Repentance: A Boast in the Flesh

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jesus fulfilled the requirement for an ultimate sacrifice, to show what Gods heart really is,
and to empower His people.

From then on being a jew is not necessary to know God. The letter of the law is not essential
but the precepts are.

The whole question of why we failed was because we did not understand God. In Jesus the light
has been switched on. The difference is in us seeing who God actually is, not us seeing who we
are in Christ.

He did more than fulfill the requirement for the "ultimate sacrifice."
He fulfilled the law because the law was ABOUT Him. It all spoke of Him!
But my question to holly was, how is it different for us than it was for them?
Is the only difference that we don't have to sacrifice animals like they did?
In other words, how is it that they couldn't keep the law but we can?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wonder if we can even keep the law. At least the way they were required to keep it..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I wonder if we can even keep the law. At least the way they were required to keep it..

One of the apostles said...YES!
He said, in fact, it is only through Christ that we CAN keep the law!

 

[Grace777x70]

I wonder if we can even keep the law. At least the way they were required to keep it..

Of course not, even in Acts they said "why do we want to put a burden on the Gentiles when even we nor our forefathers could do by keeping the law.

We live by new laws in the New Covenant built upon better promises and spoken of better things by the blood of Jesus.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of love is all we need now as we are led through life by the Holy Spirit within us as we are now children of God.

We also have the law of faith ( the just shall live by faith ), the law of liberty in Christ and the law of Christ. These 5 "laws" are for the New Covenant believer that is in Christ. These are the laws that God has put in our new heart and spirit. The renewing of our mind puts these 5 "laws" in our minds as well.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One of the apostles said...YES!
He said, in fact, it is only through Christ that we CAN keep the law!

That would make us sinless would it not? Just saying

 

[LaurenTM]

I wonder if we can even keep the law. At least the way they were required to keep it..

no

where would we put all those animals for sacrifice?

 

[Chester]

Nonsense...that is a "construct" of your own mind. I have never heard anyone say to go out and live how you ant because you are under grace. I have listened to over a thousand different messages from believers in the grace of Christ from all different denominations. At least a hundred different teachers and I have never heard one say what you are saying. In fact they say the "complete opposite" of what you are making a false accusation about.

I have seen both sides of this predicament:

There may be at least three things that go into how someone interprets a "hyper-grace preacher"?
(1) The actual words that the preacher says
(2) The tone of voice and attitude of the preacher
(3) The character, hurts, pains, outlook of the listener

What I am trying to say is that two people may listen to the exact same sermon, but hear two different things.
Grace 777x70 may listen and not hear the minister say you can go out and sin because you are under grace, but another person may hear it hinted at, and because of his own background hear something different.

 

[Chester]

Repentance is one of the most beautiful words . . .

A mixture of two things: sorrow, regret, and pain because my sin has touched the heart of God
but also gratitude, love, and joy because of the forgiveness of God through Jesus Christ

 

[Grace777x70]

I have seen both sides of this predicament:

There may be at least three things that go into how someone interprets a "hyper-grace preacher"?
(1) The actual words that the preacher says
(2) The tone of voice and attitude of the preacher
(3) The character, hurts, pains, outlook of the listener

What I am trying to say is that two people may listen to the exact same sermon, but hear two different things.
Grace 777x70 may listen and not hear the minister say you can go out and sin because you are under grace, but another person may hear it hinted at, and because of his own background hear something different.

I agree that the way we "hear" will determine what we think is being said. When some one hears "All your sins are forgiven because of Jesus's death and resurrection and anyone who believes in Him receives the forgiveness of sins" ( which is the real gospel according to Peter and Paul in Acts 10, 13 ).

1) one person hears that all his sins are forgiven if he believes that through His name everyone who believes in Him - receives the forgiveness of sins forever. He walks away with a heart full of thanksgiving and praise to God for His great love, mercy and grace.

2) the other person hears the same message and says: " What?... does this mean I can go out and sin all I want now because my sins are forgiven when I believed in Christ?" ( the answer to this is in Romans 6:1-11 )

The truth is if no one say to us "What?..are you saying we can just go out and sin now because we are forgiven of all sin? - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ" - then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

Paul was slanderously reported ( the exact same thing happens to this day ) to be saying that it's ok to go out and sin all you want. If some one accuses me of saying we can sin all we want - I get very excited - as I know that means the gospel is being preached.

The fact that people can mis-understand what is really being said - does not mean we should water down the true gospel when we preach it. His grace will teach us how to live godly lives that glorify Him and speak of His love and life in us.

 

[Chester]

I agree that the way we "hear" will determine what we think is being said. When some one hears "All your sins are forgiven because of Jesus's death and resurrection and anyone who believes in Him receives the forgiveness of sins" ( which is the real gospel according to Peter and Paul in Acts 10, 13 ).

1) one person hears that all his sins are forgiven if he believes that through His name everyone who believes in Him - receives the forgiveness of sins forever. He walks away with a heart full of thanksgiving and praise to God for His great love, mercy and grace.

2) the other person hears the same message and says: " What?... does this mean I can go out and sin all I want now because my sins are forgiven when I believed in Christ?" ( the answer to this is in Romans 6:1-11 )

The truth is if no one say to us "What?..are you saying we can just go out and sin now because we are forgiven of all sin? - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ" - then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

Paul was slanderously reported ( the exact same thing happens to this day ) to be saying that it's ok to go out and sin all you want. If some one accuses me of saying we can sin all we want - I get very excited - as I know that means the gospel is being preached.

The fact that people can mis-understand what is really being said - does not mean we should water down the true gospel when we preach it. His grace will teach us how to live godly lives that glorify Him and speak of His love and life in us.

I think we need to be very careful of making it a goal to have people misunderstand our preaching. I know there will always be some who misread (mishear?) what is preached, but that should not be our goal.

I think that a gospel message that is misunderstood is not to be commended, but should strive to be corrected. Or, it should strive to be said in such a way that it is clear to all (or at least most!

 

[Angela53510]

I had people witnessing to me for years, about the love and forgiveness of God. But I just didn't believe, and I wasn't saved.

My future husband sat me down one day, and we talked about all the people in the Bible who repented of their sins. David, who was struck down in grief when Nathan pointed out his sins. Peter, when he denied Christ and wept bitterly, although Jesus, as usual, forgave him. Mary Magdelene, a prostitute who was so grateful that Jesus forgave her sins, that she took nard and wiped it on his feet.

That was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. God spoke to me, told me who he was, and saved me. I stopped drinking and many other things forever. It took the word of God, coupled with God drawing me near for God to truly save me. And turning from sin was part of that - God inspired, irresistible, but a confession and acknowledgment of sin!

Fast forward 31 years. I had been praying and witnessing that long to my father. And he was dying. My husband came for the daily visit, and I started talking about Jesus. My husband told my husband he needed to repent from his sins, by confessing them to God. That was the part of the missing puzzle he needed. My father came to know Jesus as Lord and Saviour, repented of his sins died a man who loved God, 5 months later. Before that time, God changed his heart in so many ways, and we totally reconciled.

Without repentance, no one is saved. Anyone pretending that they didn't turn away from their sins, is either lying, or has not read the truth about what we are saved from - from sin. And what we are saved to - to God!

As for "changing your mind" perhaps we need to change that to "changing MY mind." (Although there is no pronoun in the Greek!) So if repentance is just about ME, changing MY mind, that sounds a lot like works-righteousness, instead of the Holy Spirit prompting us to see our sins, and repent and turn away from them.

I have met too many people who think salvation is all about them. They "changed their minds." Then later, they changed it again, when the Christian walk got a little rough. Better to repent and turn away from your sins, because God leads you, than to take salvation into your own hands, by supposedly "changing MY mind" an act of self will if there ever was one! And an act that will never lead to salvation.

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—" Eph. 2:1-5

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"And when he saw their faith, he said, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.” Luke 5:20

"And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” Matt 9:2

Jesus whole ministry was to call people to repentance for their sins, and he was born and died for the purpose of saving us from our sins.

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures." 1 Cor. 15:3

If anyone tells that repentance means something different than turning from your sins and towards God, flee them! That is another gospel!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

That would make us sinless would it not? Just saying

Paul said only through faith do we truly fulfill the law. It's in Romans, I think.
If you are truly fulfilling the law, in spirit and truth, what sin are you committing?
Paul said there is a case where it isn't you sinning, but sin IN you is doing it. If you agree it's wrong and you don't want to do it but you do it anyway, you agree that the law is good and it is sin IN you, and the flesh is in enmity against the Spirit and always will be.

 

[UnderGrace]

I do see what you are saying, that there is a realization about one's sinfulness when you are born again. For sure, before being born again I do not think I really understood how sinful I really was in my thoughts and my deeds.

I think for me though, the repentance (which I agree is partly sorrow, believing and changing one's mind/heart) was more about realizing I was never going to be good enough to meet God's holy standard.

So I accepted and believed that He died on the cross for me bearing all my sins. Within all that there was a turning from sin because sin was no longer the desire of my heart, He was giving my heart new desires ...HIM.

My sin was not so much lifestyle but trying to be good through self-effort, when I accepted that I could never meet that perfect standard in my flesh, I did turn away from that sin of self effort and belief in my own righteousness. It was then through His Holy Spirit in me, that really gave me the ability to do the good works He desired of me.

I had people witnessing to me for years, about the love and forgiveness of God. But I just didn't believe, and I wasn't saved.

My future husband sat me down one day, and we talked about all the people in the Bible who repented of their sins. David, who was struck down in grief when Nathan pointed out his sins. Peter, when he denied Christ and wept bitterly, although Jesus, as usual, forgave him. Mary Magdelene, a prostitute who was so grateful that Jesus forgave her sins, that she took nard and wiped it on his feet.

That was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. God spoke to me, told me who he was, and saved me. I stopped drinking and many other things forever. It took the word of God, coupled with God drawing me near for God to truly save me. And turning from sin was part of that - God inspired, irresistible, but a confession and acknowledgment of sin!

Fast forward 31 years. I had been praying and witnessing that long to my father. And he was dying. My husband came for the daily visit, and I started talking about Jesus. My husband told my husband he needed to repent from his sins, by confessing them to God. That was the part of the missing puzzle he needed. My father came to know Jesus as Lord and Saviour, repented of his sins died a man who loved God, 5 months later. Before that time, God changed his heart in so many ways, and we totally reconciled.

Without repentance, no one is saved. Anyone pretending that they didn't turn away from their sins, is either lying, or has not read the truth about what we are saved from - from sin. And what we are saved to - to God!

As for "changing your mind" perhaps we need to change that to "changing MY mind." (Although there is no pronoun in the Greek!) So if repentance is just about ME, changing MY mind, that sounds a lot like works-righteousness, instead of the Holy Spirit prompting us to see our sins, and repent and turn away from them.

I have met too many people who think salvation is all about them. They "changed their minds." Then later, they changed it again, when the Christian walk got a little rough. Better to repent and turn away from your sins, because God leads you, than to take salvation into your own hands, by supposedly "changing MY mind" an act of self will if there ever was one! And an act that will never lead to salvation.

"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2

"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—" Eph. 2:1-5

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed." 1 Peter 2:24

"And when he saw their faith, he said, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.” Luke 5:20

"And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” Matt 9:2

Jesus whole ministry was to call people to repentance for their sins, and he was born and died for the purpose of saving us from our sins.

"She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.” Matt 1:21

"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures." 1 Cor. 15:3

If anyone tells that repentance means something different than turning from your sins and towards God, flee them! That is another gospel!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I do see what you are saying, that there is a realization about one's sinfulness when you are born again. For sure, before being born again I do not think I really understood how sinful I really was in my thoughts and my deeds.

I think for me though, the repentance (which I agree is partly sorrow, believing and changing one's mind/heart) was more about realizing I was never going to be good enough to meet God's holy standard.

So I accepted and believed that He died on the cross for me bearing all my sins. Within all that there was a turning from sin because sin was no longer the desire of my heart, He was giving my heart new desires ...HIM.

My sin was not so much lifestyle but trying to be good through self-effort, when I accepted that I could never meet that perfect standard in my flesh, I did turn away from that sin of self effort and belief in my own righteousness. It was then through His Holy Spirit in me, that really gave me the ability to do the good works He desired of me.

This was my experience too.
Repentance from dead works.
Turning from dead works to God.
I clung to that self effort because I was afraid to go to my death. And if any part of me was salvageable, I wouldn't have to put it on the cross. I so badly wanted the child of my own effort to receive the blessing but that's not ever how it's going to work. Only the child of Gods promise and will and working receives the blessing. Ishmael has to be sent away.

 

[UnderGrace]

In writing my response it did make me wonder, what about the person who is really feeling the weight of their sin, it would be reasonable that person because they are so burdened with guilt when they come to Jesus, they would see themselves turning away from sin, although within that experience the person would also need to believe that Jesus died for their sins.

There may be different points of entry to that final belief, ultimately though I do stand firm that it is believing on the work of the cross as a payment for one's sin knowing that one can never meet God's perfect standard is how one is born again.

John 3:18 He that believe on him is not condemed...

This was my experience too.
Repentance from dead works.
Turning from dead works to God.
I clung to that self effort because I was afraid to go to my death. And if any part of me was salvageable, I wouldn't have to put it on the cross. I so badly wanted the child of my own effort to receive the blessing but that's not ever how it's going to work. Only the child of God promise and will and working receives the blessing. Ishmael has to be sent away.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

In writing my response it did make me wonder, what about the person who is really feeling the weight of their sin, it would be reasonable that person because they are so burdened with guilt when they come to Jesus, they would see themselves turning away from sin, although within that experience the person would also need to believe that Jesus died for their sins.

There may be different points of entry to that final belief, ultimately though I do stand firm that it is believing on the work of the cross as a payment for one's sin knowing that one can never meet God's perfect standard is how one is born again.

John 3:18 He that believe on him is not condemed...

I had the Holy Spirit though. So, I was born again already. Had to be. That IS the new birth. So...I don't know, I've thought I just got a bit sideways, like a foolish Galatian. But He never left me. He came to my senses very often. We shared a meal together often. Though I WAS trusting Him for forgiveness of my sins - probably because that was something I DEFINITELY knew I couldn't do. I just didn't understand that sanctification was by faith in Him also.

 

[PeterJens]

This was my experience too.

It sounds like we love the Lord and walk in very similar ways.
The problem I see is simpler that people realise. In our hearts we are very defended
and we need to learn to lay these defences down at the foot of the cross.

So many people have real deep needs, things that eat away at them, yet the Lord
wants to give healing and to have brothers and sisters lift each other up.

Morality is about a reference point which helps when things get very emotional and
we often loose perspective. What I found odd is in amongst all this real light and
perspective was "legalism", "condemnation" is evil, and then the pursuit to find those
who held to these things, ie me.

But what these testimonies should highlight is the more we see Jesus and His love,
His love in our hearts, overflowing, and legalism and condemnation go away.

Success wins, walking in purity and righteousness with Christ is victory.
But it comes from a deep love of life, others and Christ. Waiting to grow into this
place matters, because it cannot be manufactured.

To those who have not found this love overflowing, I would point to the sermon on
the mount and ask the Lord to show you which thing you need to put into effect.
We never arrive, we walk, we never have it all, we dwell with the King.

Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
Psalm 84:10

Some seem to have never discovered this principle and their hearts have not seen what life
actually is.

 

[disciplemike]

"if" you are a man ( and you are ) then you are a male.

The "if" is there to show that "we do in fact" walk in the light if you are a believer....it's a position in Christ - we are children of light. "if" you are not a believer then you do not have the blood of Jesus cleansing you.

Here is a thread that speaks all about his for you. It'll bless you when you see the truth of the magnificence of Christ's work for us.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128864-walk-light.html

IF, v.t. It is used as the sign of a condition, or it introduces a conditional sentence (Webster)

 

[ladylynn]

I had the Holy Spirit though. So, I was born again already. Had to be. That IS the new birth. So...I don't know, I've thought I just got a bit sideways, like a foolish Galatian. But He never left me. He came to my senses very often. We shared a meal together often. Though I WAS trusting Him for forgiveness of my sins - probably because that was something I DEFINITELY knew I couldn't do. I just didn't understand that sanctification was by faith in Him also.

Exactly! Like you, i was saved already but never understood that the sanctification issue was also a work of His that I had to accept by faith and begin to walk in the process (by faith) not by works. Not only does He save us by His grace., He also teaches us by His grace.

It's then we are actually doing the works by and through the Spirit and not by our own strength. Jesus gets the credit for it all., we are His workmanship created IN Christ Jesus UNTO good works.

 

[PeterJens]

How can christians go apostate?

This is something that seriously bothers me.
The Lord sent a prophet who was told not to eat until they had returned.

Another prophet deceived them saying the Lord has said it is ok to eat.

The prophet after eating was then told He had disobeyed the Lord and would be
judged.


The Lord gives us great privilege, but we have the responsibility to carry it out.
It is our choice.

"Many are called few are chosen." "The one who is victorious..."

Abraham walked with God but only until he was prepared to sacrifice Jacob
did God say

"Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son."
Gen 22:12

Always we think we have arrived, but loyalty is shown in consistent response.

Did Israel love the Lord? They made it all the way to Palestine, yet at the last hurdle turned back.
They were rejected because at this point of victory, still they were defeated.

Things grow from this relationship. But for the relationship to be real, it needs to have foundations,
not like sand that just runs away when difficulties come. The whole of Job is a discussion in this
very issue. So we are all just followers, walking. May Gods grace keep us on the path, and stay
true to our calling in Christ Jesus, Amen.

This is why repentance matters, it is the lifeblood of staying true to God and walking with Him.