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I agree with this and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and are just trying to "defend the faith".
None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )
This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.
Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.
Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".
They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.
This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )
This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
You know, I just caught the thread title head on,
and realized how disgusting it really is.
The man is a human being, and despite how you feel about certain ways he teaches, he's obviously not deliberately trying to hurt people or run Jesus into the ground, or get some kind of evil delight out of sending people to hell,
I wonder how you'd feel if that was your dad that was being put on display on an international chat site being called a cancerous growth?!
A 'christian' chat site, no less!
One that's frequented by more pompous, arrogant, self-righteous
purveyors of false teaching and works-righteous-based salvation
than a shark has teeth.
Hebrews 13:1, Let brotherly love continue.
Think about it.
and realized how disgusting it really is.
The man is a human being, and despite how you feel about certain ways he teaches, he's obviously not deliberately trying to hurt people or run Jesus into the ground, or get some kind of evil delight out of sending people to hell,
I wonder how you'd feel if that was your dad that was being put on display on an international chat site being called a cancerous growth?!
A 'christian' chat site, no less!
One that's frequented by more pompous, arrogant, self-righteous
purveyors of false teaching and works-righteous-based salvation
than a shark has teeth.
Hebrews 13:1, Let brotherly love continue.
Think about it.
This statement is wrong because it does not properly describe what is being in the kingdom, what is sin and what is choice.
A sinner cannot choose because they are lost, but a saved cleansed person can. This difference matters.
The world is lost in sin, because sin comes from a lack of communion with God, so until you have communion there is no resolution. Once this relationship is established you then can choose to follow or walk away.
And sadly many do exactly that. If one is serious about the source of sin is a lack of communion, the communion brings the potential to walk in purity and righteousness. If this was not possible then salvation is just a label on sinners, which is just because of a chance encounter and a heavenly legal transaction. That model is simply a lie, and just another group ticket to heaven irrelevant to who you are and what you do as a result.
A sinner cannot choose because they are lost, but a saved cleansed person can. This difference matters.
The world is lost in sin, because sin comes from a lack of communion with God, so until you have communion there is no resolution. Once this relationship is established you then can choose to follow or walk away.
And sadly many do exactly that. If one is serious about the source of sin is a lack of communion, the communion brings the potential to walk in purity and righteousness. If this was not possible then salvation is just a label on sinners, which is just because of a chance encounter and a heavenly legal transaction. That model is simply a lie, and just another group ticket to heaven irrelevant to who you are and what you do as a result.
So true. The Bible couldn't be any more clear on that point. Even the people who will stubbornly go on to punishment had their sins ALREADY "paid for" by Christ.... only they will not accept, as a reality, that payment. They make a mockery of Jesus having died for them and will never know the benefits ALREADY awaiting their acceptance... because they will not believe it actually happened.
Unfortunately I have to agree with you and to some Christians this is very acceptable behavior too and then they cry about transgender bathrooms but neglect the very life of God in us to rip apart a fellow believer in Christ.
It's shameful and it is only malice that they have towards someone that is a teacher in the body of Christ - that they don't agree with in some doctrinal statement so it's ok behave like this. It is without a doubt ungodly behavior no matter how they try to mask it and make excuses for it.
It's shameful and it is only malice that they have towards someone that is a teacher in the body of Christ - that they don't agree with in some doctrinal statement so it's ok behave like this. It is without a doubt ungodly behavior no matter how they try to mask it and make excuses for it.
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Titus 2: 11-14
“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.”
Jesus is the Grace of God personified
“For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.”
Jesus is the Grace of God personified
There are three parallel phrases in this passage. All of them put God, in various forums in the genitive.
"the grace of God"
"The blessed hope of our great God and Saviour, Christ Jesus."
"The glory of our great God and Saviour, Christ Jesus.
Your grammatical application then is this:
"Jesus is the Grace of God - personified"
"Jesus is the blessed hope of God - personified"
"Jesus is the glory of God - personified"
While I don't disagree that Jesus is the grace, blessed hope and glory of God, none of these statements in Greek or English implies the final word PERSONIFIED. Because we do not need to give human status to the attributes of God. We certainly don't need to give human status to the atttributes of deity! Because, in fact, when you take these attributes you are not actually personifying anything. Rather, you are deifying them - making them like God. Kind of a violation of the first commandment and pretty much everything else in the Old and New Testaments.
This is because God - The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - are so much greater than just those three attributes or characteristics!!
In fact, the phrase "the grace of God has appeared" is the following in Greek.
"Ἐπεφάνη γὰρ ἡ χάρις τοῦ θεοῦ σωτήριος πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις" Titus 2:11 Greek
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people," Titus 2:11 ESV.
Ephephana or Ἐπεφάνη is thrown to the front of the sentence, indicating it is the most important part of the clause - this is a common practice in Greek, although you need to put this verb after the subject (the grace of God) in English to make sense.
Ἐπεφάνη is Aorist Indicative Passive. It means "to appear; passive to be made clear, to be made manifest. The essential meaning of the word is "to appear suddenly. It is used particularly of divine interposition, especially aid, and of the dawning of light upon darkness."
In fact, reading the entire chapter, it seems likely that the phrase "the grace of God" is actually referring to the Holy Spirit in this passage because Jesus did not "suddenly appear," but the Holy Spirit did on the day of Pentecost. Nor is Jesus the one charged with instructing us in how to live, as we wait for the "appearing" of Jesus Christ, who has redeemed us. This is a case of how the Spirit is not the Son, although they have the same attribute - grace!
Which kind of blows your whole statement out of the water!
Anyway, I am also glad you posted in context, since verse 14 really ties this whole section about grace, and our blessed hope and the glory of Jesus together, and why we have them. Grace is NOT the cause or source, but rather Jesus Christ is.
" ὃς ἔδωκεν ἑαυτὸν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἵνα λυτρώσηται ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ πάσης ἀνομίας καὶ καθαρίσῃ ἑαυτῷ λαὸν περιούσιον, ζηλωτὴν καλῶν ἔργων." Titus 2:14 Greek
"who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works" Titus 2:14 ESV
(The word "who" a relative pronoun refers back to Christ Jesus in the previous verse.)
The whole point of this passage in Titus is not to prove anything about grace, but in fact to remind us of what Christ did on our behalf. "He gave himself" ἔδωκεν ἑαυτὸν - edokan is in the Aorist Indicative Active and eauton is in the accusative meaning it is the object of who gave - he gave himself. It is the act of giving himself - this indicates Christ's willing, gracious gift of himself. Aorist points to the act of "giving himself."
And what did he give himself for? To redeem, to obtain release by the payment of a price, to ransom- λυτρώσηται - Aorist Subjunctive Middle. And ransom who? Well, us, praise the Lord! (ἡμᾶς)
So this passage actually takes us back to the cross - and that Jesus died on the cross for us. He definitely did this because of his grace, there is no arguing that! But it was not "Grace" that died on the cross and paid the price of our redemption, but the man Jesus Christ, who is also fully God.
This is a matter of being theological confused, when you try and personify, or worse, deify the attributes of God. And it makes it look like those who believe that Jesus did come to die for us, and that he saved us by his efficacious grace, do not believe in the amazing grace of God, which we all do. I believe in the grace that comes from God - because God applied his grace to me, and redeemed my life from the pit of hell. But note - it is God's grace - that grace which belongs to him.
Efficacious grace refers to the special application of grace to a person who comes by faith to Christ for salvation. It is a special act* of God that brings about the true salvation of a person. Efficacious grace is grace because it effects the purpose for which it is given.
It is efficacious simply because it is God's grace. And this is the genitive case in English - it indicates possession or ownership. God owns or possesses the grace - the grace does not stand alone. It does not have a life or personality of its own. (Personify - implies giving it personhood or personality!)
Sorry if this post got rather technical. But it is important, because this passage also exposes the lie of hypergrace, as opposed to the truth of the grace of God. (The grace belonging to God!)
*act - the unmerited favour which is grace - not a person!
My brothers and sisters in Jesus Christ, instead of tearing each other down, we need to be lifting each other up. If Joseph Prince has something devious going on, that is between him and God. The world is already so strong against us. At least he is up there preaching the word of God, and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. Think about that. Have you ever listened to a preacher who said 100% of what you agree with, through the whole sermon? Just disregard that and take the word of the Lord that is for you.
I just came here to write a few things for my fellow Christians, who have our sights on heaven and are trying to live our lives every day for Jesus, in order to be with him forever, if God's grace starts to shine and lift you up in life, there is nothing that can stop you. And I also want to say, that we should also, constantly keep encouraging each other. If God has placed it in your heart to do it, do it, and do not wait. If it is from God it will remain there, and years will pass if you put it off. Remain in the word of God in everything that you do, and God, who sees all, will see your works, and you will be rewarded for them, just as it says in the Lord's word. Remember to stay filled with the Holy Spirit, and the work of the Lord will be fulfilled in you.
I just came here to write a few things for my fellow Christians, who have our sights on heaven and are trying to live our lives every day for Jesus, in order to be with him forever, if God's grace starts to shine and lift you up in life, there is nothing that can stop you. And I also want to say, that we should also, constantly keep encouraging each other. If God has placed it in your heart to do it, do it, and do not wait. If it is from God it will remain there, and years will pass if you put it off. Remain in the word of God in everything that you do, and God, who sees all, will see your works, and you will be rewarded for them, just as it says in the Lord's word. Remember to stay filled with the Holy Spirit, and the work of the Lord will be fulfilled in you.
Here is a scripture that has grace and it's relationship to the revelation of Jesus. We are to fix our hope completely on the grace that is being brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Here is another goodie!
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Grace is not a 4th member of the Trinity..it is what we get when we see Jesus. Grace is not the fullness of our Lord but it is all Him. Who can fathom His fullness?
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Here is another goodie!
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Grace is not a 4th member of the Trinity..it is what we get when we see Jesus. Grace is not the fullness of our Lord but it is all Him. Who can fathom His fullness?
Romans 5:6-9
King James Version(KJV)
6.)For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7.)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8.)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9.)Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
+++
Romans 5:1-3
King James Version(KJV)
1.)Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2.)By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3.)And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
+++
BTW,this Is unconditional.Romans 5:8
King James Version(KJV)
6.)For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7.)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8.)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9.)Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
+++
Romans 5:1-3
King James Version(KJV)
1.)Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2.)By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3.)And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
+++
BTW,this Is unconditional.Romans 5:8
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Thanks brother.
You know, it's funny, but the way I and alot of other folks have been demeaned, because some ppl don't like our 'tone of voice', (ha), ... they'll commit and allow false accusations, but if we call a liar a liar, they act like we've commited the unpardonable sin. But at least we can engage each other......A few unsavory words? Good gosh.
But they have no problem calling a pastor who's not even here to defend himself things like a cancerous growth? Anybody here ever had cancer?
Know a loved one who did?
You know, it's funny, but the way I and alot of other folks have been demeaned, because some ppl don't like our 'tone of voice', (ha), ... they'll commit and allow false accusations, but if we call a liar a liar, they act like we've commited the unpardonable sin. But at least we can engage each other......A few unsavory words? Good gosh.
But they have no problem calling a pastor who's not even here to defend himself things like a cancerous growth? Anybody here ever had cancer?
Know a loved one who did?
Amen
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Just in case I have thoroughly confused everyone about where I stand, I do believe in eternal security. But I believe that because God saves us, he also convicts us of sin, after we are saved. This is part of the process of sanctification.
I do not believe we can lose our salvation. But assurance of our salvation does not guarantee perfection.
I also do not believe hypergrace is right, esp. Having just re-read some of the info posted by Grace777. It is some truth mixed with some untruth. A very deadly combination.
Surely there is a middle to this discussion? That we are saved by the grace through the faith that God gives us, because of the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, who paid for our sin. Yes, all our sin.
So do we then decide we can do whatever we want? If we are walking with Christ, the Holy Spirit is leading us - he will pull us back when we go astray, for sure! BUT, going astray requires repentance before God. And that is part of being sanctified - being made more and more aware of what displeases God, and allowing the Holy Spirit to not only teach us, but transform us.
And that middle ground is so important! Because either extreme will limit our growth and maturity in God. If we sin freely and wilfully, we will lose that close walk with God. And anyone who says they can sin freely and walk with God is a liar.
But, if we live in fear of losing our salvation if we do sin, we are living in fear, and it will also stop us from maturing in our walk with God. And this I say from experience, having been taught and living in fear of losing my salvation for at least 20 years, and not growing one tiny bit in all those years!
Yet hypergrace teachers are simply not teaching they progressive journey of salvation, either! Instead, the Word Faith teachers are saying when God justifies us, we are also glorified at that moment, instead of evidence to the contrary, ie sin in our lives. Or worse, these false teachers tell us we can sin freely, because God already forgave that sin on the cross. Well, he did, but we still need to confess it, in order to mature and grow - in other words - be sanctified.
I know I have said this over and over, but here it is again. Please pay attention as this will be on the final! (By the way, I learned this process from reading my Bible. It is where I also learned I would not lose my salvation. That is why we need to read and study the Bible - and not pull verses out to support our preconceived ideas, but rather to let God teach us the truth from his Word.)
The Process of Salvation
Justification - God saves us (Romans 5:1). We are not perfect experientially, only positionally.
Sanctification - God is in the process of transforming us into the image of Christ. (Romans 12:2; 2 Cor. 3:18) We are not perfect. we are on a journey with the Holy Spirit leading and guiding us. And yes, we NEED to confess our sins! (1 John 1:8-2:2) On earth, this is the main part of our Christian walk - unless we are saved on our deathbed.
Glorification - Jesus returns or we see Jesus face to face. We are made into the image of God (but we are NOT God!). 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor. 13:12) We do not sin any longer. This is eternity with Christ!
I do not believe we can lose our salvation. But assurance of our salvation does not guarantee perfection.
I also do not believe hypergrace is right, esp. Having just re-read some of the info posted by Grace777. It is some truth mixed with some untruth. A very deadly combination.
Surely there is a middle to this discussion? That we are saved by the grace through the faith that God gives us, because of the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, who paid for our sin. Yes, all our sin.
So do we then decide we can do whatever we want? If we are walking with Christ, the Holy Spirit is leading us - he will pull us back when we go astray, for sure! BUT, going astray requires repentance before God. And that is part of being sanctified - being made more and more aware of what displeases God, and allowing the Holy Spirit to not only teach us, but transform us.
And that middle ground is so important! Because either extreme will limit our growth and maturity in God. If we sin freely and wilfully, we will lose that close walk with God. And anyone who says they can sin freely and walk with God is a liar.
But, if we live in fear of losing our salvation if we do sin, we are living in fear, and it will also stop us from maturing in our walk with God. And this I say from experience, having been taught and living in fear of losing my salvation for at least 20 years, and not growing one tiny bit in all those years!
Yet hypergrace teachers are simply not teaching they progressive journey of salvation, either! Instead, the Word Faith teachers are saying when God justifies us, we are also glorified at that moment, instead of evidence to the contrary, ie sin in our lives. Or worse, these false teachers tell us we can sin freely, because God already forgave that sin on the cross. Well, he did, but we still need to confess it, in order to mature and grow - in other words - be sanctified.
I know I have said this over and over, but here it is again. Please pay attention as this will be on the final! (By the way, I learned this process from reading my Bible. It is where I also learned I would not lose my salvation. That is why we need to read and study the Bible - and not pull verses out to support our preconceived ideas, but rather to let God teach us the truth from his Word.)
The Process of Salvation
Justification - God saves us (Romans 5:1). We are not perfect experientially, only positionally.
Sanctification - God is in the process of transforming us into the image of Christ. (Romans 12:2; 2 Cor. 3:18) We are not perfect. we are on a journey with the Holy Spirit leading and guiding us. And yes, we NEED to confess our sins! (1 John 1:8-2:2) On earth, this is the main part of our Christian walk - unless we are saved on our deathbed.
Glorification - Jesus returns or we see Jesus face to face. We are made into the image of God (but we are NOT God!). 1 John 3:2, 1 Cor. 13:12) We do not sin any longer. This is eternity with Christ!
This below is what I have heard being preached from grace teachers in regard to sanctification and I have listen to over a thousand different messages ( from many different people with many different theological backgrounds ) and none have ever said to go and sin all you want.
I was not taught the gospel of the grace of Christ from a person - especially Joseph Prince because when I first saw him - I thought he was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with my religious upbringing beliefs and would not listen to him.
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive...passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us is changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
His life inside of us by the Holy Spirit ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) will transform us as we see Christ and get the revelation of His completed work.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
I was not taught the gospel of the grace of Christ from a person - especially Joseph Prince because when I first saw him - I thought he was a heretic too because he "conflicted" with my religious upbringing beliefs and would not listen to him.
This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"
We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....
However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.
God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.
Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
( who are sanctified this is present passive...passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us is changing us. )
Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal
Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )
It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.
His life inside of us by the Holy Spirit ( 2 Cor. 3:17-18 ) will transform us as we see Christ and get the revelation of His completed work.
1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."
Let the Holy Scripture of God, speak truth on this matter.
Heavy burden ???
Are you aware of King David story, how he sin against the LORD,by taking another man's wife Bathsheba and murder a innocent man, confess of His wrong doing ???
2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
Do you remember King David when he order to count the people , knowing God said not to do so, confess to the LORD of his wrong doing ???
Question did King David feel as you describe , it was a burden to acknowledge he was not in the right with God Almighty ???
I believe you can agree hopefully, he was happy to walk according to God ways, and acknowledge his wrong doing, David had God Holyspirit in him
But i guess you and others might say ,but but this is OT, we are in the New Covenent in Christ Jesus.
Let us continue to examine upon this issue...
King David is just one example of many in the Holy scripture, how would you bring into account the congregations that were spoken upon in the Book of Revelation, the LORD sent message to them to REPENT, these were not new Believers in Christ.
Question what if you were part of that congregation , that is spoken upon in Revelation, to the seven churches in the province of Asia. The messager of the LORD came to declare such a thing to your congregation REPENT or be remove thy candlestick , would you rather hearken to that messager that Jesus Christ Himself sent, or would you instead Hearken to a man in a suit that made merchandise of people , and twist the truth of God into there own ideology that is man made,that tells you once is enough for God ???
This Question is towards the following individuals:
Seed_time_harvest
ladylynn
Budman
Grace777x70
And anyone else that thinks alike, this is not a joke there are guest reading these forums, and new believers in Christ, this is a serious discussion.
Who would you stand with God truth, or rather with, those ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness. ???
This is the truth in New Covenent , in Christ Jesus even after your saved, REPENT...
Shalom
Heavy burden ???
Are you aware of King David story, how he sin against the LORD,by taking another man's wife Bathsheba and murder a innocent man, confess of His wrong doing ???
2 Samuel 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
Do you remember King David when he order to count the people , knowing God said not to do so, confess to the LORD of his wrong doing ???
[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1Chronicles 12:17[/FONT]
And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.Question did King David feel as you describe , it was a burden to acknowledge he was not in the right with God Almighty ???
I believe you can agree hopefully, he was happy to walk according to God ways, and acknowledge his wrong doing, David had God Holyspirit in him
But i guess you and others might say ,but but this is OT, we are in the New Covenent in Christ Jesus.
Let us continue to examine upon this issue...
King David is just one example of many in the Holy scripture, how would you bring into account the congregations that were spoken upon in the Book of Revelation, the LORD sent message to them to REPENT, these were not new Believers in Christ.
Question what if you were part of that congregation , that is spoken upon in Revelation, to the seven churches in the province of Asia. The messager of the LORD came to declare such a thing to your congregation REPENT or be remove thy candlestick , would you rather hearken to that messager that Jesus Christ Himself sent, or would you instead Hearken to a man in a suit that made merchandise of people , and twist the truth of God into there own ideology that is man made,that tells you once is enough for God ???
This Question is towards the following individuals:
Seed_time_harvest
ladylynn
Budman
Grace777x70
And anyone else that thinks alike, this is not a joke there are guest reading these forums, and new believers in Christ, this is a serious discussion.
Who would you stand with God truth, or rather with, those ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness. ???
This is the truth in New Covenent , in Christ Jesus even after your saved, REPENT...
Shalom
Well, look what I did!
Shame on me, I never looked first at WHO actually started the thread, or why, I just got caught off-guard by the calling JoePrince a cancer.
Okay, now Lynn, (Depleted) is a friend of mine, and a sister in Christ, so obviously my comments had nothing to do with her personally, and when I referred to the arrogant ones who preach works-righteousness on this site, I WAS NOT including Lynndepleted in that!
Still...I fully expect to get slapped in the head by her at her first opportunity, either in pm or public, it doesn't matter, I deserve it.
In fact, I'd be disappointed if she didn't, I'd think she doesn't love me anymore.
It goes to show I should get all the facts before responding, and I should know better, I'm sorry, however, it doesn't change the fact that 'cancerous growth' is really harsh, and the guy isn't here to defend himself.
I haven't heard him enough to make a full judgement...I think I lean away from his teaching, some of it, at least. But I think we're better served discussing scripture and Jesus, than using other peoples videos to either defend or argue against someone's opinions here.
All in all, I'm guessing JoePrince is a pretty decent guy...I know I could be wrong...but I wish he would come on this site himself and answer some of the charges directly so the rest of us could make a better judgement call.
There are far worse 'christian preachers' more deserving of the thread title, imo, but even then, if they're not here to talk to, I think I'd refrain from calling them that. Actually, I wish we could lift up our Lord Jesus Christ together because of the salvation He's purchased for us and the victory He gives to us, over sin and death, and sickness...even cancer. Praise the Lord! \/
Shame on me, I never looked first at WHO actually started the thread, or why, I just got caught off-guard by the calling JoePrince a cancer.
Okay, now Lynn, (Depleted) is a friend of mine, and a sister in Christ, so obviously my comments had nothing to do with her personally, and when I referred to the arrogant ones who preach works-righteousness on this site, I WAS NOT including Lynndepleted in that!
Still...I fully expect to get slapped in the head by her at her first opportunity, either in pm or public, it doesn't matter, I deserve it.
In fact, I'd be disappointed if she didn't, I'd think she doesn't love me anymore.
It goes to show I should get all the facts before responding, and I should know better, I'm sorry, however, it doesn't change the fact that 'cancerous growth' is really harsh, and the guy isn't here to defend himself.
I haven't heard him enough to make a full judgement...I think I lean away from his teaching, some of it, at least. But I think we're better served discussing scripture and Jesus, than using other peoples videos to either defend or argue against someone's opinions here.
All in all, I'm guessing JoePrince is a pretty decent guy...I know I could be wrong...but I wish he would come on this site himself and answer some of the charges directly so the rest of us could make a better judgement call.
There are far worse 'christian preachers' more deserving of the thread title, imo, but even then, if they're not here to talk to, I think I'd refrain from calling them that. Actually, I wish we could lift up our Lord Jesus Christ together because of the salvation He's purchased for us and the victory He gives to us, over sin and death, and sickness...even cancer. Praise the Lord! \
/
This is my testimony of what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life: This was taught to me by the Lord even before I ever heard of Prince ( as a matter of fact I thought Prince was a heretic because he "conflicted" with my religious beliefs that I heard all my life so I wouldn't watch him for the longest time.) or any other grace preacher.
I woke up one morning with a scripture in my spirit and for over about a year I kept getting one scripture after another and I wrote them all down. ( I still get the odd one that I add in my journal when the Lord highlights it to me )
When I started to go on line - lo and behold there were other people preaching what the Lord had already been showing me - independent of any one else influencing me.
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..
It will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.
I woke up one morning with a scripture in my spirit and for over about a year I kept getting one scripture after another and I wrote them all down. ( I still get the odd one that I add in my journal when the Lord highlights it to me )
When I started to go on line - lo and behold there were other people preaching what the Lord had already been showing me - independent of any one else influencing me.
I have a great passion for Christ!..here is what knowing Him because of the revelation of the gospel of the grace of Christ has done for me.
I was praying one morning and thinking about how the grace of Christ has affected me. I had the scripture come up in my spirit where the Pharisees were arguing about whether a man was born blind or not after Jesus healed him. Of course the Pharisees were trying to discredit the message of Jesus. The man said.." All I know is that I was born blind but now I see."
This is what the gospel of the grace of Christ has done in my life:
I realize that these beliefs in the grace of God....especially the acceptance grace and the total forgiveness that Jesus bought and paid for with His blood....that these can be offensive to our religious beliefs and what we have been taught in church. ( they were initially to me as well )
This gospel of the wondrous grace of Christ has had a beautiful affect on me. I am more in love with Jesus and the Father more then ever....in love with studying His word....praying in the spirit constantly with a heart full of joy!
This gospel has given me a compassion for other people and to reach out in love to them. To give more than I ever have with a heart full of love.
To live a holier life in Him...to be a witness of the life and love of our Lord in me.
If these are the horrible fruit of the grace of Christ in me....I want more!.....give me more grace please my Lord and God!
I am living a much fuller life now, more deeply in love with Jesus and the Father then ever before or ever dreamed was possible and I am just starting.
I am free from the horrible religion of self-effort, having the love of God pour out in me to help others now that I understand the grace that is in Christ then I did when I was doing the self-performance based gospel ( which is not the gospel )
I was blind but now I see. I see Jesus and His finished work for me!
It will always be in eternity "Worthy is the Lamb"..
It will never be.."Worthy is the Lamb......and me..because I did my own D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness to help Jesus out"
It has always been about Jesus and Him alone and it will always remain that way for all eternity.
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U
Thank you for sharing this and I can completely relate.
Understanding our full position in Christ came to me as well like another set of blinders being remove from my eyes even though I was a born again believer for thirty years.
I relearned how I am completely redeemed in Him, not looking at my sin and then following the lordship salvationists with their repent and confess cycle of sanctification. One preacher I met told me to take down the pictures from my walls because they were idolatrous.... sigh ...back to working at being good..the more I tried to avoid sin the more it found me.
Yet in all things with God one has to be in a certain spiritual place to understand the deeper riches of His grace and for them to be revealed.
Grace is the only power unto a holy life, it is the ultimate persuasion ….unfortunately grace has been redefined in modern evangelicalism as overlooking sin and this it is not. Now I understand why Paul so often said "grace and peace be multiplied to you" It can be you know.
AngelaLina
So you think this Scripture is talking about believers? Because my Bible says the wrath of God is not for the children. And as soon as we become children, we have repented. But this Scripture says that without repenting you are storing up wrath. Interesting. Do I think we need to repent? Not the way you might think of repentance. If we take a look at "repentance" it of course means meta noia. Which means change of mind. But there's a lot more about repentance than most people understand. You're not only turning away from something, but also turning toward something. When people struggle to understand grace it might be because they have turned away sin, but haven't yet turned toward the goodness and kindness of God. And because they don't understand His goodness and kindness they have mental repentance instead of joyful repentance. And to repentant even further from this point takes us straight into the new creation reality of who we now are in Christ, new creations who desire the things of God as they are written on our heart and mind. It is in this level of repentance that we begin to embrace concepts such as "getting to do" the things of God instead of "having to do them".
Because my Bible says His ways are not burdensome. Nor does He enslave. He frees.
C.
Because my Bible says His ways are not burdensome. Nor does He enslave. He frees.
C.
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