the big big big mistake is mis interpretation and confusion in applying to ourselves as all and sundry what only applied to the Apostles and early disciples and no longer applied after the church was firmly established and NT available e.g. at Jn.14:17 the world means us and you means the likes of Thomas, Philip and the others - wincam
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I hear you...it's more like "unbelieving" believers. I know that all of us don't really believe all that the New Covenant brought to us but we are having our minds renewed day by day if we are open to the Holy Spirit.
Well, you certainly stick to your guns, even if they are out of bullets and pointing in the wrong direction.
I have already proven to you from I Corinthians 13 that it does not teach that all three of those gifts have or will cease.
"...that which is in part shall be done away..." and "we know in part"
But knowledge is not done away with. Knowing in part is to be done away with.
We know knowledge is not done away with because Paul writes, "but then I shall know fully, even as I am known."
Hi God4me, thank you for your patience with me.
to point1: As I wrote before, this event was reportet to show that also the samaritians, the from the jewish outcastet and despised folk was meant to save through Jesus Christ. For this has to come somebody who was a authority for the Jews. And this was Peter. Similar we find in acts 10 when Peter was shown from God that the nations also belong to His salvationplan. Along with his 6 jewish brothers it was witness and a sign for them when Cornelius and his house expierienced the same what happend at the pentecost day in jerusalem. I cant find in this a prrof for a baptising with the Holy Spirit according your doctrine.
to point 2. acts 9,6 says nothing about Sauls born again expierience. To be shown a vison from god has nothing to do with bein g born again ore not. Cornelius in acts 10,2 ff also had a vison from god without beeing born again.
to point 3; that is difficult to proof! There is no scripture to support this suggestion. It sems more to be the same sign character that we find in acts 8, 10 ore even 2.
The thing we have so much of denominations and also sects is, that people use the scripture as they want to supply there doctrine or view. Its a question of hermeneutik and exegetic.
I do not let rule history over the scripture.
We have to recognize that all doctrine has to proof through the scriptures. We are finding plenty doctrines and teachings and all are saying this is the word of god. But all doctrines are made by humans. The problem i mentioned above.
According Pauls letter of 1st Corinthians we can find doctrine about the gifts of the holy Spirit in the church of corinth. So if we would visit this church we would find all these gifts which Paul mentioned.
Now the pentecostal and charismatic movement claim that the doctrine of the baptising of the HolySpirit with the manifestations of speaking in tongues is from God.
If so then we could and would expect that we find right this doctrine in the worldwide church also between 90 AD and 1900 AD, too. But this is not happend!! Non of the denominations based of reformation and this are all, except the RCC mention in there doctrines ore teachings the baptising with the Holy Spirit as a second blessing with manifestation speaking in tongues. If you find one please let me know.
In the sigth of pentecostal and charismatic movement thsi is such a important doctrine for the believer, that how this is not mention in the history? Some are going so far to say, without having this second baptising and dont speaking in tongues you are not a right christian.
If this baptising is from God, how it comes that this doctrine find open door in a wing of RCC and accepting the false teachings of the RCC? How it can come that woman pastors are more and more are acceptet. The scripture is clear,that it is not allowed to rule over man ore to teach them. Is working the Holy Spirit against ther word of God?
This all questions doubting me to trust this doctrine!
Roger, I and many others have tried patiently and repeatedly to show you scripture. You are unwilling to listen and consider. So, would parading Gods word in front of you for the umpteenth time really make any difference? Methinks not. You're not going to listen and consider so why waste my time anymore?
But I will answer one thing... why would I want the so-called ceased gifts.
Because I want to speak in prayer over things I don't know about, but God does
Because we see thru the glass darkly at this time, and additional knowledge and wisdom are very helpful things
and of course
BECAUSE THE BIBLE TELLS US TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Question is, why do you want to exclude yourself from them?
Roger, I understand your skepticism, there's a LOT of falsehoods out there. And Paul does tell us that we should not do it rather than do it wrong. If you wish to abstain for those reasons, more power to you.
But time after time after time after time after time, done right they produce results that glorify God and edify others.
Why do you not want that?
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Amellinialman
Guest
Read John McArthur's book titled "Strange Fire." It is definitive.The apostle Paul said tongues will cease. The Greek word for tongues is "glossa" and it is more correctly translated languages. These charasmatics attempt to relive the day of Pentecost in the upper room where the disciples were given the gift of various languages to proclaim the Gospel. It is my hope that we know where these verses are if I do not give them. Nonetheless, the verses are in Acts. Charasmatics are self-centered and have no desire to give God glory. Their audio does not match their video. It is through the Holy Spirit to convict of sin and to grant repentence and forgiveness that points to the Cross. The Spirit will point to Christ. However, some will reject Him by their heretical doctrine and suppress the truth and deny the Sovereign Lord who bought them.
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Amellinialman
Guest
Tongues is NOT unintelligibe gibberish. Speaking in "tongues" is an intelligible speech. Acts 1 shoes that. Anyone who can rightly interpret Scripture can see that. God has blinded the eyes of those who pervert the Gospel. Paul has declared then Anathema i.e. cursed and for good measure a double curse. He who has ears to hear...beware.
that is your opinion but it is a very board brush you are using .
the Disciples were not the only ones who received the Empowerment on the day of pentecost the Book of acts records about 120 including the mother of Jesus our Lord.
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popeye
Guest
No we just incorporate the verses you leave out and let the Mcarthurites stew in their little slanderous stagnant hogwash.
I saw part of that mess on you tube .
Mike Brown did a response.
Good for him. We usually say nothing.
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Amellinialman
Guest
The point is "tongues" have ceased. Improper use of tongues is the issue. There can be no other way to interpret tongues other than an intelligible speech. Also, tongues were for the edification of the ecclesia, the saving power of the Holy Spirit by pointing to Jesus Christ. Misuse of tongues, being slain in the spirit "kundalini" a demonic hindu practice, laughing in the spirit (whatever that is), barking like dogs, falling backwards. All those things are demonic. Those who practice such things... Repent!
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Amellinialman
Guest
that is your opinion I do not believe that the gifts of the holy Spirit recorded in 1cor 12, 13, 14 are done away with. and all the gifts are misused not only tongues preach is a gift and misused more then tongues and so is the other gifts. I think it is true there are those who do wrongfully misuse them however, that is another subject. The Gift of the Holy Spirit which they are called in the word of God are for today.
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Amellinialman
Guest
The Toronto blessing was a farce. Kansas City in on its way. Remember the churches in the Apocalypse. Christ has removed the lampstand.
again I am not concerned about a Toronto Blessing I am concerned what the bible says about the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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popeye
Guest
I got a computer in 2006. Still typing on it this very moment.
That is when I met my first cessationists. (well in massive numbers anyway)
I was absolutely appalled at the vile hatred of the HS.
I think,had I not been fortunate enough to get saved in a charismatic fellowship,I could have ended up like them.
I think,should the Lord tarry,and the AC begin his murderous fling,they will turn us in as heretics and demons.
As one thread puts it "a cancerous growth on the 'body of christ'.
Dear God. Their hate is growing almost daily.
That is when I met my first cessationists. (well in massive numbers anyway)
I was absolutely appalled at the vile hatred of the HS.
I think,had I not been fortunate enough to get saved in a charismatic fellowship,I could have ended up like them.
I think,should the Lord tarry,and the AC begin his murderous fling,they will turn us in as heretics and demons.
As one thread puts it "a cancerous growth on the 'body of christ'.
Dear God. Their hate is growing almost daily.
Charismatics are self-centered and have no desire to give God glory. Discredited yourself right there.
There are people who I disagree with on many things...baptism, tithing, calvinism, KJV-onlyism...the list goes on...but I don't declare them "self-centered and hav[ing] no desire to give God glory" because of my theological differences with them.
I'm a Charismatic. Not only would I encourage people to read MacArthur's Strange Fire, I'd further encourage them to read Michael Brown's Authentic Fire, which is a response to MacArthur's "definitive" work.
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popeye
Guest
I remember people like you would come to the Brownsville revival. They came to disrupt and persecute us. They were from Ruckmans church.
Basically nutcases.
