So what about the fourth commandment?
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Again you continually leave out Christ - He is the things to come. - not going back to an old system that has been done away with as it was a shadow of Christ only. Going back to the Law for living is denying the Lord Jesus Christ.
You are deserting Christ to go back to the Law of Moses. It's a goner!. Christ Himself of which the scriptures testified about is here now. Come to Him disciplemike.
I don't think the Christians here are going to desert their Lord for your religion which is a shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself. He has fulfilled all things.
As I have said and I will keep on saying it..Paul did not say in the last days people would be not be "anti-God" but that they would be "anti-Christ".
You are deserting Christ to go back to the Law of Moses. It's a goner!. Christ Himself of which the scriptures testified about is here now. Come to Him disciplemike.
I don't think the Christians here are going to desert their Lord for your religion which is a shadow of the real thing - which is Christ Himself. He has fulfilled all things.
As I have said and I will keep on saying it..Paul did not say in the last days people would be not be "anti-God" but that they would be "anti-Christ".
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the reason many will not understand is because you do not speak the same language.... if most of your life you've been taught something that has been repeated for centuries and taught form so many a pulpit that despite it being contrary to scripture its been misunderstood and too many text misapplied to foist false teaching on many, only when a person is willing to honestly question what they see as their core beliefs will they be open to the truth as taught in the bible , not mans opion of what it says, there is a reason why a love of the truth is needed for this understanding, each must and will choose what and who they believe...
the thing has come -- Christ, who is the substance. the reading of this is not "these shadows are for the body of Christ" -- but that the body, the substance, is Christ.
is He insufficient? do you think one greater than Him will come?
compare Hebrews:
the Law is a shadow; it cannot make anyone perfect. so what makes one perfect? that one sacrifice which Christ has already made has made perfect forever all who are being sanctified.
it is speaking of "things to come" from the point of view of those under the Law: that Christ was to come. if you are still under the burden of the Law, then Christ is yet to come for you. but having received Him, you also receive His death, so that the Law, which demands your death for your transgression of it, is no longer over you.
but you also receive His life - so that having peace with God, He is able to convert you to one who obediently fulfills all the righteousness of the law without being burdened by the written commands.
what is the purpose of sabbath? to teach that God is the One who sanctifies.
not being held subject to the written command, but having the substance, we celebrate our sanctification and glorify Him as the root cause of it and the prime mover of it in us.
what is the purpose of the feast of tabernacles? to remind the Israelites that they lived in tents when God took them out of Egypt, and that God was the one who delivered them.
not having the burden of the written ordinance, ((and not having our own ancestors being taken out of Egypt)) we fulfill all the righteousness of this command by recognizing and remembering that God causes us to live in the tents of our flesh after having brought us out of the death of this flesh, and knowign and glorifying Him because He is the one who has delivered us, by His own power, not ours.
what is the purpose of the Passover feast? to remind the Israelites of their deliverance from Egypt by the power of God and their redemption by their obedience in the sacrifice of lambs.
not being subject to this written ordinance but having within ourselves the substance of the shadow of the old command, we celebrate the Lord's Supper understanding that Christ is our Lamb, and by His own blood we have been delivered from death and redeemed from sin, brought out of a land of darkness into light, to follow Him in His Way.
these things are the substance: Christ.
the shadow is for those who do not have the substance.
which feast was given to Israel that we do not have the substance of in Christ, right now, today?
is He insufficient? do you think one greater than Him will come?
compare Hebrews:
For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.
(Hebrews 10:1)
(Hebrews 10:1)
the Law is a shadow; it cannot make anyone perfect. so what makes one perfect? that one sacrifice which Christ has already made has made perfect forever all who are being sanctified.
it is speaking of "things to come" from the point of view of those under the Law: that Christ was to come. if you are still under the burden of the Law, then Christ is yet to come for you. but having received Him, you also receive His death, so that the Law, which demands your death for your transgression of it, is no longer over you.
but you also receive His life - so that having peace with God, He is able to convert you to one who obediently fulfills all the righteousness of the law without being burdened by the written commands.
what is the purpose of sabbath? to teach that God is the One who sanctifies.
not being held subject to the written command, but having the substance, we celebrate our sanctification and glorify Him as the root cause of it and the prime mover of it in us.
what is the purpose of the feast of tabernacles? to remind the Israelites that they lived in tents when God took them out of Egypt, and that God was the one who delivered them.
not having the burden of the written ordinance, ((and not having our own ancestors being taken out of Egypt)) we fulfill all the righteousness of this command by recognizing and remembering that God causes us to live in the tents of our flesh after having brought us out of the death of this flesh, and knowign and glorifying Him because He is the one who has delivered us, by His own power, not ours.
what is the purpose of the Passover feast? to remind the Israelites of their deliverance from Egypt by the power of God and their redemption by their obedience in the sacrifice of lambs.
not being subject to this written ordinance but having within ourselves the substance of the shadow of the old command, we celebrate the Lord's Supper understanding that Christ is our Lamb, and by His own blood we have been delivered from death and redeemed from sin, brought out of a land of darkness into light, to follow Him in His Way.
these things are the substance: Christ.
the shadow is for those who do not have the substance.
which feast was given to Israel that we do not have the substance of in Christ, right now, today?
You people can't see how shrewdly the adversary tricked us?
He tricked us by taking away God's Holy appointed times, and gave us fake replacements, that appealed to the flesh.
Please just try to see it.
He even tricked us into thinking it does not matter if we obey God.
He whispers... "God loves you. You can decide what you want to do yourself. He will not mind. You don't need a bunch of rules."
He tricked us by taking away God's Holy appointed times, and gave us fake replacements, that appealed to the flesh.
Please just try to see it.
He even tricked us into thinking it does not matter if we obey God.
He whispers... "God loves you. You can decide what you want to do yourself. He will not mind. You don't need a bunch of rules."
please post one verse that states the law is done away with, please. if you honestly think that keeping the commands is denying the savior , then your view is in error and has no substance, please explain 2 things to me, 1) rev. 14 :12 clearly states the law of god AND the testimony of Yahshua messiah, 2) Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
please explain why our Savior would instruct His disciples to pray their flight not be on the Sabbath day? remember, He was speaking of a time AFTER his resurrection and ascention, so why would the Sabbath have any meaning at that time if it were doneaway with?
please explain why our Savior would instruct His disciples to pray their flight not be on the Sabbath day? remember, He was speaking of a time AFTER his resurrection and ascention, so why would the Sabbath have any meaning at that time if it were doneaway with?
so why do you think God is the one who should die, instead of that adulterous woman? 
He took death upon Himself as a mercy -- not as a duty -- so that putting her trust in Him, when she also dies ((as is required by the law)) she may be raised with Him as a new creation, spotless and pure.
according to the law, in this figure of marriage defiled by adultery, it is not the husband, who is pure, who must die. it is the adulterous woman.
any man who marries an adulterous woman is committing adultery. the only way that the law is satisfied is if she dies, not He.
you guys have this idea that He dies in order to remarry an adulteress, but that still makes Him an adulterer, and He Himself does not die and become a "new god" -- He is the same; God does not change. He marries a new Bride, made new in Himself by obedience to faith in the Son, taking part with Him in the cross, being reborn through His own shed blood.
He took death upon Himself as a mercy -- not as a duty -- so that putting her trust in Him, when she also dies ((as is required by the law)) she may be raised with Him as a new creation, spotless and pure.
according to the law, in this figure of marriage defiled by adultery, it is not the husband, who is pure, who must die. it is the adulterous woman.
any man who marries an adulterous woman is committing adultery. the only way that the law is satisfied is if she dies, not He.
you guys have this idea that He dies in order to remarry an adulteress, but that still makes Him an adulterer, and He Himself does not die and become a "new god" -- He is the same; God does not change. He marries a new Bride, made new in Himself by obedience to faith in the Son, taking part with Him in the cross, being reborn through His own shed blood.
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Real Christians have died to the Law "SO THAT" we could be joined to another - Jesus Christ.
Romans 7:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that youmight be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Real Christians are released from the Law and serve not in the oldness of the letter but from the newness of life in Christ alone.
Romans 7:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. All this living by the Law stuff is just a waste of time and no real Christians are going to desert their Lord and Savior for your religion of rule keeping.
John 1:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
according to the law, in this figure of marriage defiled by adultery, it is not the husband, who is pure, who must die. it is the adulterous woman.
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Hello disciplemike,
I wish that you could understand that by trusting in the works of the law, you are not trusting in the savior Yeshua. The law has to do with your own efforts as a means to gain favor with God instead of trusting in Christ as the One who met the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf. By continuing to try to meet the requirements of the law, you are not trusting in Christ. If you get accused of this allot, then maybe you need to reconsider what you have been taught. Do you close your eyes when you read the letters to the Galatians and Romans? Out of all of the letters, these two demonstrate over and over again, that salvation is by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. Let your wall down for a moment Mike and pay attention to what Paul said regarding Israel who is still under the law:
What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling,and a rock of offense;and the one who believes in Himwill never be put to shame.”l
I wish that you could understand that by trusting in the works of the law, you are not trusting in the savior Yeshua. The law has to do with your own efforts as a means to gain favor with God instead of trusting in Christ as the One who met the righteous requirements of the law on our behalf. By continuing to try to meet the requirements of the law, you are not trusting in Christ. If you get accused of this allot, then maybe you need to reconsider what you have been taught. Do you close your eyes when you read the letters to the Galatians and Romans? Out of all of the letters, these two demonstrate over and over again, that salvation is by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. Let your wall down for a moment Mike and pay attention to what Paul said regarding Israel who is still under the law:
What then will we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because their pursuit was not by faith, but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling,and a rock of offense;and the one who believes in Himwill never be put to shame.”l
Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.
The purpose of the law was :
1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20
2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8
3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11
4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24
The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.
But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.
Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross.
would it be blasphemous to sacrifice another lamb, as though our Lamb has not already been sacrificed?
so how could we be under compulsion to this obey law, and not be blaspheming by performing it?
a little help please?
it's all well and good to say "obedience! obedience!"
amen, we ought to live obediently, as we have been made obedient from the heart.
((obedient to what?))
but there are some actual specifics here, that remain completely unaddressed.
Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
(1 Corinthians 5:7)
(1 Corinthians 5:7)
so how could we be under compulsion to this obey law, and not be blaspheming by performing it?
a little help please?
it's all well and good to say "obedience! obedience!"
amen, we ought to live obediently, as we have been made obedient from the heart.
((obedient to what?))
but there are some actual specifics here, that remain completely unaddressed.
ok well it seems that many false accusations and misunderstandings are flying around this thread the fact is if you think that the 4th commandment is no longer valid, then do what seems right in your own eyes , and I will do the same, truth is its not my place or desire to convince anyone of anything . but saying others are denying the Savior , or other accusations is not very edifying is it? please forgive my strong opinions as well, sometimes my pride gets the better of me, anyway the bottom line for me is this, we all serve the same master, lets do it out of love huh?