Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

[Ariel82]

I only came in this thread cuz I respected the OP. I will catch you later..maybe.

 

[Budman]

Here are a few more to the above


Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us

1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned,
we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

For all have sinned

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,
and come short of the glory of God;

1John 1:8 If we say thatwe have no sin,
we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

As Paul said (in Roms 7:17) sin dwelleth in me
(as there is no good thing in the flesh)

But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if so be the Spirit of God
is in us (Roms 8:9). In light of the grace we are under, (Roms 6:14)
sin shall not have dominion over us

1John 3:9 Whosoever isborn of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him:
and he cannot sin, because he is born of God

1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace,
who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus,
after thatye have suffered a while , make you perfect,
stablish, strengthen, settle you.

1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered forus in the flesh,
arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:
for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin

Contrasting ceasing from sin and that which cannot cease from sin

2Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised
with covetous practices; cursed children:

1John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinnethhath not seen him,
neither known him.

James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ,
the Lord of glory, with respectof persons.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin,
and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:10 In this thechildren of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,
neither he that loveth not his brother.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you:
he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

John 8:36 If the Son thereforeshallmake you free,
ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:18 Being then made free fromsin,
ye became the servants of righteousness.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple,
and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more,
lest a worse thing come unto thee.

There is sin in ignorance and unbelief (as Paul speaks of )
and sinning wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecuter, and injurious:
but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief

And likewise this next alsoHeb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation,
which shall devour the adversaries

Do you continue to sin?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Do you still sin?

What I do, and what you do, does not change the Truth according to the words of God. Believe God's words by faith, or not.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

What I do, and what you do, does not change the Truth according to the words of God. Believe God's words by faith, or not.

Thats the same thing I posted before as well,

I dont get how the messsenger of a verse would make the verse void whether they sin or not, that seems strange to me to do, Gods word hanging on the life of the messenger (either way)

If you said yes (the ah ha follows) if you say no, you are a liar, answering it is rather dumb

 

[Grace777x70]

The son abides forever. We are now sons/daughters of God because we are in Christ. We really need to hear the gospel of the grace of Christ!

John 8:35 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6[/SUP]Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

Romans 8:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16[/SUP] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[Budman]

What I do, and what you do, does not change the Truth according to the words of God. Believe God's words by faith, or not.

Yet another hypocrite, I see.

You keep posting scriptures about those who sin, yet you yourself keep sinning. You sin every day, and you know it. You are doing nothing but condemning yourself every time you try to make salvation conditional upon stopping sinning.

You haven't stopped sinning- so you may as well knock it off with the Pharisaical posts. Your self-righteousness is an affront to the Lord.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Thats the same thing I posted before as well,



If you said yes (the ah ha follows) if you say no, you are a liar, answering it is rather dumb

Sinners want a gospel shaped in their own image, instead of believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ that can transform them into the image of God's Son.

 

[Budman]

Sinners want a gospel shaped in their own image, instead of believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ that can transform them into the image of God's Son.

You are a sinner as well.

1 John 1:8.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but only the ones who are obedient (repent, believe) receive grace.

People need to get our of their heads the idea that obedience is works of law.

No, Only those who repent are obedient, You keep trying to put the cart before the horse.

And you need to realize the law will condemn you, no matter how obedient you think you are. If you do not repent and receive grace,

You have two choices according to scripture. Grace or law. There is no plan three.

 

[ember]

all of God's little helpers telling everyone what they are and what they want

I would think that log is getting some heavy by now

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's exactly what obedience is. Jesus and John came proclaiming repent and believe. Those who obeyed, their sins were forgiven.

through whom we have received grace and apostleship for the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name, Romans 1:5

but now has been revealed, and through the prophetic scriptures has been made known according to the command of the eternal God, resulting in obedience of faith to all the Gentiles, Romans 16:26

This is the work of God: that you believe into the one [the father] set apart. John 6:29​

Obedience of faith.

It means we are obedient to the gospel by placing our faith in him,

It is not going out and doing good deeds..

Why do you keep trying to replace faith with works?

 

[Grace777x70]

Until we understand the new birth in Christ - the new creation...and that we have been circumcised from the flesh and the inner man in Christ by the Holy Spirit. - these verses below will trip us up.

These verses say the one born of God cannot sin - not even once...let alone 1,000 times.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18[/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him. ( He who keeps us is Jesus in the Holy Spirit which is in our inner man of the heart who is in Christ )

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would you worry if I did I mean after all your once saved always saved right? There would be no reason for that question unless of course your coming to the knowledge of the truth.

Um, You said Jesus did not do so we could still sin.

So the fact of if you sin or not means alot..

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Sinners want a gospel shaped in their own image, instead of believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ that can transform them into the image of God's Son.

It can be a way of trying to intimidate anyone who posts those, because that tactic comes up and their words are to trump Jesus Christs in those ones. The effectual grace of God does not allow sin to have dominion over us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You can see the progression of being a servant of sin and free in these verses

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,
his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,
or of obedience unto righteousness?

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever:
but the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free,
ye shall be free indeed.

Romans 6:17
But God be thanked,
that ye were the servants of sin,
but ye have obeyed from the heart
that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Romans 6:18
Being then made free from sin,
ye became the servantsof righteousness.

Romans 6:20
For when ye were the servants of sin,
ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin,
and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness,
and the end everlasting life.

so you are sinless?

If not, using these verses in the context you tried to condemns you and every person who still sins.

which would include the whole world..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You should study Paul. Paul was chosen

Acts 9:15 KJV But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Paul still had to do what the rest of us did, and repent..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here we go again->>>>>>>

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.

here must be another one of those sinless people..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I do, and what you do, does not change the Truth according to the words of God. Believe God's words by faith, or not.

Like I said before, it matters alot

You can;t condemn people who sin when you are still a sinner yourself. because you condemn yourself..So unless you are sinless. You have major issues with what you said.

 

[ember]

The conclusions in the OP agree with 2 Peter 1 and the warnings not to neglect our part of sanctification, lest we fall. Fall from what? Each reader should let the Lord make certain what that chapter is about. Ignoring Peter's sermon nullifies any belief of other scriptures that promotes automatic or unconditional eternal life.

Exodus 2:7 begins a great promise from God, the basis for willingness of his people to leave Egypt under leadership of Moses. God's people followed, but because of falling back, forsaking faith, all but two of them died in the Sinai wilderness, not receiving the promise. The Old Testament presents many more reports of backsliding resulting in the fall into sin.

The grace of God is provided by way of the shed blood of Jesus, his Son. The only way we can benefit from that grace is to believe the gospel of Christ and repent of sin, and change our mind to follow the Way of salvation. That means to forsake the "Old Man" ways, then accept the responsibilities of the "New Man" Christ makes us to be through faith.

thing is, is he speaking of sanctification or requiring additions to salvation

if you add to salvation, then you are saying Jesus + something...that is not salvation...that is going beyond even what God requires

atonement is atonement...you know? how many times was a sacrifice killed on behalf of someone who sinned wanting forgiveness?

again, the word repent is being used to mean sorrow over sin

that is not what the word repent means...misunderstanding what that word means, leads to adding to salvation and requiring a person basically atones for their own sin by being sorry for it...repent means to agree with God

I agree with God...I am not going to make an altar and sacrifice some unknown chimera upon it because certain people state it is required

it is not required...what is required, is that I repent...agree with God...and follow Him

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sinners want a gospel shaped in their own image, instead of believing in the gospel of Jesus Christ that can transform them into the image of God's Son.

So again your sinless??