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RobbyEarl
Guest
So a person comes to church and walks the aisle after the call is given and submits their heart to God, but then leaves and goes back to what they were doing. They were not saved? They just faked it.
Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!
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RobbyEarl
Guest
1 Timothy 19 did they or did they not
[FONT="]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.[/FONT]
[FONT="]having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck, [/FONT][FONT="][/FONT][FONT="]20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme.[/FONT]
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RobbyEarl
Guest
:haha: as it is written
:read:
Genesis: 5. 1. This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
~;> so which one is the adam who
knew and walked with God?
:read:
Genesis: 5. 1. This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2. Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
~;> so which one is the adam who
knew and walked with God?
T
TonyJay
Guest
Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!
Yet I've also heard others in the NOSAS camp liken our security in Christ to someone walking on a tight rope in which suddenly we can slip off and perish and imply that the majority of born again Christians will end up losing their salvation. I've even heard one NOSAS proponent claim that continuing in the faith, abiding in Christ is an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do and even implied that around 90% of born again Christians will end up losing their salvation. The latter types seem to believe they are "holier than thou" and surely will not slip off that tight rope, but most others will.
There are brothers and sisters in Christ in both camps and demeaning and degrading each other is a two way street. (Those in the OSAS camp often get accused of having a license to sin). I also believe that not everyone in both camps are necessarily saved in the first place. Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites and others who teach salvation by works are strong proponents of NOSAS. There may also be those who attend Christian churches which teach the gospel correctly but have never genuinely come to repent and believe the gospel. Such people may have even walked the aisle at church and said the sinner's prayer and believe that simply because they recited a prayer (apart from repentance and faith) that they are now saved and think, I'm OSAS so I will just go out now and live like the devil because it does not matter.
Not everyone in the OSAS camp is a Calvinist. I believe in free will, yet I also believe that Christians are new creations in Christ and that God preserves His saints forever.
Love ya back Bro. Notice that I said "some" people prefer to remain on that roller coaster ride. I was not implying that everyone who is in the NOSAS camp is, but there are some who certainly seem to be. I've heard certain people in the NOSAS camp liken our security in Christ to someone walking down a road with two high walls on both sides of the road and say that the believer is secure, but is still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side and imply that only a small percentage of genuine born again Christians would end up losing their salvation.Love ya Bro...........but, this is what I spoke of in my first comment here. People who disagree with the ideology of OSAS are NOT living in fear, nor denying the wonderful gift of the grace of God. Yet, OSAS supporters must portray us to be such, and demean/degrade us for disagreeing with them. Not a lot of Christian love, fellowship and understanding/acceptance there is there. Seriously.
If we willingly accept those who support OSAS as Brothers and Sisters in Christ, why do you guys insist in demeaning and degrading us? I do not understand that. It's like you guys are the Saturday Sabbath Keepers hiding behind the veil of OSAS.
So, please explain to me why those who support the ideology of OSAS, deny the ideology of Free Will? Are you guys really Calvinist's in sheeps clothing? Hmm
(Inquiring minds wanna know)
Yet I've also heard others in the NOSAS camp liken our security in Christ to someone walking on a tight rope in which suddenly we can slip off and perish and imply that the majority of born again Christians will end up losing their salvation. I've even heard one NOSAS proponent claim that continuing in the faith, abiding in Christ is an extremely difficult burden that most Christians will surely fail to do and even implied that around 90% of born again Christians will end up losing their salvation. The latter types seem to believe they are "holier than thou" and surely will not slip off that tight rope, but most others will.
There are brothers and sisters in Christ in both camps and demeaning and degrading each other is a two way street. (Those in the OSAS camp often get accused of having a license to sin). I also believe that not everyone in both camps are necessarily saved in the first place. Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites and others who teach salvation by works are strong proponents of NOSAS. There may also be those who attend Christian churches which teach the gospel correctly but have never genuinely come to repent and believe the gospel. Such people may have even walked the aisle at church and said the sinner's prayer and believe that simply because they recited a prayer (apart from repentance and faith) that they are now saved and think, I'm OSAS so I will just go out now and live like the devil because it does not matter.
Not everyone in the OSAS camp is a Calvinist. I believe in free will, yet I also believe that Christians are new creations in Christ and that God preserves His saints forever.
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Scriptures revealing the error of the teaching of once saved, always saved........
Revelation 2:1 .) Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
4) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 .) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
James 5:19)Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 .) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Timothy 4: 1 .) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Mark 13:13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Galatians 1:1) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 .) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 .) Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Chpt 2:11) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 .) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 .) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 .) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 .) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 .) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 .) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 .) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Chpt 3:1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Chpt 4:19) My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 .) I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Chpt 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
1 Corinthians 9:27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
James 2:14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 .) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 .) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 .) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 .) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 .) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 .) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 .) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 .) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 .) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 .) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 .) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 .) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Matthew 7:21)Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 10:12)Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Matthew 24:12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Ezekiel 18:24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
John 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Corinthians 3:11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 .) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 .) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 .) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 .) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 .) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 .) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Matthew 13:3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 .) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 .) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 .) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 .) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 .) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Luke 8:13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 .) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Phillipians 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 .) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Galatians 6:8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 .) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 .) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 3:12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 .) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 .) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Revelation 3:2-5
Colossians 1:22-29
Titus 1:16
Matthew 24:1-51
Revelation 2:1 .) Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
4) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 .) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
James 5:19)Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 .) Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 Timothy 4: 1 .) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Mark 13:13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Galatians 1:1) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
2 .) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3 .) Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Chpt 2:11) But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 .) For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 .) And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 .) But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 .) We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 .) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
17 .) But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 .) For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
Chpt 3:1) O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Chpt 4:19) My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,
20 .) I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.
Chpt 5:1) Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
7) Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
1 Corinthians 9:27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
James 2:14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 .) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 .) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 .) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 .) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 .) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 .) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 .) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 .) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 .) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 .) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 .) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 .) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Matthew 7:21)Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
1 Corinthians 10:12)Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
Matthew 24:12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Ezekiel 18:24) But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
John 3:36) He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 Corinthians 3:11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 .) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 .) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 .) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 .) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 .) Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 .) If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Matthew 13:3) And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 .) And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 .) Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 .) And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 .) And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 .) But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Luke 8:13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 .) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
Phillipians 2:12) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 .) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Galatians 6:8) For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 .) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
10 .) As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 3:12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 .) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 .) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Revelation 3:2-5
Colossians 1:22-29
Titus 1:16
Matthew 24:1-51
Thanks for the clarification.............let me say, quoting you:
Not everyone in the OSAS camp is a Calvinist. I believe in free will, yet I also believe that Christians are new creations in Christ and that God preserves His saints forever.
One can not believe in "free will," if one believes that once saved, man does not have the "free will" to decide to turn from Christ, and, again embrace the sin-filled life they lived before coming to Christ. To believe that once one comes to Christ, that Christ "removes" their "free will" from them, thus "preserving them forever," is to believe in a watered down version of the teachings of Calvin. Like Christ says: "OK, NOW I GOTCHA, YOU AIN'T GOT NO CHOICE NOW BUT TO BE MINE FOREVER." Hmm.........I don't think so.......
And, then there is the issue of "good works" which those that believe in OSAS discount as being necessary, for they do not like to consider that "being obedient" to the Commandments/Will of God has anything to do with His "preserving" of us.
Not everyone in the OSAS camp is a Calvinist. I believe in free will, yet I also believe that Christians are new creations in Christ and that God preserves His saints forever.
One can not believe in "free will," if one believes that once saved, man does not have the "free will" to decide to turn from Christ, and, again embrace the sin-filled life they lived before coming to Christ. To believe that once one comes to Christ, that Christ "removes" their "free will" from them, thus "preserving them forever," is to believe in a watered down version of the teachings of Calvin. Like Christ says: "OK, NOW I GOTCHA, YOU AIN'T GOT NO CHOICE NOW BUT TO BE MINE FOREVER." Hmm.........I don't think so.......
And, then there is the issue of "good works" which those that believe in OSAS discount as being necessary, for they do not like to consider that "being obedient" to the Commandments/Will of God has anything to do with His "preserving" of us.
Commentaries are just that and not all commentators agree with your view.
"Sad proof" is debatable and you sound like the "tight rope walking 90% of all Christians will lose their salvation" proponent.
As I said before: Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.
*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature," having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."
Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.
Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution.
Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the "corruption that is in the world through lust" (2 Peter 1:4).
*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these false teachers because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment."
So who are "they" in verse 20? This is variously interpreted as either the false teachers or their victims, but the proximity to the false teachers in (2 Peter 2:19) makes them the most natural antecedent of "they". Furthermore, the false teachers are the main subject of the whole chapter. Peter did not mention that those who escaped the"pollutions of the world" through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, were "Christians," "born of God" or "saved."
In conclusion: It's one thing to escape corruption "phthora" (Strongs #5356) on the inside in 2 Peter 1:4 and another thing to escape pollutions/defilements "miasma" (Strongs #3393) on the outside in 2 Peter 2:20. False teachers are the main subject in chapter 2. Did Peter refer to those in 2 Peter 2:20 as being "Christians," "born again" or "saved?" - NO. Did 2 Peter 2:20 mention being "partakers of the divine nature?" - NO. Were the words "lost salvation" mentioned? - NO. Is the word corruption "phthora" (Strongs #5356) in 2 Peter 1:4 a different Greek word than pollutions/defilements "miasma" (Strongs #3393) in 2 Peter 2:20? - YES.
You can believe what you want, but as for me, I got off that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-secruity when I left the Roman Catholic church several years ago after I received Christ through faith. Praise God!
Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!
That sounds harsh and judgmental.
Can someone by an "act of their will" un-born themselves from being a human being? Can they one day say "I don't want to be a human anymore so I as an act of my will - I am un-born myself" ( we would think there is something wrong with this person's mind )
Can some one by "an act of their will" stop being a son/daughter to someone? Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents whether they like it or not.
We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lies and abides forever. We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ.
( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )
This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.
Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.
We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done".
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.
Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13
There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Can some one by "an act of their will" stop being a son/daughter to someone? Of course not - they will always be the child of their parents whether they like it or not.
We can no more by "an act of our will" un-born ourselves from God which Peter says we are born again of incorruptible seed which lies and abides forever. We cannot "un-child" ourselves from being God's child because of Jesus Christ.
( we can become sick in our minds as the person that wants to "un-born" themselves as a human but the real us - the inner man of the heart that is in Christ - that inner man has his will entwined with God's perfect will because of union with Christ )
This is one of the reasons we need to "renew our mind" to align up with the spiritual truths that are in our new spirit in Christ.
Following God's commandments to us will be a natural result of being in Christ as we grow up in Him.
We are looking at what "we do" when we say that we lose salvation for going to heaven instead of what "Jesus has already done".
Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would be with you and in you forever. Now, is Jesus a liar? That's a question to ask ourselves.
Our Father will perfect that which concerns us for it is He that is at work in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. I'll trust His love in us to "guide us" through life. Phil. 2:13
There is also discipline of the Lord ( child-training in Greek - not "un-childing" them as children ) This proves that we are legitimate children of God.
Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
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1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. "Hate your brother" is not descriptive of children of God.
Galatians 5:21 - ..that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 John 3:9 - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Descriptive of unbelievers.
Notice in verse 9 that Paul said the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Also, notice in verse 11 that Paul said - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. The latter are not the unrighteous, but the righteous.
The problem is that there are "professing" believers who are not genuine believers mixed in with those who truly are born of God. Yet such behavior will give them away. Practicing sin and not righteousness is not descriptive of children of God (1 John 3:7-10).
Just because man has free will to choose does not mean he will choose to turn away from Christ. I have free will to choose to push my wife off a cliff, but that does not mean that I will do it. Becoming a new creation in Christ and having new desires and appetites does not mean we no longer have free will, but we have been changed. Also, God does not forsake His saints; they are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28). Jude 1 opens up with - "To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in or kept for Jesus Christ."Thanks for the clarification.............let me say, quoting you:
Not everyone in the OSAS camp is a Calvinist. I believe in free will, yet I also believe that Christians are new creations in Christ and that God preserves His saints forever.
One can not believe in "free will," if one believes that once saved, man does not have the "free will" to decide to turn from Christ, and, again embrace the sin-filled life they lived before coming to Christ. To believe that once one comes to Christ, that Christ "removes" their "free will" from them, thus "preserving them forever," is to believe in a watered down version of the teachings of Calvin. Like Christ says: "OK, NOW I GOTCHA, YOU AIN'T GOT NO CHOICE NOW BUT TO BE MINE FOREVER." Hmm.........I don't think so.......
And, then there is the issue of "good works" which those that believe in OSAS discount as being necessary, for they do not like to consider that "being obedient" to the Commandments/Will of God has anything to do with His "preserving" of us.
Good works are the necessary fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. In other words, faith is the root and good works are the fruit of salvation. No fruit would demonstrate that there is no root. Being obedient to the Commandments/Will of God is the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of saving faith in Christ, but not the means of our salvation. From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is not attained or maintained by good works.
Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our good works.
1 Peter 1:5 - We are kept or protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
For some people it's an emotional experience. They may get caught up in the moment, walk the aisle, recite the sinner's prayer, yet there was no genuine repentance/faith, so faith was never firmly rooted and established. Such a person is not saved. Saving faith is firmly rooted in Christ and continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Re: Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the church!
What do you think trying to perfect yourself through your own self effort is?? Is that sowing to the flesh or sowing to the Spirit?
What do you think trying to perfect yourself through your own self effort is?? Is that sowing to the flesh or sowing to the Spirit?
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FreeNChrist
Guest
No it is reminding them (us) of who they now are in Christ as opposed to who they used to be. Why? Because a butterfly can still grovel in the dirt like the worm it used to be, but why would it unless it did not understand that it had been transformed into a new creature and had wings to fly??
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Those in Christ used their "free will" to choose Him. Now they are His. And He will lose none who are His. That is His promise, and He always keeps His promises.