So what about the fourth commandment?

[Wall]

We are to eat from the tree of Life now and that tree is Christ - Himself.

REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Yup. And if you want the RIGHT to the tree of life. Keep the 10 commandments

 

[Grace777x70]

REVELATION 22 [13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[14] BLESSED ARE THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, THAT THEY MAY HAVE RIGHT TO THE TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.[15] For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


Yup. And if you want the RIGHT to the tree of life. Keep the 10 commandments

Again - John told us exactly what God's commandments in the "New Covenant" are - you are constantly forgetting Christ in all this law keeping nonsense. The Cross changed everything. We live by His life in us now - not by the Old Covenant.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

What you are doing by going back to the Law for living is that you are trying to establish your own righteousness.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[UnderGrace]

Great use of scripture! I created a document of pretty much every scripture that proclaims that we are saved by grace through faith apart from the works of the law. Those who proclaim the law must be reading Galatians and Romans with their eyes closed.

Or maybe they glued the pages together.

 

[UnderGrace]

The 4th commandment is the test commandment. Hypocritical people cant fake this one by just saying they are believers(By their fruit you shall know them).

People are presumptuous and stiff necked and value their presumptuous opinions above God's commanded instruction.

Exodys 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. 5And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.

By their fruit you shall know them).

Well what is exactly their fruit? Keeping the Sabbath? That is not what Jesus taught.

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart HIS MOUTH SPEAKETH. (Luke 6:43-45)


This is what fruit means in this passage. It is doctrine and what that doctrine produces (fruit). There are only two ways to see false prophets. One, if they prophesy something and it does not come to pass then they are not from God (Duet 18:22).

The second area is “what is coming out of their mouths”.

If you study your Bible, you can tell someone is false by the words they speak. That is all that were are told to inspect nothing else!

Bad doctrine, or false doctrine, will not produce for the kingdom but maybe more law keepers?

For example, what type of fruit were the Pharisees producing?


“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matt 23:15).

 

[Wall]

For example, what type of fruit were the Pharisees producing?

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matt 23:15).

None

MATTHEW 23 [1] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, [2] Saying, THE SCRIBES AND THE PHARISEES SIT IN MOSES' SEAT: [3] ALL THEREFORE WHATSOEVER THEY BID YOU OBSERVE, THAT OBSERVE AND DO; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. [4] For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. [5] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,


We are to observe and do what they say. Their problem is they say and do not.

 

[Wall]

For example, what type of fruit were the Pharisees producing?


“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matt 23:15).

MATTHEW 5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [20] For I say unto you, That EXCEPT YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL EXCEED THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The Word of God is so great. He knew that the illegalists would come along. Right after Jesus says not one jot or title will pass from the law He talks of those that want to practice to break His commandments. So perfect

 

[Wall]

Bad doctrine, or false doctrine, will not produce for the kingdom but maybe more law keepers?

Whose spreading false doctrine around here?

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] FOR EVERY ONE THAT USETH MILK IS UNSKILFUL IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: FOR HE IS A BABE. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The above new testament scripture tells us we should be teachers of the word but also tells us everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word.

ISAIAH 28 [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

In Hebrews 5 the scripture tells us we should be teachers of the Word but we dont get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. Who are these milk drinkers (verse 12) that dont understand doctrine? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing. And yes, the milk drinkers do refuse to hear that scripture.

GOT MILK?

 

[Grace777x70]

Those that are babies in Christ are those that are not skilled in the "word of righteousness".

This is Christ's righteousness - not us trying to establish our own righteousness by what we do or don't do by "keeping" Old Covenant laws. We live now as Christians by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus and the law of love. This fulfills all the law because we are in Christ.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Grace777x70]

It didn't take long for the Judaziers to come in and pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ. They were in Jerusalem when Paul went to visit in Acts 21:20

Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;

Paul had the Judaizers come in after he preached to pervert the gospel of Christ. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to combat this. We too have modern day Judaziers that come and try to get Christians to desert Christ to go back following the Law. It's an anti-Christ belief system not based on faith in Christ's finished work alone.

Christ is our life now. For we have died and our life in hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3

Going back to live by any commandments in the Law instead of relying on Christ's life inside of us is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord. Romans 7:1-6.

We have died to the Law so that we would live joined to Another - Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Wall]

It didn't take long for the Judaziers to come in and pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ. They were in Jerusalem when Paul went to visit in Acts 21:20

Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;

I knew it. I just knew it.

Acts 21:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

I simply knew it. Posting scripture that talking about circumsicion and applying that scripture to the 10 commandments. How many times are you guys gonna get caught trying to decieve

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Keep Gods 10 commandments

 

[Grace777x70]

I knew it. I just knew it.

Acts 21:19-21 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

I simply knew it. Posting scripture that talking about circumsicion and applying that scripture to the 10 commandments. How many times are you guys gonna get caught trying to decieve

1 COR. 7 [19] Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Keep Gods 10 commandments

Being circumcised is part of the Law - to disobey one law is to break them all James said.

Also it says in Acts 21:21 that Paul taught to forsake Moses and to "not walk after the customs" of the Jewish religion. You can't pick and choose from the Law - it's all or nothing. Law-keepers have a very low opinion of the Law because they make them watered down so that they can appear to be "do-able".

God's commandments in the New Covenant are shown in John's epistle and they are not the ten commandments. That's the ministry of death. We live now in Christ with newness of life. His life fulfills the law. We live by Him now.

Christians are not going to desert Christ to follow after the Law for life. This is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord.

All the Law was a mere shadow of the real thing which is Christ - Himself.

Going back to the Law including the ten commandments for living is like having a picture of your spouse that she gave you when you were away. When she came to be with you - you still go back and live with the picture instead of her. You are doing the same thing when we go back to the Law for life. Christ is our life now.

Here are God's commandments in the New Covenant. The Old Covenant is now obsolete and the true Christian is dead to the Law and is joined to Christ now. We are not going to fall for any Judaizers to try to get us to desert our Lord Jesus Christ for the Law.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[Wall]

The Old Covenant is now obsolete

Scripture please

 

[Grace777x70]

Scripture please

It's in the book of Hebrews which was written before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. This book was written to a Jewish audience who knew all about the Law like good Jewish people do as it was their religion from when they were babies.

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

In 70 AD - the roman general Titus came in and ended the temple sacrifices and thus the Jewish religion came to an end for good.

We live entirely now in the New Covenant only. There is no mixture to be done by mixing law and grace. They are against each other. The Law is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The New Covenant which is Christ Himself - He is the tree of Life. We are to eat of Him only and not the old letter of the law but to walk in newness of the spirit. We are joined to Christ now as one spirit. We live by His life inside of us alone.


This book was written before the destruction of the temple as foretold by Jesus because the Jewish people rejected the Messiah.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Soooo.

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

Your saying these saints of God wont make it to the kingdom because they observe to keep Gods 10 commandments. I guess your entidled to your own opinion.

Hello Wall,

We must always read the entire context in order to understand what is being referred to. That said, here is the scripture that prompts the following reference about the patience of the Saints and the commandments that they keep:

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus."

In the scripture above, an angel will give a warning during that time regarding what will happen to those who worship the beast, worship his image and who receive his mark. Therefore, the patient endurance and the keeping of His commands are related to that scripture. The commands would then be to love the Lord their God above all and be faithful to Christ even at the cost of their own lives based on the scripture. No where in the scripture is it mentioned that the keeping of God's commands is in reference to the observing the ten commandments or the law of Moses. The commands that are being spoken of would have to be related to what the saints will have to endure in order to remain faithful to Christ and to the word of God.

In suggesting that the commands of God in the scripture are referring to the ten commandments is a perfect example of taking something out of context.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It didn't take long for the Judaziers to come in and pervert the gospel of the grace of Christ. They were in Jerusalem when Paul went to visit in Acts 21:20

Acts 21:20 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law;

Paul had the Judaizers come in after he preached to pervert the gospel of Christ. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to combat this. We too have modern day Judaziers that come and try to get Christians to desert Christ to go back following the Law. It's an anti-Christ belief system not based on faith in Christ's finished work alone.

Christ is our life now. For we have died and our life in hidden with Christ in God. Col. 3:3

Going back to live by any commandments in the Law instead of relying on Christ's life inside of us is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord. Romans 7:1-6.

We have died to the Law so that we would live joined to Another - Jesus Christ our Lord.

View attachment 157596

Good day Grace777x70,


That illustration of Christ, the believer and the law, depicts the situation perfectly.

 

[Ahwatukee]

MATTHEW 5 [17] Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Hello Wall,

I don't know why you who promote the law continue to use the above scripture, as it does not support your position. So in the scripture, Jesus is saying that he didn't come to cast the law aside, that is, to do away with it, but he came to fulfill it i.e. to meet the laws requirements, to bring it to its completion. When Jesus says "don't think that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets" your error is that you interpret it as though Jesus came to perpetuate the law, i.e. to keep it going, which is not the case. The meaning of him fulfilling the law, is that he met its requirements and therefore brought it to its end as completed. He did this on our behalf.

By the way, every jot and tittle of the law has been accomplished through Christ, for he kept the law perfectly. Unless you and the other law keepers are going to take credit by telling us that you keep every jot and tittle of the law by your own efforts.

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually I have MEAT, because I have moved on from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant and the the elemental understanding of salvation to the deeper understanding of the finished work of the cross and Jesus being my Sabbath rest.

I find it rather ironic that a you speak of feeding on milk as opposed to the meat, in light of the fact that the writer of Hebrews was dealing with this with the very people, the Hebrews, who were having a hard time leaving the law and its system behind wanting to revert to Judaism.

Take the writers advice and move onto maturity leaving dead works behind.

In Hebrews 6:1, 2 we are told the definition of “milk.”
[SUP]1[/SUP] Therefore, leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [SUP]2[/SUP] of instruction about washings [“baptisms”], and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and aionian judgment.

Whose spreading false doctrine around here?

HEBREWS 5 [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] FOR EVERY ONE THAT USETH MILK IS UNSKILFUL IN THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS: FOR HE IS A BABE. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The above new testament scripture tells us we should be teachers of the word but also tells us everyone that uses milk is unskilful in the word.

ISAIAH 28 [9] WHOM SHALL HE TEACH KNOWLEDGE? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? THEM THAT ARE WEANED FROM THE MILK, and drawn from the breasts.[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[12] To whom he said, THIS IS THE REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and THIS IS THE REFRESHING: yet they would not hear.

In Hebrews 5 the scripture tells us we should be teachers of the Word but we dont get it, we are still just babes, milk drinkers. In Isaiah we see that those whom God will teach knowledge and whom he shall make to understand doctrine are those who are weaned from the milk. Who are these milk drinkers (verse 12) that dont understand doctrine? To whom he said this is the rest and the refreshing, but they refused to hear. Rest? Refreshing?

EXODUS 31 [15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and ON THE SEVENTH DAY HE RESTED, AND WAS REFRESHED.

Heres a scripture that speaks of a rest and a refreshing. And yes, the milk drinkers do refuse to hear that scripture.

GOT MILK?

 

[beta]

Hi, I am new here - and maybe I can bring something new to the table ! are you prepared to change your mind ?
It seems there is an awful lot of MIS-understanding regarding the Law. When we hear of it having been 'nailed to the cross....just which Law is it speaking of ? there were many laws in the OT !

 

[HS]

60 pages!! WOW.
I think i posted at the start of this thread. You must all have a lot to say.

 

[Grace777x70]

60 pages shows the confusion there is about Christ has fulfilled the Law including all the 10 commandments. It also shows there are people not understanding the shadow of the Law which Christ is the real substance. This also shows that we really don't have a revelation of the Lord's work being finished on the cross and resurrection to bring us new life in Him and that we died to the Law so that we could be joined to Another - Himself.

This also shows that there are Judaziers amongst us trying to get us to go back to the Law and desert Christ Himself. Paul had to deal with these types in Galatians and he was not soft on them.