Against OSAS: some of the best warnings to the churches!

[Grace777x70]

This scripture says that we are all going to be blotted out of the book because who here has never sinned?

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Maybe if we actually read scriptures in context with the finished work of Christ - then we will have understanding of the scriptures and not take a scripture by itself with out the whole context of the progressive revelation from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

The mixing of the "covenants" causes all sorts of D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness false teachings which rely on ourselves instead of Christ and what He has already done for us.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

James 2:19 (KJV, MBM)

I do believe that God is instructing us there that the difference between us and demons is that while both believe in Jesus Christ and know that He is the Son of God, we are different in the fact that we obey and abide in Him! They do not, nor can they.

Hebrews 5:5-11 NKJV
5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:


“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”[a]
6 As He also says in another place:


“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I do believe that God is instructing us there that the difference between us and demons is that while both believe in Jesus Christ and know that He is the Son of God, we are different in the fact that we obey and abide in Him! They do not, nor can they.

Hebrews 5:5-11 NKJV
5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him:


“You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.”[a]
6 As He also says in another place:


“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek”;
7 who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, 8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. 9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, 10 called by God as High Priest “according to the order of Melchizedek,” 11 of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

Demons don't believe in Jesus Christ. They believe that God is One.

 

[Yonah]

this debate is really of no real value, there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth, this is the same as freewill verses predestination, each "side" can provide scripture that "proves" their belief, do we have eternal security yes... can we forfeit our salvation and turn away , yes , there are text in both the OT and the NT that seem to support both views, the fact is both cannot be true some somehow there is miussunderstand or information that's not being considered, so why not approach this from and evidence standpoint and stop becoming upset or offended when someone is presenting from an opposing view, it is healthy to discuss these things maturely , after all, if it be truth, it will stand all scrutiny form the word in context, if its not we need to be mature enough to see it as it is and jettison the unsound beliefs and replace them with truth, notmy truth or yours.... THE truth, HIS, all of us here love our Savior and we need not oppose oneanother but humbly seek to learn and grow as we aled to by His Spirit.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

This scripture says that we are all going to be blotted out of the book because who here has never sinned?

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Maybe if we actually read scriptures in context with the finished work of Christ - then we will have understanding of the scriptures and not take a scripture by itself with out the whole context of the progressive revelation from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

The mixing of the "covenants" causes all sorts of D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness false teachings which rely on ourselves instead of Christ and what He has already done for us.

No
As born again believers, we understand that the Old Covenant is a shadow of what was to come in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus.
As born again believers, we understand that the non spiritual parts of the law (The Ritual and Ceremonial Law-- The Moral Law has always been spiritual) now apply spiritually as we are new creations in Christ.
As born again believers, we understand that this applies to NT believers (the church) in the essence that those who are continually disobedient and continue to sin without repenting (iniquity) need to repent and turn back to the Lord. It speaks about a heart position of having a conscience seared over with a hot iron. The condition when we do not feel that we need to repent when we sin and continue to walk in it.

The Scripture is clear that one can be blotted out of the Book of Life both in the OT, as well as in the NT understanding and covenant. Revelation 22:18-19 is a clear depiction of this. So this is how what authors in the OT said regarding being blotted out of the book of life as well as NT authors when mentioning that we can be blotted out of the book of life have the same message. One is by Old Covenant law, the other is by New Covenant spiritual application.

Be careful when one mentions DIY self righteousness and holiness together. They are not the same. Self righteousness and understanding that God calls us to walk in holiness and godly conduct are opposite statements.

 

[FreeNChrist]

No
As born again believers, we understand that the Old Covenant is a shadow of what was to come in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus.
As born again believers, we understand that the non spiritual parts of the law (The Ritual and Ceremonial Law-- The Moral Law has always been spiritual) now apply spiritually as we are new creations in Christ.
As born again believers, we understand that this applies to NT believers (the church) in the essence that those who are continually disobedient and continue to sin without repenting (iniquity) need to repent and turn back to the Lord.

The Scripture is clear that one can be blotted out of the Book of Life both in the OT, as well as in the NT understanding and covenant. Revelation 22:18-19 is a clear depiction of this. So this is how what authors in the OT said regarding being blotted out of the book of life as well as NT authors when mentioned that we can be blotted out of the book of life have the same message. One is by Old Covenant law, the other is by New Covenant spiritual application.

Be careful when one mentions DIY self righteousness and holiness together. They are not the same. Self righteousness and understanding that God calls us to walk in holiness and godly conduct are opposite statements.

The Law is the Law, and Christians are not under the Law.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

The Law is the Law, and Christians are not under the Law.

I never said that Christians were under the Law. I said that the Law applies spiritually now instead of by the letter. God has written the Law into our hearts and minds. We do not have to walk by the letter of the law, but we do walk by the law spiritually when we abide in Christ Jesus and obey what God says to us, even in that still small voice in which we can hear and obey.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I never said that Christians were under the Law. I said that the Law applies spiritually now instead of by the letter. God has written the Law into our hearts and minds. We do not have to walk by the letter of the law, but we do walk by the law spiritually when we abide in Christ Jesus and obey what God says to us, even in that still small voice in which we can hear and obey.

Very confusing language. The non spiritual "parts" of the Law now apply spiritually? What does that mean?

 

[Grace777x70]

No
As born again believers, we understand that the Old Covenant is a shadow of what was to come in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus.
As born again believers, we understand that the non spiritual parts of the law (The Ritual and Ceremonial Law-- The Moral Law has always been spiritual) now apply spiritually as we are new creations in Christ.
As born again believers, we understand that this applies to NT believers (the church) in the essence that those who are continually disobedient and continue to sin without repenting (iniquity) need to repent and turn back to the Lord. It speaks about a heart position of having a conscience seared over with a hot iron. The condition when we do not feel that we need to repent when we sin and continue to walk in it.

The Scripture is clear that one can be blotted out of the Book of Life both in the OT, as well as in the NT understanding and covenant. Revelation 22:18-19 is a clear depiction of this. So this is how what authors in the OT said regarding being blotted out of the book of life as well as NT authors when mentioning that we can be blotted out of the book of life have the same message. One is by Old Covenant law, the other is by New Covenant spiritual application.

Be careful when one mentions DIY self righteousness and holiness together. They are not the same. Self righteousness and understanding that God calls us to walk in holiness and godly conduct are opposite statements.

I just gave that scripture to show that we can take any scripture and make something out of it that we want - if we don't filter it with the finished work of Christ and the progressive revelation of Christ from the Old to the New Covenant.

D.I.Y. Self-righteousness and self-holiness are the very same thing - just packaged in a different form. We can do things in the flesh or by the Holy Spirit within that transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18.

There is a vast difference between the fruits of righteousness and holiness already in us being manifested because of His life in and through us and us in our flesh trying to do things in our own strength.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

I just gave that scripture to show that we can take any scripture and make something out of it that we want - if we don't filter it with the finished work of Christ and the progressive revelation of Christ from the Old to the New Covenant.

D.I.Y. Self-righteousness and self-holiness are the very same thing - just packaged in a different form. We can do things in the flesh or by the Holy Spirit within that transforms us as we behold the glory of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18.

There is a vast difference between the fruits of righteousness and holiness already in us being manifested because of His life in and through us and us in our flesh trying to do things in our own strength.

I meant to separate holiness/conduct as instructed and exhorted for us to partake in the bible and DIY Self-righteousness, not self-holiness. Sorry for the grammar mix-up.

 

[Grace777x70]

'
I meant to separate holiness/conduct as instructed in the bible and DIY Self-righteousness, not self-holiness. Sorry for the grammar mix-up.

No problem brother..I understand..I do it myself...All is well. We both agree on what the life of the Christian looks like when we are walking by the Spirit within us. He will be faithful to transform us as we keep our eyes on Jesus only.

 

[AmberJeanetteGardner]

Those who obey get the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Straight Bible. No need to disprove anything. [/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

Those who obey get the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Straight Bible. No need to disprove anything.

Everyone that believes and receives Christ - receives the Holy Spirit. To obey Him is to believe in what Christ has already done for us.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Here is Peter preaching the true gospel of the grace of Christ and an example of Gentiles "obeying" the mandate to believe in what Jesus has already done for all of us.

Acts 10:43-47 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

[SUP]46 [/SUP] For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,

[SUP]47 [/SUP] "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

 

[valiant]

this debate is really of no real value, there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in the middle is the truth, this is the same as freewill verses predestination, each "side" can provide scripture that "proves" their belief, do we have eternal security yes... can we forfeit our salvation and turn away , yes , there are text in both the OT and the NT that seem to support both views, the fact is both cannot be true some somehow there is miussunderstand or information that's not being considered, so why not approach this from and evidence standpoint and stop becoming upset or offended when someone is presenting from an opposing view, it is healthy to discuss these things maturely , after all, if it be truth, it will stand all scrutiny form the word in context, if its not we need to be mature enough to see it as it is and jettison the unsound beliefs and replace them with truth, notmy truth or yours.... THE truth, HIS, all of us here love our Savior and we need not oppose oneanother but humbly seek to learn and grow as we aled to by His Spirit.

The truth is

He has chosen us in Christ before the foundation of the world

Our names are written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


'All that the Father gives to Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from Heaven not to do my own will, but the will of Him Who sent

Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the Last Day,' (John 6.37-39)

But you do not believe (My Father's works) because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice and I know them, and they follow Me, and I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. My Father who gave them to Me is greater than all, and no one IS ABLE to pluck them out of the Father's hand. I and my Father are one (John 10.27-30).

Thus predestination and eternal security are Certain. Other Scriptures must fit into these, which are CLEAR.

 

[notuptome]

1PETER 4:6.
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged
according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the Spirit.

OK now how is this relevant to the subject of eternal security? Chapter 4 Peter is laying out that Christians are going to suffer afflictions because they name the name of Christ. Verse 19 confirms that even through all the suffering that we are to be at peace because it is God Who is keeping our souls.

1Pe 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Vdp]

The Law has been done away with because Jesus has fulfilled the Law. We are no longer under the Law. We are under Grace.

So why are people trying to put themselves back under the Law?

Romans 2:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

Romans 6:14
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Galatians 3:6-14
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— [SUP]14 [/SUP]in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

The believer has died to the Law - the Law has NOT died. The Law is still there but it is not for the righteous ( that is us in Christ ). The Law is still in effect for the unrighteousness ( Those not in Christ )

1 Timothy 1:5-9 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

 

[PeterJens]

D.I.Y. Self-righteousness and self-holiness are the very same thing - just packaged in a different form.

Certain believers use this language as a subtle way of condemning those walking in faith and following
Jesus.

It appears to me the fruit of this language is sin and separation from God is not the problem in the
world but attempts at religion.

This shows their background has been in churches most of their lives and they do not know the world
outside really does not care.

 

[Grace777x70]

If people feel condemned when they hear truth then it is most likely within themselves. D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness is anti-Christ in it's nature and essence.

This mindset thinks that they are righteous because of the seemingly righteous acts they do. There is only the righteousness obtained by faith in Christ's completed work.

There are "fruits of righteousness" from the life of Christ within us in our new heart created in Christ - in righteousness and holiness but that is a different subject.


Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[gb9]

Certain believers use this language as a subtle way of condemning those walking in faith and following
Jesus.

It appears to me the fruit of this language is sin and separation from God is not the problem in the
world but attempts at religion.

This shows their background has been in churches most of their lives and they do not know the world
outside really does not care.

this is actually correct, to a point. it is a half and half problem, with 1 half being sin, separation, not knowing God, the other half being the crazy , at times wrong, and sometimes just plain stupid things that come from churches.

we need , ( and I , others on here, and the church I go to tries to do this ) , is to reconcile these two things. show non-believers that God loves them, and wants them to believe In Him, and His Son, and save them from sin, and get the churches to stop bashing , false teaching, and get out, get your hands dirty, and HELP LOST PEOPLE, not condem them.