-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
I have never said we shouldn't agree with God that we are sinners, but to teach repentance is to "turn from sin" as it is used in scripture is just wrong. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, and if you believe anything different, you don't believe the gospel. The scripture in the OP shows this clearly. But anyone depending on themselves by reforming their lives is still lost, because the bible teaches it is ONLY by faith on our part that we are saved. You just need to get off of here for a little while and read your bible.
J
This argument again... yay.
I'll be the last person to disagree with the fact that people are a work in progress, that God does not work in us to make us better servants over time as we follow Christ. However.
There are certain sins that run rampant in our society today and are destroying it. The church just looks on without warning people, and also participating. There are consequences to our actions that damage not only ourselves but others as well.
The church is teaching people that it's ok to engage in destructive behavior by using loopholes in scripture that they try to squeeze through, missing the point entirely.
Example: Say a person smokes. So what.
Ok.
Say a person squeezes through what they see as loopholes to be promiscuous, cheat others for worldly goods, abuse their children... etcetera.
You can't tell me that engaging in behavior like that not only puts a damper on their faith, it increases the cause of evil and suffering in the world today. It's directly doing the enemy's work!
Lukewarm faith. *Spits* I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold...
I'll be the last person to disagree with the fact that people are a work in progress, that God does not work in us to make us better servants over time as we follow Christ. However.
There are certain sins that run rampant in our society today and are destroying it. The church just looks on without warning people, and also participating. There are consequences to our actions that damage not only ourselves but others as well.
The church is teaching people that it's ok to engage in destructive behavior by using loopholes in scripture that they try to squeeze through, missing the point entirely.
Example: Say a person smokes. So what.
Ok.
Say a person squeezes through what they see as loopholes to be promiscuous, cheat others for worldly goods, abuse their children... etcetera.
You can't tell me that engaging in behavior like that not only puts a damper on their faith, it increases the cause of evil and suffering in the world today. It's directly doing the enemy's work!
Lukewarm faith. *Spits* I know all the things you do, that you are neither hot nor cold...
A person needs to be born again before they can even begin to see the kingdom of God and depending on His grace through faith alone for salvation.
If someone thinks we are not born again until we get our bodies are redeemed then they will never see the new creation in Christ and the truth of living from our new man created in righteousness and holiness will be a blurr to them.
These will be continually fighting against the grace of Christ in their lives and will need to create their own D.I.Y self-worksrighteousness/holiness for salvation ( as in going to heaven to be with the Lord )
John 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Jesus said that the kingdom of God will be in you. We get the kingdom of God in us when we are born again. 1 Peter 1:23
What does this kingdom consist of?
Romans 14:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
If someone thinks we are not born again until we get our bodies are redeemed then they will never see the new creation in Christ and the truth of living from our new man created in righteousness and holiness will be a blurr to them.
These will be continually fighting against the grace of Christ in their lives and will need to create their own D.I.Y self-worksrighteousness/holiness for salvation ( as in going to heaven to be with the Lord )
John 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Jesus said that the kingdom of God will be in you. We get the kingdom of God in us when we are born again. 1 Peter 1:23
What does this kingdom consist of?
Romans 14:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Here's how extreme it gets. Tullian Tchividjian is one of the leading voices promoting what is IMO fraudulent grace, and this is what he said:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TullianT/status/144432139683905536?p=v
"I'm certain that I'm going to heaven because I can't remember one truly good work I've ever done."
https://mobile.twitter.com/TullianT/status/144432139683905536?p=v
Last edited:
We have new hearts now that we are born-again and now we need to have our minds renewed to what happened to us in our inner man created in Christ - so that it will reflect outwardly to a hurt and dying world. Teaching the grace of Christ is the only thing that helps us to stop sinning as Titus 2:11-12 shows us that grace instructs us to live godly.
I have never heard any Christian say "Go out and sin all you want.".
The believers new heart in Christ created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.
Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )
Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.
Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now. Jesus is inside our new hearts now.
Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with powerthrough His Spirit in the inner man,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.
2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.
Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
God has cleansed our hearts by faith.
Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
We love from our hearts now as it is pure.
1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heartand a good conscience and a sincere faith.
2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )
1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.
There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.
We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that and we need to have our minds renewed to truth...but all that is a different subject.
Last edited:
S
Did you ever read the account of the believers that did good works by giving a cup of water and going to visit people in the hospital and prison and asked the Lord when they did these things.
These believers ( the righteous ) didn't know when they had done good deeds - it flowed naturally out of them as they were led by the Spirit within them Who is love.
The ones in Christ are not even aware of them doing these things as it stems from their heart - not a matter of "doing good deeds in order to maintain salvation"
Matthew 25:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
These believers ( the righteous ) didn't know when they had done good deeds - it flowed naturally out of them as they were led by the Spirit within them Who is love.
The ones in Christ are not even aware of them doing these things as it stems from their heart - not a matter of "doing good deeds in order to maintain salvation"
Matthew 25:37 (NASB)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
G
Bingo. That is "easy believism." It is always portrayed as the drunk who happens to go to church and believes then goes back to the pub.
But the overwhelming majority, have cleaned up their lives, go to church, do good,try to follow the walk of Jesus Christ .......and trust in this for their salvation. And not on Jesus Christ's work on the cross for them.
But the overwhelming majority, have cleaned up their lives, go to church, do good,try to follow the walk of Jesus Christ .......and trust in this for their salvation. And not on Jesus Christ's work on the cross for them.
If we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?..are you saying we can sin all we want now?"
If no one says that - then we have not preached the gospel of the grace of Christ yet the way Paul did. He was accused numerous times of preaching licentiousness, He had to defend this accusation 4x times alone in Romans. The gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous and it offends the religious mindset.
If no one says that - then we have not preached the gospel of the grace of Christ yet the way Paul did. He was accused numerous times of preaching licentiousness, He had to defend this accusation 4x times alone in Romans. The gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous and it offends the religious mindset.
J
Both are relevant.
Luke 6:
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? [SUP]47 [/SUP]I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. [SUP]48 [/SUP]It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.”
Luke 6:
[SUP]46 [/SUP]“So why do you keep calling me ‘Lord, Lord!’ when you don’t do what I say? [SUP]47 [/SUP]I will show you what it’s like when someone comes to me, listens to my teaching, and then follows it. [SUP]48 [/SUP]It is like a person building a house who digs deep and lays the foundation on solid rock. When the floodwaters rise and break against that house, it stands firm because it is well built. [SUP]49 [/SUP]But anyone who hears and doesn’t obey is like a person who builds a house right on the ground, without a foundation. When the floods sweep down against that house, it will collapse into a heap of ruins.”