.

Hardening Of Pharaoh's Heart | Plagues On Egypt

 

[MikeHenderson]

If you are teaching not everything is under the control of God then you are teaching that God is not God.

Everything that has happened and will happen is controlled by God. Nothing takes God by surprise!

When God created everything He knew exactly what will happen in the future.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

In reference to this, I then ask you all a question. By our own nature, can we ruin God's Will for us? I say yes and I simply can refer to Jonah and the whale. Jonah wouldn't listen to God so he got swallowed by a whale. Does God's Will for a person include that person not wanting to listen to God and instead following his or her own path?

Yes. Would Jonah had been swallowed by the fish if he had listened to God in the first place to go to Ninevah? I would say No . . .

It is God's will (desire) for all men to be saved . . . Will all men be saved?

 

[Zmouth]

If you are teaching not everything is under the control of God then you are teaching that God is not God.

That contradicts free will

Everything that has happened and will happen is controlled by God. Nothing takes God by surprise! When God created everything He knew exactly what will happen in the future.

Why did it repent the LORD that he made man on the earth as written in Genesis 6:6?

 

[John146]

That contradicts free will




Why did it repent the LORD that he made man on the earth as written in Genesis 6:6?

Great question...why did God repent and not destroy Nineveh?

 

[notuptome]

Man's self will is always in opposition to God's will. God's will is always accomplished. God is glorified in us when we submit our will to His will. God is glorified either when we live for Him or when we are condemned for remaining apart from Him.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Magenta]

Great question...why did God repent and not destroy Nineveh?

Because Nineveh repented. Then they recanted and Nineveh was destroyed as Nahum prophesied.

 

[John146]

Because Nineveh repented. Then they recanted and Nineveh was destroyed as Nahum prophesied.

Yep, but was it God's plan to destroy them? Did He not declare that in forty days Nineveh shall be overthrown?

 

[Magenta]

Yep, but was it God's plan to destroy them? Did He not declare that in forty days Nineveh shall be overthrown?

Nahum 1:8
but with an overwhelming flood he will make an end of Nineveh;
he will pursue his foes into the realm of darkness.

Nahum 1:12a
This is what the LORD says: "Although they have allies and
are numerous, they will be destroyed and pass away.

Nahum 1:14
The LORD has given a command concerning you, Nineveh:
"You will have no descendants to bear your name. I will destroy
the images and idols that are in the temple of your gods.
I will prepare your grave, for you are vile."

 

[John146]

Nahum 1:8
but with an overwhelming flood he will make an end of Nineveh;
he will pursue his foes into the realm of darkness.

Nahum 1:12a
This is what the LORD says: "Although they have allies and
are numerous, they will be destroyed and pass away.

Nahum 1:14
The LORD has given a command concerning you, Nineveh:
"You will have no descendants to bear your name. I will destroy
the images and idols that are in the temple of your gods.
I will prepare your grave, for you are vile."

This was a second time God declared to destroy Nineveh and He did. The first time God said they would be destroyed in forty days. God did not destroy them because He changed His mind.

 

[Depleted]

I have work this morning and could have chose to hit my alarm and gone right back to sleep. Would that have been God's Will for me to blow off my boss and job? I also have a meeting after work with a pastor. Would it be God's Will for me to blow off the pastor? I wholeheartedly agree that God can and does use each situation, but that's different than using His Will. Let's take this into every day tasks such as eating and using the bathroom. We know what happens when we don't do those things. So when we don't, are those part of God's Will as well? I think saying everything happens for a reason and every little thing is His Will can be a slippery slope. Hence, refusing to eat or go to the bathroom when needed.

And this is the problem of inventing your own god. Did you notice what you did there? That wasn't about God. That was about your life.

Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl by God's providence. How do I know that? Because they won the Super Bowl. Was it all about some football team winning the big game? Nope. Although God gave his people something for their good, gave other people something for their bad, most folks in the world weren't directly affected by it, but some folks were. Peyton Manning, one of God's people, got a nice present out of the deal -- a nice way to retire, but something probably happened to him before, during or after that game that furthered God's kingdom in some kind of way that none of us will ever know about in this life.

And then there is that janitor, who was tasked with clean up after the big game and who is also God's people, therefore God did something for her/him related to that particular game and much bigger, related to God and his kingdom.

And then some factory worker in East Jabip who is also part of God's kingdom made something for that game that gave him/her a paycheck one more week, which means he/she decided to tithe that paycheck which helped some person down on their luck get a little something that brightened their day and made them realize God really does care.

And then there was that guy and his wife sitting in his hospital room in 6 West who just had a really tough couple of months -- the reason he's in the hospital -- and they weren't even sure if he'd live to see that Super Bowl game, but hey? What did they get out of it? Monkey-dog-baby! Which made them laugh for a moment (well, he laughed, she really couldn't see the screen because she wasn't facing it right) and they finally had a couple of hours together again that didn't involve some doctor or nurse poking, prodding, or worrying about something or another, reminding them that God really is involved in every little thing, even if they aren't in Denver, not in Pittsburgh, and not even in whatever that city was that hosted the game.

So yeah. If it happens, it is God's providence, because he is in perfect control over everything.

You, apparently, are in control of an alarm clock and a car, in need of food and a bathroom.

 

[Depleted]

LOL.....I might need to quit using "not" to ask a question...So please disregard the not in that statement...LOL

NOT!

(I so hope you remember when that one word was a whole sentence to get the humor. lol)

 

[Depleted]

Yes. Would Jonah had been swallowed by the fish if he had listened to God in the first place to go to Ninevah? I would say No . . .

It is God's will (desire) for all men to be saved . . . Will all men be saved?

God told Jonah to go to Nineveh. So Jonah in his "free will" hopped onto the next ship going the opposite way. That very large fish was in the right spot at the right time to swallow him during a storm brought by God of His "free will" to stop Jonah from his "free will," so I'm going with the fish wouldn't have been there if Jonah were smart in the first place.

Oh, and that fish "free willed" it right to the beach in front of Nineveh and then upchucked Jonah right out of his gut three days later, at the exact right time when Jonah truly willed to preach God's message. And then... when it was over, Jonah went right back to free-willing.

I so love that book. It reminds me so much of how well my "free will" goes.

(As for God's will on saving all, if we'd read the rest of that paragraph, instead of stopping in mid thought, we'd discover God gets all who he works at, not every single person ever conceived.)

 

[RobbyEarl]

I think (just maybe) I can sum it from John 3. It is Gods will that no man should perish but that all should repent to everlasting life. However, we know that that is not reality. With that being said, that is Gods will for each individual. But, what God has spoken he will not relent. He may postpone or delay the judgement but, it will happen sooner or later. You can find this in Kings where God delayed His judgement due to repentance of the people and or King.

 

[John146]

Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl by God's providence. How do I know that? Because they won the Super Bowl. Was it all about some football team winning the big game? Nope. Although God gave his people something for their good, gave other people something for their bad, most folks in the world weren't directly affected by it, but some folks were. Peyton Manning, one of God's people, got a nice present out of the deal -- a nice way to retire, but something probably happened to him before, during or after that game that furthered God's kingdom in some kind of way that none of us will ever know about in this life.

Yep, he went out drinking beer with his teammates.