Have the New Testament Charismatic gifts ceased?

[God4me]

As they were a special case, not receiving the Spirit until the Apostles came, thus endorsing the reception of Samaritans, it cannot be used as a example of the norm. Incidentally it does not mention baptism in the Spirit..



it does not mention baptism of the Spirit. He was filled



they were not Christian disciples but disciples of John. They were not 'saved' men by the normal Christian standards. and they were not said to be 'baptised in Holy Spirit'.

as always with your type you assume what you should prove.




believers in John's baptism, yes. but they had not even HEARD of the Holy Spirit.



He does not say they had experienced rebirth. Indeed he recognised their LACK



but that was BEFORE baptism in the Spirit was given



none of the verse mention baptism in the Spirit except Acts1.4-5 which refers to the uniqueness of Pentecost. Speaking in tongues is NEVER directly connected with it.



Baptism in the Spirit DOES save after Pentecost. 'In one spirit we are all baptised into one body.' That is baptism in the Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the promises in Matth 3; Lke 3.

The phrase 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' is only used in connection with John's baptism with that one exception. It thus gains its meaning from that usage. You take it out of context and give it a meaning that it does not have in Scripture,.

Who says they are special cases??. Certainly not God, Because God isn't a respecter of people, and God doesn't have a plan [A] for those people and a plan for the rest.
One has to be born of the Spirit and baptised in the Holy Ghost before they can be filled, See Acts 1: 4--5, The promise of the baptism in the Holy Ghost, And Acts 2: 4, They were FILLED with the Holy Ghost, So Paul was baptised [Filled] with the Holy Ghost, And that was three days after he was born again.

How come Paul knew the disciples in Acts 19: 1, were saved??, Because they were, So he asked them have they been baptised in the Holy Ghost since they were saved. If the baptism in the Holy Ghost is the same as the rebirth, Paul's question wouldn't make sense, He would have know they had received the Holy Ghost, But what Paul meant was, have they been baptised in the Holy Ghost since they were born again.

The Baptism in the Holy Ghost, Doesn't save, One has to be saved before they can be baptised in the Holy Ghost.
It's the same as water baptism, One has to be standing in the water before they can be immersed.

As for 1 Cor 12: 13, That's the rebirth, Not the baptism in the Holy Ghost,
The Spirit baptises us into the body of Christ [The rebirth], 1 Cor 12: 13.
And Jesus baptises us with the Holy Ghost, Matt 3: 11. Lk 24: 49. Acts 1: 4--5.

I was born again [Saved], 7th Dec 1975, And I felt the Holy Spirit enter me, and I staggered back . But I wasn't baptised in the Holy Ghost until May 11th 1976, when I spoke in tongues, which is the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the holy Ghost. So I know the rebirth and the baptism in the Holy Ghost are two separate experiences.

 

[wolfwint]

The people in Acts 8: 14, were already saved, [Born again of the Spirit], They had received the word of God got saved and was baptised in water, Vs 14--16. Then they were baptised in the Holy Ghost in v17.
And Saul, [Paul] was saved, [Born again of the Spirit], Acts 9: 6. He surrendered his will to God, V6. He had a vision, v12.
Ananias called Him, "Brother Saul". Then he received the baptism in the Holy Ghost, v17.


The disciples in Acts 19: 2-6, were saved for who knows how long, but they didn't receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost until Paul laid his hands on them, V 6.
Please note, Paul called them beliebter, V2, And Paul should know, Plus, Paul knew there was a separate experience to the rebirth, otherwise why would he say, "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed", If there was only one experience, Paul would have know they had received the Holy Ghost.

Some of the disciples were born again in Jn 20: 22, but they wasn't baptised in the Holy Ghost until Acts 2.
Two different experiences.

Jesus had already revealed His plan for all people.
Believers will speak in tongues, [Have the baptism in the Holy Ghost]. Mk 16: 17. Lk 24: 49.Jn 7: 37--39. Acts 1: 4--5.

The Baptism in the Holy Ghost isn't just to get people saved, [Although it does give us the power to be a witness] Acts 1: 8.
It's so we can do the same works as Jesus, Jn 14: 12, And we have the same Holy Ghost, Jn 14: 16--17.

Well, some reply i das was given from Valliant.
I want add some points. What is about Thomas he was not with the other disciples in John 20.
What is with acts 10? The house of cornelius received the Holy Spirit in time when the gospel was shared to them. It was obviously one event and not two.
This topic with the baptising of the Holy Spirit as second event seems to be important for the miniszrie of christians. Why then we find in vhurchhisory no mention about this? Neither the churchfathers nor the Reformators taught this. It occurs with the pentecostal movement around 1900 AD. in USA. That means all christians before this time went wrong in a important matter.

 

[RickyZ]

Thanks for your response and clarification, RickyZ.

I think it's best if I steer clear of conversations such as these--often I get a sick feeling in my stomach and rarely do I see brothers reaching a point of agreement, encouragement, and building each other up... here on CC.

It's amazing, to me, how two people can read the same passage and draw (seemingly) completely different conclusions!

I get that, and I try to take it only so far. I understand that we may interpret things differently and I'm ok with that. Roger is a special case because his error is not of interpretation. It is in direct conflict with and violation of God's word. Like when scripture says with faith we can move mountains. Some may interpret that as physical mountains, some as metaphorical mountains. And I can live with those differences (personally I think it's both). But when Rog then says 'you're never going to move any mountain with your faith', that I take umbrage with. Too, a lot of what Roger believes AND TEACHES OTHERS is borderline blaspheme. Brought on by his lack of acceptance and understanding of God's word.

I really don't care to beat a dead horse for too long. But I'm hopin' Roger's not fully dead yet

 

[RickyZ]

And btw Roger, if you read and understood what I wrote you'd know that I bash the charismatic/pentecostal thing as much as you do.

More reason why I say, you don't properly take in and understand what you read.

Been fun. See ya on the next one

 

[notuptome]

I challenge you to open the bible and DILIGENTLY study the verses you say are defunct.

ask yourself "what if it really is true....Jesus is still working miracles?"

There are three sign gifts that have ended.

I guess I will be required to specifically state that in every post so as not to be taken out of context.

Quick to judge and slow to understand.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

There are only 2 powers. 1)Jesus,2)the devil

The devil CAN NOT answer a prayer to Jesus.

mat 7;6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

luke 11;11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
14 And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came to pass, when the devil was gone out, the dumb spake; and the people wondered.
15 But some of them said, He casteth out devils through Beelzebub the chief of the devils.
16 And others, tempting him, sought of him a sign from heaven.
17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

See that? Your primise you have been taught is WITHOUT MERIT.

Jesus even SHOWED YOU ,that that premise is hogwash.

Here it is again from a different angle;
mark 3;24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Again the ENTIRE BASIS for your premise is destroyed.

If you say so.

The three sign gifts ended. 1 Cor 13:8

The obsession of casting out demons is really a distraction from the gospel. Lead a soul to Christ and the demons lose their influence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[God4me]

Well, some reply i das was given from Valliant.
I want add some points. What is about Thomas he was not with the other disciples in John 20.
What is with acts 10? The house of cornelius received the Holy Spirit in time when the gospel was shared to them. It was obviously one event and not two.
This topic with the baptising of the Holy Spirit as second event seems to be important for the miniszrie of christians. Why then we find in vhurchhisory no mention about this? Neither the churchfathers nor the Reformators taught this. It occurs with the pentecostal movement around 1900 AD. in USA. That means all christians before this time went wrong in a important matter.

The disciples that were present in Jn 20: 22, received the Holy Ghost, [The rebirth], Peter did, because Jesus knew he had the Agape love of God in him. Jn 21: 15--17. But those who weren't there, was saved and baptised in the Holy Ghost at the same time. [And people can have that experience], as the Gentiles did in Acts 10. There is only one Holy Ghost, and He can save people and straight away baptised them with the Holy Ghost.
But the Bible teaches two different experiences.

Paul knew the importance of the baptism in the Holy Ghost and being constantly filled with Him.
You should go by what the Bible says, and not by what the Church fathers say, Or didn't say.

 

[God4me]

If you say so.

The three sign gifts ended. 1 Cor 13:8

The obsession of casting out demons is really a distraction from the gospel. Lead a soul to Christ and the demons lose their influence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

1 Cor 13: 8 doesn't say the gifts have ended, Does it??, No. It says they will end.
Some JWs said to me "The Bible says tongues will end", so I said I know it does, and just as they thought they proved me wrong, I said, "But it doesn't say they have ceased, DOES IT". Then it goes on to tell us when they will cease, And It isn't this side of eternity.

If tongues have ended, then so has Knowledge, and if knowledge has ended, then we might as well close our Bibles, close our Churches and stop preaching/teaching, because no one will be able to learn anything without knowledge.
Daniel said knowledge shall increase in the last days, Not end.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

If you say so.

The three sign gifts ended. 1 Cor 13:8

The obsession of casting out demons is really a distraction from the gospel. Lead a soul to Christ and the demons lose their influence.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

How do you get from "will end" to "has ended" ? (1 Cor 13:8)

 

[simplifiedtruth]

But an experience of WHAT?



you have had an 'experience'. I have proved from the word it is not what the Bible calls a 'baptism in the Holy Spirit'


it is questionable whether Mark 16.17 is Scripture.



Eisegesis is precisely what you did. You did not treat the Scriptures rightly,

[/COLOR][/FONT]

Correct, so get yourself right!



I exegeted, you eisegeted,



soooo? The rebirth by water, even of the Spirit (Isaiah 44.1-5), is the same as being baptised in the Spirit.

The experience of receiving the power of God to speak in tongues, heal and cast out demons. And the regeneration of the Spirit to life. Read these passages from the bible which proves to you the manifestation of the Spirit with Power for ALL who believe.

John 14:12 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greaterworks than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 14: If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Mark 16:14 [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and [/FONT]upbraided[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] t[/FONT]hem with their unbelief and hardness of heart[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], because they [/FONT]believed not [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]them which had seen him after he was risen. [/FONT]15[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [/FONT]

16[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He that[/FONT] believeth and is baptized shall be saved[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [/FONT]17[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And [/FONT]these signs shall follow[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] them that[/FONT] believe[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]; In my name shall they [/FONT]cast out devils[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]; they shall speak with [/FONT]new tongues[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]; [/FONT]18[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall[/FONT] lay hands [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]on the sick, and they shall [/FONT]recover.

Acts 1:4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And, being assembled together with [/FONT]them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

[/FONT]
14These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
15[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

1[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And[/FONT] when [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]the day of Pentecost was fully come, t[/FONT]hey were all with one accord in one place.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]2[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. [/FONT]3[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [/FONT]4[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And they were all [/FONT]filled with the Holy Ghost[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], and began to [/FONT]speak with other tongues[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], as the [/FONT]Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:37 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now when they heard [/FONT]this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.[/FONT]

42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Acts 6:7 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.[/FONT]8And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 8:4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. 5Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.6And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. 8And there was great joy in that city.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
9But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. 18And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, 19Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. 20But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. 21Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.23For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity. 24Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Acts 9:15 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: [/FONT]16[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. [/FONT]17[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [/FONT]even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

32And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda. 33And there he found a certain man named AEneas, which had kept his bed eight years, and was sick of the palsy. 34And Peter said unto him, AEneas, Jesus Christ maketh thee whole: arise, and make thy bed. And he arose immediately. 35And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned to the Lord.

40But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up. 41And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive. 42And it was known throughout all Joppa; and many believed in the Lord.
Acts 10:44 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:15 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

24For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Acts 13:2 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acts 14:8 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acts 15:8 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 16:16 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.19And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, 21And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans.

Acts 17:10 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [/FONT]thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Acts 19:1 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]6[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And when[/FONT] Paul had laid his hands upon them[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], the [/FONT]Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], and prophesied. [/FONT]7[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And all the men were about [/FONT]twelve[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acts 19:13 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified. 18And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. 19Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

Acts 20:27 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 32And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Acts 28:1 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita. 2And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold. 3And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. 6Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.

7In the same quarters were possessions of the chief man of the island, whose name was Publius; who received us, and lodged us three days courteously. 8And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him. 9So when this was done, others also, which had diseases in the island, came, and were healed: 10Who also honoured us with many honours; and when we departed, they laded us with such things as were necessary.

Acts 28:23 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not. 25And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,26Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:27For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear withtheir ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.28Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.30And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.



[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Now the Kingdom of God is not in word, but in [/FONT]Power: 1 Corin 4:20 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]For the kingdom of God [/FONT]is not in word, but in power.

Hebrews 13:7 7Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. 9Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines.

Ephesians 4:30 30And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Mark 16:17 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 18And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 19Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.20Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

The Promise is to you, and to whom so ever God shall call !

 

[CS1]

There is miracles in almost every chapter of the book of acts.

It even says "and great miracles were done at the hands of the apostles".

You seem to think the opposite.

The only way to that conclusion is to literally cut that bible up and throw out the power of God.

actually not at all; I agree with your statement about Acts. And I do believe the bible teaches the " Gifts of the Holy Spirit " are for today and explained in 1 cor chapter 12, 13, and 14. They are called the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and not exclusively the Gifts of the apostles . And in chapter 12 it is stated very clearly HE the Holy Spirit distributes them for the benefit of all. I agree with this .

The difference is those who do not, I will not say they are attacking the Spirit of God or suggest they are blaspheming the Holy Ghost. Not that you have done that . Just my opinion as i believe the Bible speaks on the subject. and If those here do not that's ok

 

[wincam]

if you have the King you don't need anything not even the Holy Spirit - he who has the son has the father also and he who has both the father and the son has the Holy Spirit - wincam

 

[RickyZ]

The difference is those who do not, I will not say they are attacking the Spirit of God or suggest they are blaspheming the Holy Ghost.

The sticky part is that when people deny that a bonafide gift is not of the Holy Spirit, they imply that it is then from another source. And what other spiritual source is there but satan? It's not an outright attribution of the work of the Spirit to satan, but by process of elimination that's what they end up with.

 

[CS1]

if you have the King you don't need anything not even the Holy Spirit - he who has the son has the father also and he who has both the father and the son has the Holy Spirit - wincam

I do not believe that to be biblical " you don't need anything not even the Holy Spirit". The gospel of John 14 and 16 Jesus speaking says we do. And we Need the Holy Spirit.

 

[CS1]

The sticky part is that when people deny that a bonafide gift is not of the Holy Spirit, they imply that it is then from another source. And what other spiritual source is there but satan? It's not an outright attribution of the work of the Spirit to satan, but by process of elimination that's what they end up with.

I do not think that to be true either that is an assumption. If it is bonafide as stated then it cannot be challenged even if it is not accepted. Jesus said that in JOhn 9 or 11 . when one doesn't accept the work of God and speaks out of an unlearned mind then it is opinionated, and should not draw immediately it is suggesting the work of satan .

 

[RobbyEarl]

I will not leave you Orphans but I leave you the helper (Paraclete) and he will remind you of everything I said.

 

[wincam]

The sticky part is that when people deny that a bonafide gift is not of the Holy Spirit, they imply that it is then from another source. And what other spiritual source is there but satan? It's not an outright attribution of the work of the Spirit to satan, but by process of elimination that's what they end up with.

it is denied as a bonafide gift - see Jn.14:17/1Cor.2:14/13:8 - wncam

 

[CS1]

it is denied as a bonafide gift - see Jn.14:17/1Cor.2:14/13:8 - wncam

explain your point wincam please