Gift of Tongues: Contrary to Pentecost

BenFTW · Aug 10, 2016

I don't know if it brings a "stronger spiritual presence", but I have felt the Lord's presence when singing in tongues. As you may know, when we worship the Lord there are at times He lets us feel His tangible presence. People often feel goosebumps, or tingling all over their bodies. That has happened. Sometimes with an interpreter present and in fellowship with the Holy Spirit I have spoken in tongues and they interpreted and you can feel the Lord's presence.

The uplifting that happens with tongues for me, is not so much when I am alone speaking in tongues as when I am with an interpreter getting the understanding of what I am speaking, or in fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

Yep we can never prove something to a skeptic mind. We need faith and belief. I think that's why Scripture says a carnal mind is an enemy to the ways of God.

The same way people ask us how can God be proved etc. You try, but to the person who doesn't want to believe, nothing will do. It's Holy Spirit who teaches and guides us. Feel free to pray it over with Him.

In answer to your questions, you're calling people a liar. That there is some sort of hidden agenda here. That should cause you to deeply think about your bias. You're also needing proof even though it's quite clearly in Scripture as we've shown.

I'm fine when you say tongues aren't for you, but I think you go too far when you say...

1. People are lying
2. There is some conspiracy
3. Ignore Scriptures that point to something different
4. And say tongues isn't for anyone

One thing I haven't seen you say, is that tongues are demonic, so that's awesome.

Because that type of talk messes people up who love the Lord, but have different experiences.

As far as logical answers to your questions, I offer the following. YOU try to talk that fast even though you do know English. I can't do it. That girl talks faster than me. And I only know one language. When she first starts speaking in tongues it's so fast and flowing, it's exactly what happens to me when I pray.

And here's another answer: the entire time what is the girl praising? JESUS. Jesus is the word. He is the Star. He is the Life. The word to your life. And I think that's beautiful.

And it's also Scriptural:

Acts 10:46 for they heard them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. Then Peter answered,

Jesus:

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Not old tongues, not known tongues, but new tongues. And that Polish girl had no idea she was even speaking in a real language. She was probably as shocked as they were.

C.

UnderGrace said:

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

GuessWho said:

You confuse spiritual discernment with your carnal logic, skepticism, suspicion, and unbelief.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

UnderGrace said:

These are great questions.

Tongues is for speaking to God. Also we know the Spirit speaks through us. So it's the Spirit speaking to the Spirit praying the perfect will of God.

When people are around Paul's argument is that why pray in tongues when no one can understand you? How is that love? How is that building people up? And if you don't have love you have nothing! So then I'll show you a better way...

Pursue love and desire spiritual gifts.

So the effect is loving people is prophesying, this is building up the church. And through it people are built up and unbelievers hearts are revealed which shows God is among us.

As far as why pray in tongues? It takes me into a deeper connection with God, when I don't know what to pray, I let the Spirit pray, and sometimes I get super attacked and when I pray in tongues it breaks off really quickly... sometimes I'm praising God with English language and it's just not really connecting my heart... so I pray in tongues and it's my heart just pouring out praise to God!

1 Co 14:15 What then shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

It does bringing me into a deeper place spiritually when I pray in tongues. Especially if I pray for awhile. It gets really really deep and my heart feels so connected with His. One thing that's interesting is Paul said he prayed in tongues more than all the rest of them:

1 Co 14:8 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

BenFTW said:

Demi777 · Aug 10, 2016

Okay people lets see what the bible says about interpretations
1Cor 14:13
Therefore let him that speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

So when someone prays in tounges, just pray for the interpretation and you will get it. Jesh why so much fuss

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

Sometimes I feel like I don't articulate myself as well as I'd like to. I don't think my precise calling is teaching, so I think sometimes I don't always connect with people I'd like to.

So here is a great commentary on 1 Co 14 that I pretty much agree with:
1 Corinthians 14 - Tongues, Prophecy and Public Worship

Magenta · Aug 10, 2016

Cee said:

I have not read everything you have posted, but I must say that of what I have read, your heart for God comes across quite well, and since it is connecting on the other side of monitors through the heart and love of Jesus Christ our Lord, that is a rather important connection to make

Cee · Aug 10, 2016

Magenta said:

Thank you that means a lot to me! I am still learning and growing every single day. For the longest time, I didn't know how to connect with people. I lived in my own little spiritual bubble.

When I was a kid, I would continually ask my mom what the meaning of life was and why were on the Earth. She thought I was an alien child lol. I didn't know how to click well with other kids because I was so deep. And my mom didn't know how to relate with me at times either. So I pray constantly to be and seek to be as articulative as possible, but also to express my heart not just my logical understandings. I have a very high value of being connected with God and connecting to other people. And my prayer is that after I walk away they will be connected to Him in a greater way for themselves.

Magenta · Aug 10, 2016

Cee said:

Thank you that means a lot to me! I am still learning and growing every single day. For the longest time, I didn't know how to connect with people. I lived in my own little spiritual bubble.

When I was a kid, I would continually ask my mom what the meaning of life was and why were on the Earth. She thought I was an alien child lol. I didn't know how to click well with other kids because I was so deep. And my mom didn't know how to relate with me at times either. So I pray constantly and seek to be as articulative, but also to express my heart not just my logical understandings. I have a very high value of being connected with God and connecting to other people. And my prayer is that after I walk away they will be connected to Him in a greater way for themselves.

God is answering your prayers and it is a beautiful thing to behold

RickyZ · Aug 11, 2016

Cee said:

None of us humans do. That's why God says 'let Me do the talking'

notuptome · Aug 11, 2016

RickyZ said:

That's why you have your bible. Gods word right in your lap. The bread of life. Water that you never need to thirst again. That's internal stuff and not window dressing.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Aug 11, 2016

Cee said:

That is dishonest. Parsing Acts with Mark is downright dishonest exegesis.

Basing doctrine on the long ending of Mark 16 without strong scriptural support from the other gospels is unwise. It demonstrates little respect for Gods word and a disregard for contextual integrity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

garee · Aug 11, 2016

Not a salvation issue but one that might help us hear God who has no form better.

Experiencing things outwardly( walking by sight) is not the validator of faith (things not seen) God’s word is.

I would think bottom line is as we are informed in 2Corinthians 5:7...below. It alone is the key that the gates of hell could never prevail against.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles so that blessing using Paul was needed more than to one who did not have a multitude of different tongues to reason out the gospel according to the hearing of Christ’s faith .The apostle to the Hebrew did not need an interpretation as much as another.

Tongues are hearing the interpretation of another as well as them hearing God though the other person. Gifts are always twofold in the way coming from the same mutual comforting source of faith, Christ.

It cannot be one sided where the language of one is understood and the other not given an understanding. It’s not communing in what some call gibberish.

I would think from my experiences to find the key is; what does it mean to walk by faith (the unseen). Not mixing faith, the unseen when hearing simply shows one does not have the spiritual understanding?

Seeing the opposite is rather walking by sight after experiences. It is the formula of subtlety which the father of lies used in the garden . When he who has no form used and outward form of a serpent which was changed as it seems legs or other means for walking were removed. Satan who has no form used experience to draw Adam and Eve away from the faith that came from hearing God who has no form.

God did not want them to learn by experience (walking by sight) as to the end of the experiences .What he did want is for them to obey His word in respect to that not seen.

Studying to try and perhaps get a better understanding what it means; “but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” can help us to draw closer to God .

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. Heb 4:1

It would seem the new gospel today is; have you had an experience? .... use it as if it was understanding by faith (the unseen)

Makes me wonder that when he does come will he find faith? or will it be like in the time of Noah. This is when men used their own heart the seat of imagination as a source of unseen faith verifying it according to their own experiences..

Gen 6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

UnderGrace · Aug 11, 2016

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. Romans 8:7

IN context to be carnally minded simply means that you are minding the things of the flesh, in other words it is a selfish state of mind, it is the choice of the mind to live for self-gratification.

What you have stated is not supported from even a basic understanding of being carnally minded.

As well Scripture implores to test the spirits,

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 1:4

You make it personal once again, I am looking at scripture seeing what it teaches and seeing if it lines up with what others teach.

To say someone is lying means that they have knowledge of the truth and deliberately promote falsehood.

That is a value judgement on the person, I do not believe I have ever made that value judgement on the persons' motives or level of knowledge.

There are people that are just deceived and thereby unknowingly promote deception and there are those that know and do it deliberately, all I care about is having people think critically against scripture and seeing if it lines up.

I am only focusing on the gift of tongues not other miracles and signs and wonders.

Well that does not make it authentic.

God created us as rational beings (albeit we are in fallen state so that is fallen as well) however I do not suspend understanding just to accept something as truth. If I mix baking soda and vinegar together I have a chemical reaction, I can study the science behind that chemical reaction.

The same with this tongues phenomena, language does have science behind it as well, linguistics is the study of language. There are been several researchers from various universities that have traveled the world researching this phenomena to see if it is indeed a new language.

Based on what we know about patterns of language (no matter what language in the world, people at the doctoral level have studied many many different languages) it has been concluded time and time again that this language of glossolalia has no internal organization and therefore cannot be deemed a language.

God gave us the gift of language it is hard wired into our brain, all languages have patterns and organization because it reflects who He is. He is not a God of disorganization and chaos.

I will deal with your scriptural part in my next post.

BenFTW · Aug 11, 2016

UnderGrace, you still haven't addressed the OP, the first post. Do you have a rebuttal, or do concede that there is a difference between the tongues at Pentecost that were spoken and heard by others in their dialect and the gift of tongues spoken of in Corinthians? Basically, that the gift of tongues isn't just the supernatural ability to speak in another person's language who is present that you're trying to minister to. That is one use, but not the only use of the gift of tongues. Agree?

UnderGrace · Aug 11, 2016

BenFTW said:

I will get to it and I am working on it..

I am being distracted by other comments and other discussions and there are not enough hours in my day.

RickyZ · Aug 11, 2016

UnderGrace said:

Every 24 hour day includes 48 hours of stuff to deal with

notuptome · Aug 11, 2016

BenFTW said:

UnderGrace, you still haven't addressed the OP, the first post. Do you have a rebuttal, or do concede that there is a difference between the tongues at Pentecost that were spoken and heard by others in their dialect and the gift of tongues spoken of in Corinthians? Basically, that the gift of tongues isn't just the supernatural ability to speak in another person's language who is present that you're trying to minister to. That is one use, but not the only use of the gift of tongues. Agree?

Are you making this up? You are not getting this from the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

garee · Aug 11, 2016

You seem to miss the fact that we are to walk by faith, the unseen, and not by experience verified by what we do as that seen.

The other use is of the same gift God that gives them was the understanding from them . Understanding is a two way street . Tongues like prophecy works two ways mutually comforting each other.

There is no outward sign we can perform that can be called a gift. We walk by a living hope in the unseen. To walk by experience ( walk by sight) in order to validate a person has received a spiritual gift is to hope amiss .for who hopes for what they already know they have. If any man has not the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God ..they simply are not believers as Christians

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And it His Spirit that witnesses to ours that we are children of faith .It can give us a inward desire to know him more an more.

We walk by faith not by experiencing that in which the eyes see or ears hear coming from another authority other than God , Tongues is not of men .. But is of God as he gives us ears to hear we can believe him..

The Son of man, in the person of Jesus Christ shows us that experience as that seen or heard is not the validator of God's unseen truth, as it is written alone is .

And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan:for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and Mat 4:3

Gift of Tongues: Contrary to Pentecost

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