Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?
- Thread starter HeRoseFromTheDead
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Hi Ben!
Good post. I would add that it's not purely pride for some, but control, that they wish to have. They trust themselves to 'keep' themselves good enough to maintain their salvation. For some, that's easier than resting in the Finished Work of Christ - they just can't believe it can be that simple and that easy, and that He takes ALL the burden of our salvation and it's maintanence upon Himself.
-JGIG
Good post. I would add that it's not purely pride for some, but control, that they wish to have. They trust themselves to 'keep' themselves good enough to maintain their salvation. For some, that's easier than resting in the Finished Work of Christ - they just can't believe it can be that simple and that easy, and that He takes ALL the burden of our salvation and it's maintanence upon Himself.
-JGIG
Being in the flesh and being in the spirit are descriptions of where people are. Either you are in Adam ( in the flesh ) or in Christ ( in the spirit ).
People can live by the flesh or live by the spirit.( Gal 5:16, 25 )
If a Christian has malice ( which is ill-will towards someone and it is a work of the flesh ) towards someone and they die - they will still go to heaven - they will just have not walked by the spirit in that area of their life while on this earth. ( you can take this scenario and put in any work of the flesh including slander, outbursts of anger, gluttony, reviling..etc )
The true new creature in Christ if they have some sort of sin in their life will be the most miserable person on the planet because it will go against their new nature in Christ.
This is why it is so important to teach people about the grace of Christ so that we can grow up and walk by the spirit within us instead of the flesh.
People can live by the flesh or live by the spirit.( Gal 5:16, 25 )
If a Christian has malice ( which is ill-will towards someone and it is a work of the flesh ) towards someone and they die - they will still go to heaven - they will just have not walked by the spirit in that area of their life while on this earth. ( you can take this scenario and put in any work of the flesh including slander, outbursts of anger, gluttony, reviling..etc )
The true new creature in Christ if they have some sort of sin in their life will be the most miserable person on the planet because it will go against their new nature in Christ.
This is why it is so important to teach people about the grace of Christ so that we can grow up and walk by the spirit within us instead of the flesh.
Thank you for proving my point so quickly, HRFTD.
What you fail to grasp is that we who are New Creations, are taught by Grace, and are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ don't want to sin.
We don't want to sin, we don't encourage others that it's okay to sin, we don't think it's, as you put it, "okay to live like the devil".
Instead we seek to build up the Body in who She is in Christ, using contextual Scripture to show believers what the Work of Christ accomplished and how it is because He ever lives to intercede for us that our eternity is secure in Him.
We also seek to build up the Body about what God says about who She is in Christ - what that means for our day-to-day lives - that sin is no longer our master, because we are no longer under Law but under Grace (Rom. 6). That sin is no longer our master because we have been given the gift of God's Righteousness in Christ (Romans 3, 5, 10, 2 Cor. 5) and we have New Life and are New Creations in Him (Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5).
But you go ahead and rewrite my paragraphs and continue to twist and misrepresent the Grace position. I'm sure no one notices
.
-JGIG
(hoping that the big type font and bright red emphasis will maybe be seen and understood)
What you fail to grasp is that we who are New Creations, are taught by Grace, and are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ don't want to sin.
We don't want to sin, we don't encourage others that it's okay to sin, we don't think it's, as you put it, "okay to live like the devil".
Instead we seek to build up the Body in who She is in Christ, using contextual Scripture to show believers what the Work of Christ accomplished and how it is because He ever lives to intercede for us that our eternity is secure in Him.
We also seek to build up the Body about what God says about who She is in Christ - what that means for our day-to-day lives - that sin is no longer our master, because we are no longer under Law but under Grace (Rom. 6). That sin is no longer our master because we have been given the gift of God's Righteousness in Christ (Romans 3, 5, 10, 2 Cor. 5) and we have New Life and are New Creations in Him (Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5).
But you go ahead and rewrite my paragraphs and continue to twist and misrepresent the Grace position. I'm sure no one notices
.-JGIG
(hoping that the big type font and bright red emphasis will maybe be seen and understood)
I'm taking a page off of pilgrimpassing and saving this post.
I agree...this video really shows the "spirit" that is behind the slanderous attacks against the gospel of the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. It exposes the true nature of why it is so vehemently being attacked. But these attacks only strengthen the gospel to go forward and to preach with more boldness the unfathomable riches of our good, loving Father's grace towards us in Christ.
Ephesians 6:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,
Ephesians 6:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,
Well, anything that saves is a savior. So if water saves, it's a savior, if you want to save yourself, you be the savior. But I found only one Saviour, the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ!
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Hi JGIG, You know, I have seen him and a couple of others on the front of the many videos which are loaded onto this site, after seeing (although not watching) quite a few of them posted I actually began to think this Mr Prince was some sort of silent partner promoting his own website from here because of how often his stuff was posted and then I kept hearing ..."WE this...or WE that" and after a little time you begin to realize there is this other invisible dividing line when (whoever it might be) who seem to be holding to Mr Princes teachings spoke or when talking/arguing to a non hyper (?) grace person (or however you all refer to either yourselves among yourselves or even those not of your particular herd (so to speak) but who by default become the THEY (not with us) types. And so that was just part of why I had actually thought Mr Prince might be the ministry that this particular website supports (in whatever ways it might) or visa versa the website itself choses to support those promote this Mr Prince, I couldnt figure out which or whether that was even so, I havent a clue. But I also cannot find (and what I typically do not look for actually) what many a site oftentimes provides which is the sites statement of faith, perhaps you know where that is, or could direct me to it.
So I have been extended the opportunity to watch this Mr Princes videos by those who promote him as they do here, but I peronally do try to stay away from any of that, or those who spend so much time pointing someone in the direction of other men (and their words) as well as what often appears as away from Christ the words of Christ (being amongst the other things) which I just dont trust that. Its a little more then that, but it wont be helpful to say anymore, so I will say just that and keep it there.
So I have been extended the opportunity to watch this Mr Princes videos by those who promote him as they do here, but I peronally do try to stay away from any of that, or those who spend so much time pointing someone in the direction of other men (and their words) as well as what often appears as away from Christ the words of Christ (being amongst the other things) which I just dont trust that. Its a little more then that, but it wont be helpful to say anymore, so I will say just that and keep it there.
The Lord Jesus has set some in the church to be teachers to the body of Christ so what some people do is put up videos for convenience sake so that others can watch the teaching and decide for themselves what is actually being said.
There is so much "twisting" of words by other people that it's best to hear from the "horse's mouth" so that is why videos and links to the actual articles are put up. Good teaching that lifts up the beauty of the Lord Jesus is eddying.
Don't you just love to hear about the beauty of our Lord and how great a salvation we have in Him? Doesn't it make you fall deeper in love with Him and desire to know Him better for who He actually is?
This very thing has been seen in people changing JGIG's posts as she talked about earlier in this thread.
For example post #390
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-20.html#post2633041
and again in post #391
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-20.html#post2633043
There is so much "twisting" of words by other people that it's best to hear from the "horse's mouth" so that is why videos and links to the actual articles are put up. Good teaching that lifts up the beauty of the Lord Jesus is eddying.
Don't you just love to hear about the beauty of our Lord and how great a salvation we have in Him? Doesn't it make you fall deeper in love with Him and desire to know Him better for who He actually is?
This very thing has been seen in people changing JGIG's posts as she talked about earlier in this thread.
For example post #390
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-20.html#post2633041
and again in post #391
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...conditional-unconditional-20.html#post2633043
No actually it'd be much easier to do nothing; take a free ride and be an entitlement baby. The reason that it can't be believed is because scripture clearly witnesses otherwise. But you go ahead and believe the grace teachers who ignore and twist those things (claiming to have new revelation) and I'll follow what scripture and the spirit say.
Amen...let's all believe and receive Christ's completed work for us! Let's "click" in to the Lord Jesus' eternal life! In him was life and that life is the light of men!
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