What does it mean to "abide" in Christ? (John 15:1-8)

[p_rehbein]

No one is capable of being an "apostle" today (even though some call themselves that). Being imprisoned and decapitated and all that you listed there are not requirements of being a disciple of Christ. That would only require submission to Gods Word and will, and allowing His Word to be the authority over our life. It is sanctification of which is progressive in our walk with Him. There are three tenses of sanctification, there is sanctification that is finished (past), progressive (current), and that to be finished (future glorification).

FROM OP:

This fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) is helpful in getting us through the trials of the world. If we are abiding, we can wade through the worlds tribulations with ease as we grow and mature in Him because HE empowers us to do so as we bear His fruit. But if we are satisfied just being a believer and saved, but not necessarily interested in being a "follower" of Christ, we have the same power indwelling us, but are not gleaning from it and are not learning how to put it to use.

My comment:

There were Apostles, and other believers/disciples, who were imprisoned, beaten, crucified, decapitated.......which of the two dogs depicted do you believe they were? Would we suggest that Stephen was not "abiding in Christ?"


Hmm..........

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell" Mark 9:43-47

That is a very important parable about the importance of removing sin (symbolized as evil body parts) in your lives. All would do well and take heed to the warning Jesus gave in that parable.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

So...that means you have done this commandment below then? If not then according to your religion you would go straight to hell because you did not keep all of Jesus' commandments.

Perhaps you are talking about the commandment where Jesus said to "Go preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judeah Samaria.." Did you do this yet? It's a commandment too.

Still straining at gnats in order to swallow Joseph Princes proverbial camel I see.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That is a very important parable about the importance of removing sin (symbolized as evil body parts) in your lives. All would do well and take heed to the warning Jesus gave in that parable.

They are Jesus words....sharpen your axe.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

So...that means you have done this commandment below then? If not then according to your religion you would go straight to hell because you did not keep all of Jesus' commandments.

Perhaps you are talking about the commandment where Jesus said to "Go preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judeah Samaria.." Did you do this yet? It's a commandment too.

Still straining at gnats in order to swallow Joseph Princes proverbial camel I see.

You are still avoiding the question as you know it will reveal the truth that we need to interpret all scripture in context and in the light of the finished work of Christ.

Context is so important as many of us have tried to show you. Hopefully one day you will understand it and we rejoice to see that day come! As you do seem to have a zeal for God.

 

[ember]

We have the metaphor of Jesus being the vine and we are the branches

I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. John 15:5

If a vine is bearing fruit and in this case Jesus makes that clear...so in other words not some type of nuisance weed vine like choke weed....then we understand that vine is CULTIVATED

So who does that? Jesus tell us...in v. 1 of this chapter

I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. or PRUNER or KEEPER or HUSBANDMAN

Vines have to grow in something...proper soil..Jesus never did anything apart from His Father...He is IN His Father...Jesus described their relationship as ONE...so, if we are the branches in Christ, and He is One with His Father and we know Jesus prayed that we would also be one and one with Him and in that manner with the Father, what we have is a life giving relationship that remains strong

The Father prunes...scripture makes that clear...often not a pleasant experience; but, true to the analogy, more fruit will be produced as a result of the pruning

Take care then, that you do not allow a stranger with shears to chop you up because they have the mistaken idea that they have somehow supplanted the role of the Father in your life. The Bible states that God, the Father, ALONE prunes

You take care of your little branch self, by reading and studying what gives you LIFE...the FERTILIZER of the Word of God...the Bible...you water your little self with prayer and Jesus gives you new life...also as the Word says and He is new life

and I guess one could go on and on with this analogy which is probably why Jesus gave it in the first place

 

[Scriptureplz]

FROM OP:

This fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) is helpful in getting us through the trials of the world. If we are abiding, we can wade through the worlds tribulations with ease as we grow and mature in Him because HE empowers us to do so as we bear His fruit. But if we are satisfied just being a believer and saved, but not necessarily interested in being a "follower" of Christ, we have the same power indwelling us, but are not gleaning from it and are not learning how to put it to use.

My comment:

There were Apostles, and other believers/disciples, who were imprisoned, beaten, crucified, decapitated.......which of the two dogs depicted do you believe they were? Would we suggest that Stephen was not "abiding in Christ?"


Hmm..........

I said "helpful", I didn't say it would. Please do not change my statement to fit your purpose. How were some of them able to go through that experience and still have joy?

 

[CS1]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

So...that means you have done this commandment below then? If not then according to your religion you would go straight to hell because you did not keep all of Jesus' commandments.

Perhaps you are talking about the commandment where Jesus said to "Go preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judeah Samaria.." Did you do this yet? It's a commandment too.






You are still avoiding the question as you know it will reveal the truth that we need to interpret all scripture in context and in the light of the finished work of Christ.

Context is so important as many of us have tried to show you. Hopefully one day you will understand it and we rejoice to see that day come! As you do seem to have a zeal for God.

lets not hijack the post and make about only a few in here I was asked to address that. Thank you

 

[RobbyEarl]

to the OP abide means to dwell or to live in or that is to say have hope and faith in and nothing else. In other words our faith and hope is in Christ and the work of the cross and nothing else.

 

[ember]

to the OP abide means to dwell or to live in or that is to say have hope and faith in and nothing else. In other words our faith and hope is in Christ and the work of the cross and nothing else.

well I agree with that Robby...but (I'm not the op mind you) how does the 'work of the cross' translate into our abiding?

 

[RobbyEarl]

well I agree with that Robby...but (I'm not the op mind you) how does the 'work of the cross' translate into our abiding?

The work of the cross is(or should be ) the object of our faith, I know you never heard that term before, but it simply means that our faith is what Jesus did at the cross, by keeping our faith focused on that work, we then abide or dwell in Him and he in us.

 

[Scriptureplz]

to the OP abide means to dwell or to live in or that is to say have hope and faith in and nothing else. In other words our faith and hope is in Christ and the work of the cross and nothing else.

Not sure where you get your information for that claim from. I get mine from the Greek Lexicon.

G3306

μένω
menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

 

[Scriptureplz]

The work of the cross is(or should be ) the object of our faith, I know you never heard that term before, but it simply means that our faith is what Jesus did at the cross, by keeping our faith focused on that work, we then abide or dwell in Him and he in us.

Jesus was telling His disciples (who were "already clean") that if they abide in Him they would produce fruit. Abide in this passage cannot just mean "dwell or live in" because they already were. This was about "continuing, remaining, enduring in, tarrying with". Jesus had already established they were "dwelling in" in verse 3.

 

[mpaper345]

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



The anointing abiding is us,is the same meaning as us abiding in Christ,which means the anointing dwells in us,so we dwell in Christ,and have our abode with Him,and He had His abode with us.It seems like abide in Christ means we live in Him,and He lives is us,as a dwelling place,we live in Christ,and He lives in us.He is our house to live in,and Christ made us His house to live in.


menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

 

[Scriptureplz]

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



The anointing abiding is us,is the same meaning as us abiding in Christ,which means the anointing dwells in us,so we dwell in Christ,and have our abode with Him,and He had His abode with us.It seems like abide in Christ means we live in Him,and He lives is us,as a dwelling place,we live in Christ,and He lives in us.He is our house to live in,and Christ made us His house to live in.


menō
men'-o
A primary verb; to stay (in a given place, state, relation or expectancy): - abide, continue, dwell, endure, be present, remain, stand, tarry (for), X thine own.

Yes, in some verses it will be "dwell", in some verses it will be "remain or continue". The context determines the word used from the Greek lexicon.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Anyway going to prayer meeting see yall later.

 

[p_rehbein]

FROM OP:

This fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) is helpful in getting us through the trials of the world. If we are abiding, we can wade through the worlds tribulations with ease as we grow and mature in Him because HE empowers us to do so as we bear His fruit. But if we are satisfied just being a believer and saved, but not necessarily interested in being a "follower" of Christ, we have the same power indwelling us, but are not gleaning from it and are not learning how to put it to use.

My comment:

There were Apostles, and other believers/disciples, who were imprisoned, beaten, crucified, decapitated.......which of the two dogs depicted do you believe they were? Would we suggest that Stephen was not "abiding in Christ?"


Hmm..........



I said "helpful", I didn't say it would. Please do not change my statement to fit your purpose. How were some of them able to go through that experience and still have joy?




Funny how you just chose that particular statement huh? As it was not relevant to your/my comments, but it helps you to criticize me while not facing the question I posed.

(see emboldened red lettered statement from OP)

Now, question is: Which of those I stated in my first comment most represent which dog you used as your image enhancer in the OP?

 

[Scriptureplz]

FROM OP:

This fruit (Galatians 5:22-23) is helpful in getting us through the trials of the world. If we are abiding, we can wade through the worlds tribulations with ease as we grow and mature in Him because HE empowers us to do so as we bear His fruit. But if we are satisfied just being a believer and saved, but not necessarily interested in being a "follower" of Christ, we have the same power indwelling us, but are not gleaning from it and are not learning how to put it to use.

My comment:

There were Apostles, and other believers/disciples, who were imprisoned, beaten, crucified, decapitated.......which of the two dogs depicted do you believe they were? Would we suggest that Stephen was not "abiding in Christ?"


Hmm..........



I said "helpful", I didn't say it would. Please do not change my statement to fit your purpose. How were some of them able to go through that experience and still have joy?




Funny how you just chose that particular statement huh? As it was not relevant to your/my comments, but it helps you to criticize me while not facing the question I posed.

(see emboldened red lettered statement from OP)

Now, question is: Which of those I stated in my first comment most represent which dog you used as your image enhancer in the OP?

Those that were imprisoned were imprisoned, but I guess we have to look each one up individually to see how well they endured prison. Being apostles and disciples I'm thinking they endured it well, which is what abiding in Christ was able to do for them. So I would say they would be the taller dog, because even though they had hardships, they were able to endure them, even with joy. (which is a fruit of the Spirit)

We can look at Paul and see that because he WAS abiding in Christ, he WAS enabled to endure that persecution according to scripture.

We can look at John, and see that he had exhibited fruits of the Spirit even though he was near death.

So which would you say they were, the taller of the shorter dog?

 

[p_rehbein]

Those that were imprisoned were imprisoned, but I guess we have to look each one up individually to see how well they endured prison. Being apostles and disciples I'm thinking they endured it well, which is what abiding in Christ was able to do for them. So I would say they would be the taller dog, because even though they had hardships, they were able to endure them, even with joy. (which is a fruit of the Spirit)

We can look at Paul and see that because he WAS abiding in Christ, he WAS enabled to endure that persecution according to scripture.

We can look at John, and see that he had exhibited fruits of the Spirit even though he was near death.

So which would you say they were, the taller of the shorter dog?

I would say that the picture you were painting in the OP is in error simply because your assertion was that those who were abiding in Christ could "wade through the world's tribulations WITH EASE," (the taller dog) as opposed to believers who were not abiding in Christ (the shorter dog).

This is not born out in Scripture in my opinion.

Matthew 10:16) Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 .) But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 .) And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 .) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 .) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 .) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 .) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 .) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 .) The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 .) It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 .) Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Matthew 5:11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 .) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

2 Corinthians 11:21) I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
22 .) Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
23 .) Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 .) Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 .) Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 .) In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 .) In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

Does any of this sound like it was a walk in the park? Does any of this sound like "wading through the worlds tribulations with EASE?


It would be better served to say that through all of these, God DID NOT forsake them. But to suggest that they, or we for that matter, will "wade through the worlds tribulations with ease" is disingenuous at best in my opinion.

And what does our future hold?

Matthew 24:4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 .) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 .) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 .) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 .) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 .) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 .) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 .) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 .) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 .) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 .) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 .) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 .) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 .) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 .) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 .) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 .) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 .) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 .) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 .) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 .) Behold, I have told you before.
26 .) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 .) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 .) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 .) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 .) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 .) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Anyway, this is my opinion, thoughts of the OP and the picture it painted. Abiding in Christ will not keep us from the trials and tribulations of the world, or the pain and suffering of being earthly creatures subject to all that all other earthly creatures are subject to. What abiding in Christ will do is assure that He will BE WITH US through these times, and He will give us strength and comfort, but to suggest it will be "wading through with ease" is not truthful in my opinion.

Will leave you with that comment. Enjoy your discussion.

 

[Scriptureplz]

I would say that the picture you were painting in the OP is in error simply because your assertion was that those who were abiding in Christ could "wade through the world's tribulations WITH EASE," (the taller dog) as opposed to believers who were not abiding in Christ (the shorter dog).

This is not born out in Scripture in my opinion.

Matthew 10:16) Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17 .) But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18 .) And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19 .) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20 .) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21 .) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22 .) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23 .) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24 .) The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25 .) It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26 .) Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Matthew 5:11) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 .) Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

2 Corinthians 11:21) I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
22 .) Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I.
23 .) Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft.
24 .) Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
25 .) Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;
26 .) In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
27 .) In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

Does any of this sound like it was a walk in the park? Does any of this sound like "wading through the worlds tribulations with EASE?


It would be better served to say that through all of these, God DID NOT forsake them. But to suggest that they, or we for that matter, will "wade through the worlds tribulations with ease" is disingenuous at best in my opinion.

And what does our future hold?

Matthew 24:4) And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 .) For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 .) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 .) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 .) All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 .) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 .) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 .) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 .) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 .) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 .) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 .) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 .) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 .) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 .) And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 .) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 .) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 .) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 .) Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 .) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 .) Behold, I have told you before.
26 .) Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 .) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 .) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 .) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 .) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 .) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Anyway, this is my opinion, thoughts of the OP and the picture it painted. Abiding in Christ will not keep us from the trials and tribulations of the world, or the pain and suffering of being earthly creatures subject to all that all other earthly creatures are subject to. What abiding in Christ will do is assure that He will BE WITH US through these times, and He will give us strength and comfort, but to suggest it will be "wading through with ease" is not truthful in my opinion.

Will leave you with that comment. Enjoy your discussion.

"and He will give us strength and comfort,"

YES! He is where fruit of the Spirit comes from. Fruit of the Spirit is what we can expect when we abide (continue) in Christ.