How To Tell If...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#41
Depends on the attitude of the audience how the Spirit comes.
God's grace is welcomed with open arms and joyful hearts by sinners who understand their need for God's saving grace. Negative attitudes arise when law trumps grace in the eyes of those delivering messages.
 
Jul 26, 2016
483
18
0
#42
Love should not be the overarching motivation. Love should be the ONLY motivation.
You may think ignoring is the greater sin, but what is shaking the dust from your feet if it isn't leaving and ignoring?
Sometimes that's a popular passage that is popularly taken out of context and abused, sometimes by people who want to bolster there own modern day opinions or superiority. I rarely see this entire passage quoted and taught in the first century time frame of its context. Traveling from city to city by foot on dirt roads can hardly be compared to today's internet evangelism, but some people try. Wiping the dust of a city off of ones feet after much weary travel and repeated rejection, is often used as an excuse for today's modern-day fruit inspectors to give another individual the proverbial 'spiritual finger' of ignorance or indifference.

I look for fruit first.
If I can't see any, I go from that point in any dealings with the man.
I don't think a man taught by the Holy Spirit will convey it badly. Or if he does, it won't be his consistency of behavior.
And a well-mannered man taught by men will give himself away soon. When discussing movies or travels he might not give it away, but in politics or religion, he always will.
You say you look for fruit first? And if YOU can't see any...?
Forgive me if I'm missing something, I don't intend to debate, as I believe you are well-intended, but where are we called to first be inspectors and then determiners of another persons 'fruit'? Didn't Jesus say, Let he who is WITHOUT sin first cast a stone (judgment and condemnation) And aren't we called to see and remove the log in our OWN eye, so then we can HELP another remove a splinter from theirs?
I have heard a lot of words of 'love' and building up of another this week, in religion and particularly in politics, even from 2 presidents yesterday, gently and kindly and passionately, and it's been enough to turn ones stomach.

Like they say, some peoples faces are a welcome mat, others a do not disturb sign. Don't be so quick to write off the person whose fruit may still be young and hard. God isn't through with any of us yet.
Well said, and thank the Lord for His patience grace and mercy towards us. Jesus said IT is finished, salvation, it is done, the penalty HE PAID in full, praise the Lord, but WE are, or I should say, I am, still a work in progress, many of us are at different stages of growth at any given time.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#43

Personally, I believe the anonymity of an online chat board allows people to say (post) words they never would say (post) if they were discussing issues face to face.

Also, at times I do not believe the written words are understood in light of the meaning the person who posts them actually meant. We are missing the visual cue of facial expression, body language, etc., and the auditory cue of whether words are spoken in anger, shock, sarcasm, love, etc. What might be understood in a couple of spoken words could take several posts (or pages of posts) to get the point across or glean the meaning.


Here are some verses we could all keep in mind before we hit the submit button:


Psalm 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.


Ephesians 4:29-32 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


Philippians 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.



I think we all have something to share with others here and we could also learn from others here. God tells us in 1 Cor 12 that He has placed every member in the body as it has pleased Him and no one can say that a member of the body is unnecessary. There should be no schism in the body and we should all have the same care one for another. We are all members in particular. Such an awesome picture is drawn from theses verses if we'd ever get it through our skulls.
We get it right sometimes. And we leave here crying at the loveliness of our Lord in each other and are so encouraged. :)We each add an ingredient He has given us and we sweeten the pot instead of tearing down and we don't make anyone feel unsafe to say what they believe or think and we don't attack or call them names and we all come together somehow...He tweaks my mind slightly and your mind slightly and then tweaks some more through our conversation in the Spirit until...agreement or a realization that what we were so intent on isn't so necessary as we thought. It's lovely when it happens.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#44
God's grace is welcomed with open arms and joyful hearts by sinners who understand their need for God's saving grace. Negative attitudes arise when law trumps grace in the eyes of those delivering messages.
Someone named...netchaplain? posted something in an op by a man named Spurgeon. It totally floored me because the man so closely described my own experience over the last ten years. One stage of that experience was trying to be holy. And when I was in that stage, I wasn't ready to accept as much grace as I am now. I still had the Holy Spirit. He didn't leave me because I strove to be holy. He communed with me all the time. I have come to see that I was fighting against dying. If something is salvageable, then I don't have to totally get rid of it. I can fix it and keep it.

So I don't think to turn over tables at someone who is now in that same place I was. Our Lord is faithful, even frightfully so.

For me to not speak the truth to them in love and gentleness, understanding where they are because I was there too, is the very thing I was talking about in my op. In fact, I have the greater responsibility if I have been given more. To whoever more is given, more is expected.

So if they don't walk in love, and I don't walk in love, I will receive the greater condemnation. It won't matter if I am or was right.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#45
Sometimes that's a popular passage that is popularly taken out of context and abused, sometimes by people who want to bolster there own modern day opinions or superiority. I rarely see this entire passage quoted and taught in the first century time frame of its context. Traveling from city to city by foot on dirt roads can hardly be compared to today's internet evangelism, but some people try. Wiping the dust of a city off of ones feet after much weary travel and repeated rejection, is often used as an excuse for today's modern-day fruit inspectors to give another individual the proverbial 'spiritual finger' of ignorance or indifference.

You say you look for fruit first? And if YOU can't see any...?
Forgive me if I'm missing something, I don't intend to debate, as I believe you are well-intended, but where are we called to first be inspectors and then determiners of another persons 'fruit'? Didn't Jesus say, Let he who is WITHOUT sin first cast a stone (judgment and condemnation) And aren't we called to see and remove the log in our OWN eye, so then we can HELP another remove a splinter from theirs?
I have heard a lot of words of 'love' and building up of another this week, in religion and particularly in politics, even from 2 presidents yesterday, gently and kindly and passionately, and it's been enough to turn ones stomach.

Well said, and thank the Lord for His patience grace and mercy towards us. Jesus said IT is finished, salvation, it is done, the penalty HE PAID in full, praise the Lord, but WE are, or I should say, I am, still a work in progress, many of us are at different stages of growth at any given time.
It's not my opinion. You will know them by their fruits is Gods' word. And if I see no fruit, I don't judge them. I would have no fruit at all if it weren't for Gods' marvelous grace to me. I would still be dead if not for Gods' grace. There is a difference between looking for fruit or its lack in order to condemn or judge someone worthy of hell and to look for fruit to know where a person is. I don't want to cast stones at them. I want to help and encourage them to faith to begin or to more faith if they have begun already.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#46
==========================================

pottersclay,

you are either on some kind of mood altering drugs or just plain dumb and totally not in touch with
God's Reality...

these brothers and sisters are sharing their hearts, but I ask of you, do you know what a heart is?
Here we go:D
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#47
It's not my opinion. You will know them by their fruits is Gods' word. And if I see no fruit, I don't judge them. I would have no fruit at all if it weren't for Gods' marvelous grace to me. I would still be dead if not for Gods' grace. There is a difference between looking for fruit or its lack in order to condemn or judge someone worthy of hell and to look for fruit to know where a person is. I don't want to cast stones at them. I want to help and encourage them to faith to begin or to more faith if they have begun already.
Specifically who are we to know by their fruits? And specifically what are "fruits" that you can see as you look upon a person? One poster here seems to think it has a lot to do with the clothes a person wears. And others seem to think it means a person's speech is pretty. Yet others think it is how pious they are in church. Some think it is calling out others as sinners.

Me. I'm not sure it is any of that.
 
Last edited:
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#49
Specifically who are we to know by their fruits? And specifically what are "fruits" that you can see as you look upon a person? One poster here seems to think it has a lot to do with the clothes a person wears. And others seem to think it means their speech is pretty. Yet others think it is how pious they are in church.

Me. I'm not sure it is any of that.
That's a superb question!
What are the fruits of the Spirit? It seems important to know this if we're told we will know them by their fruits!
Because we seem to have gone astray and have changed Gods word to: you will know them by their systematic doctrine.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
#50
That's a superb question!
What are the fruits of the Spirit? It seems important to know this if we're told we will know them by their fruits!
Because we seem to have gone astray and have changed Gods word to: you will know them by their systematic doctrine.
No, I didn't ask what are the fruit of the spirit. That is for us to judge as developing within ourselves. I asked what fruits we were to identify other people possessing... and who those people are.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#51
How to tell if someone has been taught by men or taught by the Holy Spirit:

If God has given to a man, he will freely share what he has been given. He will do so in a gentle manner, not bending or breaking a single reed.

If other men have taught a man, you will hear things like this in the discussion:
That is stupid!
You are sooooo ignorant!
That's dumber than dirt!
You know nothing about holiness!
You are a heretic!
You are a wolf!
You are a heretic hunter!
What you're saying is utter nonsense!
You are a legalist for adding obedience to salvation!
Obviously you know nothing about.....

Knowledge puffs a man up into great arrogance. But love, through Christ, edifies.
Perfect doctrine does not cover a multitude of sins. Love covers a multitude of sins.

We give ourselves away. You can't fool a man walking in love. He either smells the fragrance of His Lords' robes around you or he doesn't. But you can fool other men who are also not walking in love very easily.
'Thought you missed a few..... there, all fixed.:)
 
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
#52
Someone named...netchaplain? posted something in an op by a man named Spurgeon. It totally floored me because the man so closely described my own experience over the last ten years. One stage of that experience was trying to be holy. And when I was in that stage, I wasn't ready to accept as much grace as I am now. I still had the Holy Spirit. He didn't leave me because I strove to be holy. He communed with me all the time. I have come to see that I was fighting against dying. If something is salvageable, then I don't have to totally get rid of it. I can fix it and keep it.

So I don't think to turn over tables at someone who is now in that same place I was. Our Lord is faithful, even frightfully so.

For me to not speak the truth to them in love and gentleness, understanding where they are because I was there too, is the very thing I was talking about in my op. In fact, I have the greater responsibility if I have been given more. To whoever more is given, more is expected.

So if they don't walk in love, and I don't walk in love, I will receive the greater condemnation. It won't matter if I am or was right.
I completely respect what you're sharing and rejoice for you and give thanks to God for having you where you are at this time. I truly pray your faith and relationship with God keeps getting better and better.

I too have grown and give sincere thanks to God for my personal growth that is founded in His love and saving grace. However, I am different than you at this time and maybe I always will be. I am a warrior for the Gospel, it's that simple. I don't take kindly to people who snuff out God's grace, and I am empowered by the Holy Spirit to counter their heresies while protecting the week in faith.

With respect to all but apologies to no one, I proclaim the saving grace of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and Him alone.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#53
It's okay. He didn't know you were jesting.

So which is it? Mind altering drugs or just plain dumb...? :p
I know that you are jesting as it's called. And you knew I was up to my Tom foolery but should we take heed to his response as it fits the o.p. description? Be honest no respecter of persons. What does it tell you?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#54
There was a reason for my madness. What says you?
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#55
No, I didn't ask what are the fruit of the spirit. That is for us to judge as developing within ourselves. I asked what fruits we were to identify other people possessing... and who those people are.
Well let's start here.
Jesus said that just as we know what kind of tree we are looking at is by the fruit it produces, so we can know people by their actions.
And Paul said he wanted to visit some believers and see spiritual fruit growing.
If we see a person showing fruits of the Spirit, we see patience, kindness, love, etc.

We can go even further and find Gods' definition of what love is.
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#56
I know that you are jesting as it's called. And you knew I was up to my Tom foolery but should we take heed to his response as it fits the o.p. description? Be honest no respecter of persons. What does it tell you?
It tells me that he thought people were sharing their hearts and that he thought you were being just awful and trampling on that. He didn't know you were joking...
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#57
It tells me that he thought people were sharing their hearts and that he thought you were being just awful and trampling on that. He didn't know you were joking...
Ok we'll go with that......sorry oldethenew guess I am dumb for joking around like I do did not mean to Russel your feathers no drugs here my good man just dumb humor........good nite
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
#58
Ok we'll go with that......sorry oldethenew guess I am dumb for joking around like I do did not mean to Russel your feathers no drugs here my good man just dumb humor........good nite
Good night dummy! :D
Come back tomorrow. We need some comic relief from time to time.
 
Jul 26, 2016
483
18
0
#59
It's okay. He didn't know you were jesting.

So which is it? Mind altering drugs or just plain dumb...? :p
Are mushrooms fruit? ;)

That's a superb question!
What are the fruits of the Spirit? It seems important to know this if we're told we will know them by their fruits!
Because we seem to have gone astray and have changed Gods word to: you will know them by their systematic doctrine.
The context of shaking the dust off the feet is in relation to doctrine. If the household or town in Matt.10 wouldn't hear the disciples words (teaching, doctrine) the truth regarding the Lord Jesus Christ, they were to shake the dust off, which was kind of an insult in that culture, and head for another city.

There are many passages regarding 'fruit', with different contexts. The passage in Matthew 7 is referring to false prophets. Again, doctrine.
(lifestyle too, of course, should line up with ones teaching, but is not as readily discernable, as the false prophet is a wolf disguised in sheep's clothing. They can SEEM nice enough, but they distort or even deny the truth of the gospel.)
A good tree (true prophet) can't bring forth evil fruit (false teaching) and a corrupt tree (false prophet) can't bring forth good fruit (true doctrine) We as believers are told that we shall know them (true or false prophets) by their fruits (doctrine and faith).
"By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not : for with such sacrifices God is well pleased." Heb. 13:15-16
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#60
It tells me that he thought people were sharing their hearts and that he thought you were being just awful and trampling on that. He didn't know you were joking...
Yeah they knew he was joking.

Everyone knows Pottersclay would rather be God's fool than the world's wise man.

I think the point is that for the most part your OP can be true, but sometimes outward appearances can be deceptive.

We love both potter and old&new, so their joking around does not have us deciding they are only taught by men and not God.

However, it also reveals that the human faults can cause people to speak in a manner not loving and glorifying to God. However they may still be beloved children of God ....just need more practice training their tongue.
 
Last edited by a moderator: