CONDEMNATION IS THE ROOT CAUSE
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The allusion is definitely to Moses beholding GOD with an uncovered face, mirroring his glory so much that his face shown.
Now we all, with uncovered face mirroring the Lord's glory, are being transformed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as from the Lord, the spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18
Seriously?
We are not like Moses. He hid the glory because it faded.
2 Co 3:12Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.
But their minds were hardened. Our minds can get in the way of seeing the glory of God.
14But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
The same veil remains except through Christ. You don't get it unless you're IN HIM. Did you catch that?
He goes on to connect the mind and the heart.
15Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
16But when one[SUP]c[/SUP] turns to the Lord, the veil is removed
TURNS TO THE LORD. Looking at Christ now. Spirit of the Lord.
17Now the Lord[SUP]d[/SUP] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom
And we all looking at His glory. Seeing Him. Are being transformed into the same image.
18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,[SUP]e[/SUP] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Scripture even says you're deceiving yourself when you look into the law of liberty. And forget what you look like.
James 1:22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
Okay let's look at this Scripture:
1 Co 13:12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
We see in a mirror. Face to face. We shall know fully. As we have been fully known.
Fully known by who? God? So we shall know ourselves as He already knows us? Well that makes sense to me. Where does this not make sense to you?
C.
We are not like Moses. He hid the glory because it faded.
2 Co 3:12Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end.
But their minds were hardened. Our minds can get in the way of seeing the glory of God.
14But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
The same veil remains except through Christ. You don't get it unless you're IN HIM. Did you catch that?
He goes on to connect the mind and the heart.
15Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts.
16But when one[SUP]c[/SUP] turns to the Lord, the veil is removed
TURNS TO THE LORD. Looking at Christ now. Spirit of the Lord.
17Now the Lord[SUP]d[/SUP] is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom
And we all looking at His glory. Seeing Him. Are being transformed into the same image.
18And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,[SUP]e[/SUP] are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.
Scripture even says you're deceiving yourself when you look into the law of liberty. And forget what you look like.
James 1:22But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like.
Okay let's look at this Scripture:
1 Co 13:12For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
We see in a mirror. Face to face. We shall know fully. As we have been fully known.
Fully known by who? God? So we shall know ourselves as He already knows us? Well that makes sense to me. Where does this not make sense to you?
C.
Moses hid his face because it shown so brightly ('reflecting' GOD's glory) it scared the Israelites.
You have a strange way of interpreting scripture. James 1:22 does not say that we are deceiving ourselves if we look into the law of liberty and forget what we look like. It says that we deceive ourselves if we hear and don't do the word.
Also, we do not see in a mirror face to face. It says that we see dimly as in a mirror. Mirrors back then weren't very good so the image was distorted. But then (at the resurrection) we will see face to face and there will be no distortion.
You have a strange way of interpreting scripture. James 1:22 does not say that we are deceiving ourselves if we look into the law of liberty and forget what we look like. It says that we deceive ourselves if we hear and don't do the word.
Also, we do not see in a mirror face to face. It says that we see dimly as in a mirror. Mirrors back then weren't very good so the image was distorted. But then (at the resurrection) we will see face to face and there will be no distortion.
I agree we hear and do, or we deceive ourselves, because we look in the law of liberty and see who are in Christ. If we don't do and hear, we forget who we are in Christ.
He seems to think knowing who we are in Christ doesn't matter, but I have shown umpteen Scriptures that say differently.
And then he says I'm gnostic or something, even though that's not accurate.
Gnostics believed flesh was evil and spirit wasn't. They thought they didn't need Christ because of their "knowledge".
I've said nothing of the sort, but I have said that we are growing up into knowledge of who we are in Christ - Eph 4.
Hence we shall know ourselves, as we have been fully known.
C.
He seems to think knowing who we are in Christ doesn't matter, but I have shown umpteen Scriptures that say differently.
And then he says I'm gnostic or something, even though that's not accurate.
Gnostics believed flesh was evil and spirit wasn't. They thought they didn't need Christ because of their "knowledge".
I've said nothing of the sort, but I have said that we are growing up into knowledge of who we are in Christ - Eph 4.
Hence we shall know ourselves, as we have been fully known.
C.
Jesus had asked the Father if they could be with him where he is and behold his glory, and that the glory that was given he is given to them.
These are beholding in a glass the very glory of the Lord (and are being changed into the same image) and that by the Spirit
2 Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Its like beholding one (in above) or the other (below) and below (is our own natural face) the image we should be overcoming and not that which we desire to behold
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
What "image" does the man behold?
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
These are beholding in a glass the very glory of the Lord (and are being changed into the same image) and that by the Spirit
2 Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Its like beholding one (in above) or the other (below) and below (is our own natural face) the image we should be overcoming and not that which we desire to behold
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
What "image" does the man behold?
James 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Pure gnosticism. Gnostics thought they were saved by knowing themselves. The verse you alluded to says that we will fully know Christ, not ourselves. But your comment reveals your focus.
For now we see as in a mirror unclearly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 1 Corinthians 13:12
I agree we hear and do, or we deceive ourselves, because we look in the law of liberty and see who are in Christ. If we don't do and hear, we forget who we are in Christ.
He seems to think knowing who we are in Christ doesn't matter, but I have shown umpteen Scriptures that say differently.
And then he says I'm gnostic or something, even though that's not accurate.
Gnostics believed flesh was evil and spirit wasn't. They thought they didn't need Christ because of their "knowledge".
I've said nothing of the sort, but I have said that we are growing up into knowledge of who we are in Christ - Eph 4.
Hence we shall know ourselves, as we have been fully known.
C.
He seems to think knowing who we are in Christ doesn't matter, but I have shown umpteen Scriptures that say differently.
And then he says I'm gnostic or something, even though that's not accurate.
Gnostics believed flesh was evil and spirit wasn't. They thought they didn't need Christ because of their "knowledge".
I've said nothing of the sort, but I have said that we are growing up into knowledge of who we are in Christ - Eph 4.
Hence we shall know ourselves, as we have been fully known.
C.
I dont get peoples words, if they just shut up and use the scriptures there would be less of all this wrangling over words so much.
But I think from what I can tell I agree a little more on this point yes,
It does allude to Christ. It also alludes to ourselves. We are one in Him.
My focus is on Him. One reason He died is so He could be one with me. And my life hid in Him. Did you know Jesus said it was to our advantage He went so Holy Spirit could come? Not just so we could go to heaven, but so that HE could come into us.
My focus is on Him. One reason He died is so He could be one with me. And my life hid in Him. Did you know Jesus said it was to our advantage He went so Holy Spirit could come? Not just so we could go to heaven, but so that HE could come into us.
Oneness is shown after this manner, I dont know which anyone else is speaking of
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus prayed that we would be one in the same exact way he and the Father are one
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.
Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:24 Even the glory given to behold mentioned also in 2 Cr 3:18 is as by the Spirit
Just as Jesus said," I and the Father are one" and he prayed we would be one as he and the Father are one Paul said, he who is joined to the Lord are the same
1 Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
As it pertains to the glory the Father gave the Son he says,
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am;
that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Which pertains to beholding him as through the Spirit, which is His inward image (showing us the Father)
2 Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Not beheld by the eyes of the flesh
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Jesus prayed that we would be one in the same exact way he and the Father are one
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.
Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;
and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
John 17:24 Even the glory given to behold mentioned also in 2 Cr 3:18 is as by the Spirit
Just as Jesus said," I and the Father are one" and he prayed we would be one as he and the Father are one Paul said, he who is joined to the Lord are the same
1 Cr 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
As it pertains to the glory the Father gave the Son he says,
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am;
that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Which pertains to beholding him as through the Spirit, which is His inward image (showing us the Father)
2 Cr 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Not beheld by the eyes of the flesh
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not,
neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
No. We are One with Him. You also if you are in Christ. We are His Body. We are His Temple. My life is hid in Him. I am not Christ, I am in Christ. It is not I who live, but Christ in me. So where am I? I'm in Him. I believe the crux of this statement is that we are united with Him. Hence Paul says I can do ALL things THROUGH CHRIST who strengthens me. A lot of people skip over the In, By, and Through's in Christ because they don't understand it. I've prayed for years to Holy Spirit to help me understand what in Christ meant. There is a book written on it that's about 400+ pages. Just on what "in Christ" means and how it is all Scripturally connected.
C.
C.