Common Misconceptions Of Hyper-Grace

[PeterJens]

There are some mindsets that need to be looked at.

Sin cannot be stopped, just compromise. You are a mystical creature who has no responsibility for your behaviour.
Until we meet Jesus, it is just this mystical relationship over which you have no choice or control.

The enemy are those who deny you just accept and let it all roll.

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:10-13

the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Sounds pretty conditional to me. They will hate you but you need to remain faithful. Are you in the Kingdom, then show it in your life, your heart and your walk. This kingdom does not compromise, because the world is all about compromise to just get by, and nothing really matters, who cares, it doesn't really matter.

Too many preachers and movements are just repeating this drivil.

 

[Grace777x70]

How the Gospel Removes the Power of Sin

[video=vimeo;11278728]https://vimeo.com/11278728[/video]

Listen to this one as it tells how the gospel of the grace of Christ deals with sin! Talk about a mis-conception that it leads people to want to sin.

 

[UnderGrace]

Ben

This is an important thread and I am very grateful you have started it, is important to uphold the truth.

In my experience though it seems to take a work of the Holy Spirit to really come to understand abounding grace because so many teachers keep mixing the law with grace and so our understanding of Truth gets muddled over the years, we are almost brainwashed and only the Holy Spirit can only set us free.

 

[PeterJens]

What leads people to sin? Pain, hurt, rejection, disappointment, lust, greed, gluttony, addiction etc.

Feeling you are accepted and loved, is not going to stop these things turning you upside down.
Unless Jesus has reached who you really are and love has been planted there, no hope, not a chance.

And the one big sign you have done this? Repentance, confession, faith in Christ and the cross to forgive you sins and cleanse you from all unrighteousness.

And the power of this gospel. Obedience and following Jesus, centred around the sermon on the mount.

You will find this movement does none of these things, and wants you attention and focus elsewhere.

The amount of verbage would fill a library, but the content and actual reality is very light. What is most important is you feeling accepted, you are ok where you are and you do not need to do anything, Jesus has done it all.

Just give your money to the group to get the blessings you have not got yet and you desire, because God really will give them to you, if you trust the pastor with a small blessing which will be returned 1000 fold.

Sounds like a bioler room scam. Put your shares with us and in two years it will triple in value. 3 years later, no money, no return.

 

[Ariel82]

There are some mindsets that need to be looked at.

Sin cannot be stopped, just compromise. You are a mystical creature who has no responsibility for your behaviour.
Until we meet Jesus, it is just this mystical relationship over which you have no choice or control.

The enemy are those who deny you just accept and let it all roll.

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:10-13

the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Sounds pretty conditional to me. They will hate you but you need to remain faithful. Are you in the Kingdom, then show it in your life, your heart and your walk. This kingdom does not compromise, because the world is all about compromise to just get by, and nothing really matters, who cares, it doesn't really matter.

Too many preachers and movements are just repeating this drivil.

Mysticism? Errrr. Seriously that is the current charge towards Ben or just the whole hyper grace movement?

Just want to know who you are inferring to hold to this doctrine.

 

[PeterJens]

Mysticism? Errrr. Seriously that is the current charge towards Ben or just the whole hyper grace movement?
Just want to know who you are inferring to hold to this doctrine.

I am using the principle of analogy. Let me take a sinner. Separate from God, no faith.
Day one communion with God through Christ, repentance, commitment to follow Jesus.
We know from experience inbuilt reactions, history still remain so often sinful behaviour patterns remain to be worked on, and worked through. But in this theology they are perfect, a new heart, born into them, with Christs imputed righteousness.
They are viewed as perfect, holy, pure etc. irrespective of behaviour.

Now whatever happens their future sin is forgiven, they are 100% guaranteed to go to heaven no matter what they do.
Everything is motivated by what the believer wants to do out of gratitude to God for saving them.

Now step back a bit. Remove the christian words, and behaviour other than the spiritual transaction. It is believe and you go to heaven no matter what happens after. The individual has zero responsibility and can never loose. The new heart is a gift from God and is already pure, holy as complete heavenly identity. And the believer has no responsibility for transformation or behaviour, God brings it about despite the believer.

This is mystical, ie no conscious participation by the believer except at the beginning and for some not even then.
So stripped down to its essentials, there is little in the structure that resembles the apostles intended.
Ok most of the beleivers are sincere guys who were deep into christian doctrine and belief so this continues even when you could say it is just an optional extra. It is why some people in the wakey end now have mystical conferences, and you have things like "fire" tunnels, the annointing of heavenly laughter etc. What I am looking for is boundaries and reasons why people would stop going nuts. From what I have seen a read, only is the "spirit" says no.

 

[UnderGrace]

Now step back a bit. Remove the christian words, and behaviour other than the spiritual transaction. It is believe and you go to heaven no matter what happens after. The individual has zero responsibility and can never loose. The new heart is a gift from God and is already pure, holy as complete heavenly identity. And the believer has no responsibility for transformation or behaviour, God brings it about despite the believer.

This is mystical, ie no conscious participation by the believer except at the beginning and for some not even then.

Hum, you cannot be a believer and make no conscious decision, you decide to believe and this is a conscious decision.

 

[Grace777x70]

I won't speak for anyone else but - I'm a believer. If the Lord says He washed my sin away with His blood. Hey - here's a novel thought - why not just humble myself and agree with what He says?

So, when we look at the word of God concerning a matter like forgiveness of sins - I look to what the scriptures say in light of the finished work of Christ and I humble myself to agree with His word. I agree with what He has said about me - not what man says.

Here is scripture after the Cross about forgiveness.

On the subject of forgiveness that we have in Christ now because of His precious Blood...here is what the scriptures say.....sometimes the truth in the gospel of the grace of Christ "conflicts" with what we have been religiously taught.

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect = The perfect tense expresses perfective action. Perfective action involves a present state which has resulted from a past action. The present state is a continuing state; the past action is a completed action. It is continuously happening in the present.

passive = voice = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous completed state in the present and that was put on them....not something they did.

Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...

and look...that grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to the riches of our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whomwe have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins

Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work.

Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!

Walk in the knowledge of your forgiveness in Christ and in that security we will experience maturity.

 

[PeterJens]

What does scripture say about what we are meant to do in response to God?

"Repent" What is repentance?

"But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.

None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.

Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"
Ezek 18:21-23

Repentance is a life change, stopping doing evil behaviour and doing righteous behaviour.

Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching heresy.

Many will preach apostacy, invent their own faiths, and dress it up in Jesus, change a few words here and there.
A key indicator this is happening when simple concepts, repentance, confession, forgiveness are changed from their traditional and scriptural setting into something new and the old meanings are just the corrupt understanding.

Next all the traditional believers are apostate, and these are the true believers.

Jehovah Witnesses do something similar, and mormons. It has gone on since man existed and will continue, it just matters to spot it happening and address it plain and simple.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hyper grace means that you can cheat on your wife,rob the bank, smoke pot, and snort cocaine, and drink liquor and beat your kids and it's all good. Jesus is love.

Legalism says you can do the same thing, Do some form of penance, and its all good. You still get to go to heaven.

 

[BenFTW]

Hyper grace means that you can cheat on your wife,rob the bank, smoke pot, and snort cocaine, and drink liquor and beat your kids and it's all good. Jesus is love.

No, that isn't hyper-grace. Thats someone that needs to come to Christ. lol They would be using God's grace as a license to sin and that is a misunderstanding and misapplication of God's grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are some mindsets that need to be looked at.

Sin cannot be stopped, just compromise. You are a mystical creature who has no responsibility for your behaviour.
Until we meet Jesus, it is just this mystical relationship over which you have no choice or control.

The enemy are those who deny you just accept and let it all roll.

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Matt 24:10-13

the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Sounds pretty conditional to me. They will hate you but you need to remain faithful. Are you in the Kingdom, then show it in your life, your heart and your walk. This kingdom does not compromise, because the world is all about compromise to just get by, and nothing really matters, who cares, it doesn't really matter.

Too many preachers and movements are just repeating this drivil.

If we have to "stand firm" Then we must save ourselves. Christ's sacrifice means nothing.. We can be worthy of our own doing. we can earn salvation.

I don't read this in my bible..

I read all have sinned and fall short.

I read I was saved not by my righteous deeds, but by Gods mercy

I read I was saved by Grace, Not works..

 

[BenFTW]

I think it should have stayed buried. I don't like the title and haven't read any other post fully.

Why can plain ordinary "grace" be good enough? Why does it have to be "hyper"?

Why go back and play in the mud? Why not a new thread?

Considering that is how people's theology is being defined it was an appropriate title. It isn't about going back in the mud or pride as you said in another thread, but about readdressing common misconceptions and lies spoken of about people who hold to doctrines that uplift and exalt Jesus Christ.

 

[Ariel82]

Considering that is how people's theology is being defined it was an appropriate title. It isn't about going back in the mud or pride as you said in another thread, but about readdressing common misconceptions and lies spoken of about people who hold to doctrines that uplift and exalt Jesus Christ.

If that is the goal, I believe it better done through conversation and the person's own words versus cut and paste articles. Some folks may find it helpful. Personally I have found the cut and paste articles to some what lacking in depth and prefer personal conversation versus impersonal words of a 3rd party.

 

[Grandpa]

Matthew 24:12 [FONT=&quot]And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

How is it possible that iniquity shall abound and the love of many will wax cold?

2 Corinthians 3:7 [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Precisely because people try to follow the old way and the old definition of sin, repentance, confession, etc... Following the letter, and their carnal understanding.

When we are made new we are given a new understanding. We are given a new spirit. We are given a new heart.

We follow after Grace. We are no longer under the old definitions of sin because they no longer have dominion over us. What exactly does that mean? It means if you go back to the old way you place yourself back under its laws and therefore the power of sin.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

So, you can call it hyper-grace because you can't fathom it. You can call it hyper-grace because you don't like it, because its not "fair". I just call it Grace, the embodiment of the Lord Jesus Christ.[/FONT]

 

[Nikki84]

Still sounds like a new Gospel and I know to stay away. The majority of TV preachers have this new Gospel if that tells you anything. It tells me to run!

 

[Grandpa]

New Life, New Spirit, New Heart. New Rules.

It is New.

You should check it out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Still sounds like a new Gospel and I know to stay away. The majority of TV preachers have this new Gospel if that tells you anything. It tells me to run!

So what's new about it. Care to share?

 

[Nikki84]

So what's new about it. Care to share?

Most have never heard of it. Its only a recent group as far as I can tell. I never heard of it until I came here

 

[Grace777x70]

For 1,300 years the catholic church was run by false teaching until Martin Luther came and said that the "just shall live by faith". He was told that this is new stuff and not the teaching of the church.

Luther said would you give me 24 hours to think about things. He came back and said - If you can show me by the scriptures where we are not saved by grace and faith in Christ -I will recant what I have said. They could not do it.

We need to view all things by scripture and sometimes our man-made religious traditions are some of the toughest strongholds in our minds to over come - because we think we are "defending the faith" but it can turn out we are really just "defending our religious traditions" instead.